Reverse Trim After-war Triumph ?

War-time 1250 Triumph had Black reverse trim model in both full size and Tuckaway but so far I have not seen any reverse trim in after-war models.

Any idea on after-war Black color reverse trim Valiant (1250) or Stateman (1000) ? Was Sheaffer dropped the reverse trim after war but re-introduced in 50s for Snorkels ?

CC

War-time 1250 Triumph had Black reverse trim model in both full size and Tuckaway but so far I have not seen any reverse trim in after-war models.

Any idea on after-war Black color reverse trim Valiant (1250) or Stateman (1000) ? Was Sheaffer dropped the reverse trim after war but re-introduced in 50s for Snorkels ?

CC

Hi,

"After War" of course is a bit open ended

While I've not seen a post-war plunger-era reverse-trim pen (1945-7 in celluloid, 1948 in Forticel injection plastic), I did manage to score the only publicly acknowledged wide-lip (non bead-band) 1949-1950 Touchdown pen in reverse trim (black with chrome-tone trim), a Statesman (which has open nib, not Triumph nib, during this era, unlike earlier pens). Turned up via ebay for a song. I posted about it awhile back

http://www.fountainp...year-touchdown/

It is clean pen (there was an aftermarket sticker on it, leaving some residue when I first shot the pen).

So, this then is only-one-known or only-one-claimed

regards

david

Of course there are numerous examples of reverse trim in the Snorkel line but not in the early or TM TD lines, here's the only example of a TM TD I've seen



Regards
Hugh

Thanks for the info !

Sheaffers in 40s are confused but it is interested to study

In my collection, I have post-war celluloid examples with 4 different cap band width (except wire-band), as far as I know Valiant had changed to a narrower band in 1946,
so I assumed the 2 wider bands are Valiant (1250) of different years.

How about the remaining 2 narrower bands? Are they belong to different year Statesman (1000) like Valiant ?

Will post picture later when I found all 4 diffenent band caps.

CC

Thanks for the info !

Sheaffers in 40s are confused but it is interested to study

In my collection, I have post-war celluloid examples with 4 different cap band width (except wire-band), as far as I know Valiant had changed to a narrower band in 1946,
so I assumed the 2 wider bands are Valiant (1250) of different years.

How about the remaining 2 narrower bands? Are they belong to different year Statesman (1000) like Valiant ?

Will post picture later when I found all 4 diffenent band caps.

CC

The slightly smaller pens with cap-bands (non-bead-band) that are narrower than the two found on Valiant (or for that matter than the one found on Autograph), will be Statesman on celluloid plunger-era pens if Triumph (conical) nib present. During the post-War, celluloid era, Sovereign mutated from a white dot, triumph nib, bead band pen, to a wide-lip, non-white-dot, open nib pen, moving from the king of the bead-band pens to the pawn of the non-bead-band pens. The cap and barrel look identical to Statesman save for lack of white dot, different nib, different price code on barrel. They have the wider of the two cap-bands found on the 2nd size pen. Some of us have wondered if that band was *then* applied to Statesman as well for ease of production. I don't recall seeing the narrower of the two cap-bands found on Statesman found as NWD on Sovereign. I must pull some images. This must not be fun for those not familiar with 1940's Sheaffers.

regards

david

Thanks for the info !

Sheaffers in 40s are confused but it is interested to study

In my collection, I have post-war celluloid examples with 4 different cap band width (except wire-band), as far as I know Valiant had changed to a narrower band in 1946,
so I assumed the 2 wider bands are Valiant (1250) of different years.

How about the remaining 2 narrower bands? Are they belong to different year Statesman (1000) like Valiant ?

Will post picture later when I found all 4 diffenent band caps.

CC

The slightly smaller pens with cap-bands (non-bead-band) that are narrower than the two found on Valiant (or for that matter than the one found on Autograph), will be Statesman on celluloid plunger-era pens if Triumph (conical) nib present. During the post-War, celluloid era, Sovereign mutated from a white dot, triumph nib, bead band pen, to a wide-lip, non-white-dot, open nib pen, moving from the king of the bead-band pens to the pawn of the non-bead-band pens. The cap and barrel look identical to Statesman save for lack of white dot, different nib, different price code on barrel. They have the wider of the two cap-bands found on the 2nd size pen. Some of us have wondered if that band was *then* applied to Statesman as well for ease of production. I don't recall seeing the narrower of the two cap-bands found on Statesman found as NWD on Sovereign. I must pull some images. This must not be fun for those not familiar with 1940's Sheaffers.

regards

david

This photo shows the 4 post-war striped celluloid Triumphs with different cap bands, all come with Trumph nib (sorry for the bad picture quality)



The 2 bigger pens in the middle are Valiant. The upper Valiant with wider band is the 1st generation Triumph Valiant (45-46) while the lower Valiant is later version before Forticel(46-47).

