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ID on this slender vac

Started by Innes Cate, Jul 04 2012 09:22 AM

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21 replies to this topic

#1 Innes Cate

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LocationTauranga, New Zealand

Posted 04 July 2012 - 09:22 AM

I have tried numerous avenues including FPN to identify this pen but to date I don't have a definative answer to what model it is, so you folk are my last resort!

I have acquired this very slender Emerald Pearl Vacumatic in New Zealand with the tassie and black jewel missing from the blind cap. What's interesting is that its a very slim long fountain pen. My research shows this pen to be much longer than the debutantes which the PARKER VACUMATIC book puts at 116mm capped.

The length of Cap Clip is much shorter than the normal being 27mm and has no blue diamond.
Cap has three narrow bands, each of the same width.

Length of pen capped (without tassie & jewel) = 121mm (4.75") so estimate 125mm with tassie & jewel.
Diameter of Barrel at widest point = 10.8mm
Diameter of Cap = 12.0mm

Description on Barrel = MADE IN CANADA PARKER VACUMATIC .0. REG.T.M.S. N0.38982
Description on flexible Nib = 14K PARKER VACUMATIC REG.T.M. Any other imprint is obscured by the section
Under side of feeder = W
The colours of the cap, blind cap and barrel all match very well giving no indicated of a parts pen.

The diameter of the blind cap is for an 8mm tassie with a black jewel which I just cannot seem to hunt down even as a parts option, so any help here is also appreciated.

It's clear that it is a Canadian Slender but Slender what? The 125mm length is the stumbling block?

So what do the Vac experts think? I have attached some photos that may assist.

Innes

004 (6).jpg 73.58KB 67 downloads

That's it sitting between the 3 ring Standard and the Major

006 (7).jpg 31.75KB 61 downloads

007 (5).jpg 37.17KB 44 downloads

008 (4).jpg 33.58KB 58 downloads

Is the high rise black jewel a clue?

Attached Files

Vac Blind Cap V3.jpg 33.23KB 51 downloads

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#2 delica

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Posted 04 July 2012 - 03:45 PM

Should it not have a lockdown filler and therefore short blind cap? /guess

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#3 wekiva98

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Posted 05 July 2012 - 04:20 AM

At first glance, it looks like a mid-1930s slender with a later replacement clip. That's why the jewel is too wide. Then I see the long blind cap and speedline filler, which also don't belong on a first-gen slender. And then I start to wonder if the barrel is too short, meaning that could be a later replacement, too. (The "0" in the imprint would seem to confirm that.) It's a pretty little pen but it looks as though it had a lot of pieces replaced years after leaving the factory. Everything matches because Parker was still making pens with the same emerald green celluloid.

Edited by wekiva98, 05 July 2012 - 04:48 AM.

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#4 david i

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Posted 05 July 2012 - 05:01 AM

Hi Guys,

I'll post on this by tomorrow. Couple challenges with this pen, and it touches on a little known variant, though I'm not yet wholly sure this is that. Haven't had time to absorb the pen and to do the comparison with my controls in my collection.

And Innes, do try our GALLERY tab at top of page. Unlike uploads to posts as you did (which are capped at 500kb and must be deleted before more can be added), GALLERY gives each member 25MB storage in personal Album (you create your own Album) or images can be stored in key pre-made Albums. I believe there is ALbum for Vacs. Once in Album, the "BBC" code (one text line) can be copied and just pasted into any post, making full size picture that will be there forever.

Very powerful once you play with it a bit.

regards

david

David R. Isaacson MD. Website: VACUMANIA.com for quality old pens with full warranty.
Email: isaacson@frontiernet.net

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#5 penmanila

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Posted 05 July 2012 - 07:30 AM

hi, innes, welcome to FPB, and i'm glad you ported over the question here. (innes and i have been mulling over this mystery on FPN, without much success.) i think i mentioned there that this had all the features of a streamlined standard, except that it was too short for that (and the clip belongs to a debutante), but on the other hand it was also too long for a slender. so a transitional or variant vac might not be out of the question. awaiting david i's read with much anticipation

Check out my pens here and my blog here.

