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Waterman Heavy Silver Overlay - alas no cap


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#1 m1928

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Posted 17 May 2013 - 08:48 PM

I was asked to post a picture of a waterman eye dropper I bought last year.
nice flexible nib - 5
Incredibly thick sterling silver overlay

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#2 pen piddler

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Posted 17 May 2013 - 09:48 PM

That's a real beauty!

#3 Josephine

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Posted 17 May 2013 - 10:55 PM

Wow, never seen one like it. Too bad the cap is missing. :(

#4 david i

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Posted 18 May 2013 - 12:25 AM

I was asked to post a picture of a waterman eye dropper I bought last year.
nice flexible nib - 5
Incredibly thick sterling silver overlay


Hi M,

Take deep breath on this one.

While I'm not up on my floriculture, this falls into the Heavy Rose/Heavy Orchid family of Waterman overlays. And recognizing that I play a bit less with this sort than with 1920's-1930's "Big Five" pens, I suggest still that this sort is among the most desirable (recognizing subjectivity) and valuable of all Watermans.

While I don't recall if these should have a hefty #5 nib (for some vague reason, just having awakened and not having pulled yet any resources for a serach) as I thought they were mode; 214, the barrel of the pen looks to be the real deal.

The good-ish news is that this pen I believe never had a matching cap. The pens were half-overlays The caps were generic black (caps from plain black pens will fit), though possibly step up (a challenging one) from basic black in that they might have had the Waterman imprint on the cap. Most all black pens have imprint on barrel, with smooth black cap, though iirc some overlays (barrel only) had imprinted cap to compensate for lack of barrel stamp. If that is so, ideally one would need to pull a black cap from from another half-overlay pen, though it might well be worth it to do so.

My guess is that intact the full retail on this pen to the right buyer, with proper cap, which- again- likely is just black, could hit $10,000+. Actually a pen of well more significance than the popular Parker Snake. Does your pen have a number at very butt?

Now, all that said, I'll defer to a couple of our players here who do more with this era/style regarding rarity and value. It is amazing to see such a pen pop up on this Board.


regards

david
David R. Isaacson MD. Website: VACUMANIA.com for quality old pens with full warranty.
Email: isaacson@frontiernet.net

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#5 david i

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Posted 18 May 2013 - 12:50 AM

BTW, if you would, please load the image to GALLERY not just to the post. Then pasting it into the post will allow it to appear full-size, not as thumbnail. Or, email me pics at isaacson@frontiernet.net (yes, 2 'nets') and I'll happily load the images for you.

best regards

david
David R. Isaacson MD. Website: VACUMANIA.com for quality old pens with full warranty.
Email: isaacson@frontiernet.net

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#6 George

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Posted 18 May 2013 - 01:23 AM

As David wrote, this pen was only cataloged as a 214, or a half overlay. The nib is not correct, but this is inconsequential. The pen would originally have had a #4 Waterman nib. The pen came in two versions/patterns, the Lily, which is the pictured pen, and the Rose. Finding a cap will be tricky but not impossible, since it will need to come off a smooth half overlay of some type with the imprint on the cap. The clip will also need to be replaced with a sterling clip.

I am curious about the imprint at the bottom of the pen. Is that a Waterman imprint? Out of the few that i've seen, I have never seen one with a butt end imprint like in the picture.

The pen is a beautiful and rare Waterman overlay. The last one I know about traded hands around 2006.

Regards,
George

#7 david i

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Posted 18 May 2013 - 01:35 AM

As David wrote, this pen was only cataloged as a 214, or a half overlay. The nib is not correct, but this is inconsequential. The pen would originally have had a #4 Waterman nib. The pen came in two versions/patterns, the Lily, which is the pictured pen, and the Rose. Finding a cap will be tricky but not impossible, since it will need to come off a smooth half overlay of some type with the imprint on the cap. The clip will also need to be replaced with a sterling clip.

I am curious about the imprint at the bottom of the pen. Is that a Waterman imprint? Out of the few that i've seen, I have never seen one with a butt end imprint like in the picture.

The pen is a beautiful and rare Waterman overlay. The last one I know about traded hands around 2006.

Regards,
George


Hi George,

Clipless would be ok, no?

regards

d
David R. Isaacson MD. Website: VACUMANIA.com for quality old pens with full warranty.
Email: isaacson@frontiernet.net

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#8 George

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Posted 18 May 2013 - 01:48 AM

Maybe- IIRC one of the ads has the pen shown without clip. So Yes, I would think an imprinted clipless pen would be fine.

Regards,
George

#9 david i

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Posted 18 May 2013 - 01:50 AM

As to caps...

Find a gold-filled Wateramn 1/2-covered model 312 or 314 with proper cap. Can be clipless, or could have clip swapped later (a $100 or so intervention) for proper silver. The donor pen would cost <200 and have the imprinted cap. And, then the monster pen could be complete...

-d
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Email: isaacson@frontiernet.net

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#10 George

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Posted 18 May 2013 - 02:23 AM

That would be a possibility David, however; the half covered overlay with an imprinted cap is difficult to find. The frequently imprinted caps are often found on 61X pearl slab eyedroppers, from my experience. They can also be found on early pierced half overlays IIRC.