The lowest pen should be Statesman without any question.

Is the upper pen Sovereign ? But it has WD while wide-lip and Triumph nib, which is different from the characteristic of late Sovereign II ! Will it be the variant of Statesman like Valiant happened in mid 46 ? Unfortunately, I can't find any price code on the barrel of this pen...

CC

This photo shows the 4 post-war striped celluloid Triumphs with different cap bands, all come with Trumph nib (sorry for the bad picture quality)


The 2 bigger pens in the middle are Valiant. The upper Valiant with wider band is the 1st generation Triumph Valiant (45-46) while the lower Valiant is later version before Forticel(46-47).

The lowest pen should be Statesman without any question.

Is the upper pen Sovereign ? But it has WD while wide-lip and Triumph nib, which is different from the characteristic of late Sovereign II ! Will it be the variant of Statesman like Valiant happened in mid 46 ? Unfortunately, I can't find any price code on the barrel of this pen...

CC

Hi Snork.

At risk of facetiousness, I note that "without any question" is a dangerous turn of the phrase regarding post-War 1940's Sheaffers.

In your image the upper and lower pens are Statesman. My 1947 retrospective Sheaffer Workbook is not with me, but recollection has it that the thinner-band white-dot pen is believed to be the earlier (or at least "documented") style for Statesman. The wider lip of the two outer (upper and lower) pens shown is known when non-White-Dot, with open nib as Sovereign, but when found White Dot with Triumph nib is known as "that there other cap-band found on Statesman".

regards

david

This photo shows the 4 post-war striped celluloid Triumphs with different cap bands, all come with Trumph nib (sorry for the bad picture quality)


The 2 bigger pens in the middle are Valiant. The upper Valiant with wider band is the 1st generation Triumph Valiant (45-46) while the lower Valiant is later version before Forticel(46-47).

The lowest pen should be Statesman without any question.

Is the upper pen Sovereign ? But it has WD while wide-lip and Triumph nib, which is different from the characteristic of late Sovereign II ! Will it be the variant of Statesman like Valiant happened in mid 46 ? Unfortunately, I can't find any price code on the barrel of this pen...

CC

Hi Snork.

At risk of facetiousness, I note that "without any question" is a dangerous turn of the phrase regarding post-War 1940's Sheaffers.

In your image the upper and lower pens are Statesman. My 1947 retrospective Sheaffer Workbook is not with me, but recollection has it that the thinner-band white-dot pen is believed to be the earlier (or at least "documented") style for Statesman. The wider lip of the two outer (upper and lower) pens shown is known when non-White-Dot, with open nib as Sovereign, but when found White Dot with Triumph nib is known as "that there other cap-band found on Statesman".

regards

david

Hi David,
I always assume thinner band should be the later version as a result of 'cost reduction' ...

My only reference for 40s Sheaffer are those ADs that from internet sources (like those on Roger's site), my ADs collection as well as the 1941 and 1949 catalogs. Unfortunately the 2 catalog copies I have cannot provide any information of 40s striped celluloid Triumphs ! Where can I find the 1947 Sheaffer Workbook ?

I remember I got several narrow band striped celluloid Triumph, need to spend time in grouping them to sort out whether I have more thinner band with WD. May be the one shown on the picture is a combination of cap and barrel from different era because the barrel don't have price code to confirm...

CC

Actually, Sheaffer made the cap band wider and the nib shorter! The early Statesman with the 3/16" cap band should have the longer 92 (unmarked) nib - same as the more expensive Valiant and all the war time Triumph models. The 1/4" band Statesman should have a "79" nib. (Source: the 1951 Service Policy in the PCA library. The 2 cap band widths have different model numbers.) This holds for both the full size Statesman and the Tuckaway.

Actually, Sheaffer made the cap band wider and the nib shorter! The early Statesman with the 3/16" cap band should have the longer 92 (unmarked) nib - same as the more expensive Valiant and all the war time Triumph models. The 1/4" band Statesman should have a "79" nib. (Source: the 1951 Service Policy in the PCA library. The 2 cap band widths have different model numbers.) This holds for both the full size Statesman and the Tuckaway.

Hi Matt,

Thanks for the clarification, I have never measure the length of nibs...

Should take out my post-war Triumphs to do a serious study

CC