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#6 Innes Cate

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Posted 05 July 2012 - 08:10 AM

I'll post on this by tomorrow. Couple challenges with this pen, and it touches on a little known variant, though I'm not yet wholly sure this is that. Haven't had time to absorb the pen and to do the comparison with my controls in my collection.

And Innes, do try our GALLERY tab at top of page. Unlike uploads to posts as you did (which are capped at 500kb and must be deleted before more can be added), GALLERY gives each member 25MB storage in personal Album (you create your own Album) or images can be stored in key pre-made Albums. I believe there is ALbum for Vacs. Once in Album, the "BBC" code (one text line) can be copied and just pasted into any post, making full size picture that will be there forever.

Very powerful once you play with it a bit.

regards

david

Thanks for pointing me to the Gallery - I'll go explore...and look forward to seeing your findings on the vac

Innes

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#7 Innes Cate

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Posted 14 July 2012 - 01:00 AM

Hi David

Have you been able to solve the puzzle of what variant this slender pen is comparing with your control pens?

Innes

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#8 david i

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Posted 14 July 2012 - 02:08 AM

Hi David

Have you been able to solve the puzzle of what variant this slender pen is comparing with your control pens?

Innes

Hi Innes,

Apologies that I have not yet examined the key pens in collection. I headed out of town to hospital work and didn't have chance yet. I will without doubt examine upon my return next week. I'm interested to sort this out.

David R. Isaacson MD. Website: VACUMANIA.com for quality old pens with full warranty.
Email: isaacson@frontiernet.net

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#9 david i

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Posted 25 July 2012 - 05:27 AM

Finally catching up, and still need to spend some time figuring if your pen is a special sort of mixture/franken-pen.

Still, there are couple cases in play that come to mind, Vacs that are kosher.

If these were standard diameter pens, not little ladies' pens, we'd be considering:

A: The Streamlined Standard: essentially a 2nd-3rd gen Vac Major but with the triple cap-bands generally associated with 1st generation pens.

B: 1.5th Generation pens: What often seem to be, but are not, parts mixes. Extra long standard-girth pens are found that seem to be first generation pens with the short lockdown-fill blind cap replaced by long 2nd generation (speed line) cap. Standards and Shadow_Wave Juniors are so found. But, these are not mixes. Rather the barrel is of special length. Shorter than a lockdown Standard and longer than a Speedline Major, giving an extra long pen, but not as long as it would be if just a cheat and blind cap replacement. Too, date codes tend to be late for first gen Standards

So...

Let's consider three short ladies' pens. At left is a mint grade lockdown first gen Slender from 1933-1938 in general. In middle is a brown Debutante from 1938, pre-blue diamond, matching gripping section, speed line filler. Finally, a Canadian pen in black, same shape as middle pen. Hmmm...

More to follow in coming days.

regards

David

David R. Isaacson MD. Website: VACUMANIA.com for quality old pens with full warranty.
Email: isaacson@frontiernet.net

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#10 david i

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Posted 02 August 2012 - 07:18 PM

Here's a shot of three pens with blind caps partially removed

At left in red, typical first generation Vacumatic Slender

Middle, typical 2nd gen Vacumatic Debutante (relatively early in that run, with striped section in USA

Right, off catalogue (more or less) Streamlined Slender, essentially a triple-band Debutante.

Posted Image

regards

david

David R. Isaacson MD. Website: VACUMANIA.com for quality old pens with full warranty.
Email: isaacson@frontiernet.net

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#11 Innes Cate

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Posted 03 August 2012 - 08:05 AM

[quote name='david i' date='03 August 2012 - 07:18 AM' timestamp='1343935130' post='16478']
Here's a shot of three pens with blind caps partially removed

At left in red, typical first generation Vacumatic Slender

Middle, typical 2nd gen Vacumatic Debutante (relatively early in that run, with striped section in USA

Right, off catalogue (more or less) Streamlined Slender, essentially a triple-band Debutante.

Posted Image

regards

david

David

Very intriguing ... narrowing to the two Debutantes -so how does the length and barrel diameter measure up to the green slender in question? The unveiling of the filler and section maybe a further clue!