Regards,
George

EDIT: Mulling this cap problem over again... If the pen does indeed have the Waterman imprint at the butt end of the pen, then an unimprinted cap would not be "incorrect".

Edited by George, 18 May 2013 - 03:20 AM.


#11 George

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Posted 18 May 2013 - 03:08 AM

M1928,

If you are interested in selling this pen, I would be very interested. Please contact me at rimakis@gmail.com if you want to discuss this further.

Regards,
George

Edited by George, 18 May 2013 - 03:25 AM.


#12 m1928

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Posted 18 May 2013 - 04:19 PM

BTW, if you would, please load the image to GALLERY not just to the post. Then pasting it into the post will allow it to appear full-size, not as thumbnail. Or, email me pics at isaacson@frontiernet.net (yes, 2 'nets') and I'll happily load the images for you.

best regards

david



I will shoot some other images so they can be enjoyed by others since there seems to be a bit of interest.

Most likely I wll not get to it until tomorrow.
These shots were taken with my phone to show a friend after I initially purchase.

#13 m1928

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Posted 18 May 2013 - 04:20 PM

That would be a possibility David, however; the half covered overlay with an imprinted cap is difficult to find. The frequently imprinted caps are often found on 61X pearl slab eyedroppers, from my experience. They can also be found on early pierced half overlays IIRC.

Regards,
George

EDIT: Mulling this cap problem over again... If the pen does indeed have the Waterman imprint at the butt end of the pen, then an unimprinted cap would not be "incorrect".



#14 m1928

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Posted 18 May 2013 - 04:22 PM

That would be a possibility David, however; the half covered overlay with an imprinted cap is difficult to find. The frequently imprinted caps are often found on 61X pearl slab eyedroppers, from my experience. They can also be found on early pierced half overlays IIRC.

Regards,
George

EDIT: Mulling this cap problem over again... If the pen does indeed have the Waterman imprint at the butt end of the pen, then an unimprinted cap would not be "incorrect".


It does have numbers pressed into the butt.of the pen but I will need the pen in hand to tell you the numbers. Pen was left at work.

#15 m1928

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Posted 18 May 2013 - 04:26 PM

As David wrote, this pen was only cataloged as a 214, or a half overlay. The nib is not correct, but this is inconsequential. The pen would originally have had a #4 Waterman nib. The pen came in two versions/patterns, the Lily, which is the pictured pen, and the Rose. Finding a cap will be tricky but not impossible, since it will need to come off a smooth half overlay of some type with the imprint on the cap. The clip will also need to be replaced with a sterling clip.

I am curious about the imprint at the bottom of the pen. Is that a Waterman imprint? Out of the few that i've seen, I have never seen one with a butt end imprint like in the picture.

The pen is a beautiful and rare Waterman overlay. The last one I know about traded hands around 2006.

Regards,
George


I'll get the nos on the butt tomorrow
If you are referring to the name imprinted in the silver - if the pen was standing tall with the nib in the air the writing would be at the top of the overlay.

#16 m1928

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Posted 18 May 2013 - 04:37 PM

As David wrote, this pen was only cataloged as a 214, or a half overlay. The nib is not correct, but this is inconsequential. The pen would originally have had a #4 Waterman nib. The pen came in two versions/patterns, the Lily, which is the pictured pen, and the Rose. Finding a cap will be tricky but not impossible, since it will need to come off a smooth half overlay of some type with the imprint on the cap. The clip will also need to be replaced with a sterling clip.

I am curious about the imprint at the bottom of the pen. Is that a Waterman imprint? Out of the few that i've seen, I have never seen one with a butt end imprint like in the picture.

The pen is a beautiful and rare Waterman overlay. The last one I know about traded hands around 2006.

Regards,
George



Back in August right after i got the pen I wrote this to a friend:
Waterman -- could not see any number on the end. There may have been 3 numbers but at best it is three slight indents.
On the plus side the nib is a New York 5.

#17 m1928

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Posted 18 May 2013 - 09:08 PM

BTW, if you would, please load the image to GALLERY not just to the post. Then pasting it into the post will allow it to appear full-size, not as thumbnail. Or, email me pics at isaacson@frontiernet.net (yes, 2 'nets') and I'll happily load the images for you.

best regards



david



If you click on the image doesn't it become large?

#18 david i

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Posted 18 May 2013 - 09:38 PM

If you click on the image doesn't it become large?


Yeppers, but (personal call) I find images that rest in the thread at full-ish size to be easier on eyes and on process. Also, the uploads-to-posts are very memory limited. If you do four other pics ever, you will use up the storage and have to delete images including this one. I'd like to see the image stay with the thread. This is a really rare pen :)

I'll be happy to load it if you send me basic JPG's.

regards

david
David R. Isaacson MD. Website: VACUMANIA.com for quality old pens with full warranty.
Email: isaacson@frontiernet.net

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#19 m1928

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Posted 18 May 2013 - 11:15 PM

Good point
And I will get some up -- I will shoot new ones that will show better detail. I beat these up to get them to be as large as I could with a very small file.
You are right as the images I uploaded on my Parker vacs, 51 etc ate a lot of space.

#20 m1928

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Posted 19 May 2013 - 09:23 PM

Pictures are held up until I locate the pen. =-(







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