Meaning of "off catalogue (more or less)??

Innes

Great photos and pens

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#12 david i

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Posted 04 August 2012 - 12:41 AM

David

Very intriguing ... narrowing to the two Debutantes -so how does the length and barrel diameter measure up to the green slender in question? The unveiling of the filler and section maybe a further clue!

Meaning of "off catalogue (more or less)??

Innes

Great photos and pens

The 3-band pen that is Debutante (2nd generation, long metal filler and long blind cap, streamline cap) is not documented. Debs have the cap band shown in middle. I believe all I've seen of the triple-band deb (streamlined Slender) are Canadian.

Here are uncapped pens.

Posted Image

regards

david

David R. Isaacson MD. Website: VACUMANIA.com for quality old pens with full warranty.
Email: isaacson@frontiernet.net

Posted Image

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#13 Innes Cate

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Posted 23 August 2012 - 08:35 AM

David

From the last photograph it appears my vac pen best matches the centre pen and the cap best matches the pen of the right but with a shorter clip.

You're holding back on the diameter and length comparison so I still cannot see a conclusion on the ID, yes its Canadian but some of the answer maybe in the filler type?

Innes

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#14 david i

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Posted 23 August 2012 - 09:03 AM

David

From the last photograph it appears my vac pen best matches the centre pen and the cap best matches the pen of the right but with a shorter clip.

You're holding back on the diameter and length comparison so I still cannot see a conclusion on the ID, yes its Canadian but some of the answer maybe in the filler type?

Innes

Hi Innes,

I'd wanted to build up to showing a couple quirky pens, including some that are mixes I made myself. Between Washington DC Pen Show and crazy shifts at hospital I was distracted

I will post another picture next couple days at latest, then try to sort out everything.

regards

david

David R. Isaacson MD. Website: VACUMANIA.com for quality old pens with full warranty.
Email: isaacson@frontiernet.net

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#15 david i

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Posted 23 August 2012 - 01:20 PM

test

David R. Isaacson MD. Website: VACUMANIA.com for quality old pens with full warranty.
Email: isaacson@frontiernet.net

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#16 Innes Cate

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Posted 09 September 2012 - 12:59 AM

Hi David

Are you able to establish a conclusion as to an ID on this variant?

Regards
Innes

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#17 david i

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Posted 10 September 2012 - 08:12 AM

Hi David

Are you able to establish a conclusion as to an ID on this variant?

Regards
Innes

Hi,

Tonight is my last night shift this run. I have couple more pics to show then will try to draw conclusion. Figure tuesday night or so.

regards

david

David R. Isaacson MD. Website: VACUMANIA.com for quality old pens with full warranty.
Email: isaacson@frontiernet.net

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#18 parkercollector.com

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Posted 10 September 2012 - 02:59 PM

I'd say it's pertinent to call it a Stremlined Slender.
There's a more common variant referred to as the Stremlined Standard, and there are some Streamlined Oversizes out there also.

Here's a Vac comparison sheet I made some time back
#15 is a Streamlined Standard and #16 is the Streamlined Slender

Unfortunately I'm still looking for a Streamlined Oversize.
I'm sure David will have a better explanation and much better photos!

/T
Posted Image

Edited by parkercollector.com, 10 September 2012 - 03:00 PM.

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#19 Innes Cate

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Posted 11 September 2012 - 08:20 AM

[quote name='parkercollector.com' date='11 September 2012 - 02:59 AM' timestamp='1347289171' post='17691']
I'd say it's pertinent to call it a Stremlined Slender.
There's a more common variant referred to as the Stremlined Standard, and there are some Streamlined Oversizes out there also.

Here's a Vac comparison sheet I made some time back
#15 is a Streamlined Standard and #16 is the Streamlined Slender

Unfortunately I'm still looking for a Streamlined Oversize.
I'm sure David will have a better explanation and much better photos!

Thanks for the photos - I estimate #16 to be around 115mm. This one of mine is 125mm - long and slender!

Edited by Innes Cate, 15 September 2012 - 04:59 AM.