Question about Sheaffer Valiant and Snork

Over on FPN, someone has asked a tough question about Sheaffer Valiants: both Snorkel and TD fillers. I skimmed, so it might not have covered TDs, but the poster has a fascinating flow-chart by the wonderful Teri M plotting how to determine what model Sheaffer you might have found.

[Professional note: I've been working in the computer industry since 1981 and have never written a flow-chart, partly because thney were considered obsolete by 1980, but also because we get confused trying to follow the decision points. I could explain more, but it would be like having Doctor David name the bones in the human body.]

The OP's problem, I believe, is that  a few people, such as David and Teri and others probably mostly on FPB, can differentiate the Sheaffer models 1948 - 1955 or so, most EBay sellers cannot. If a pen has a Snorkel filler, it's a Snork. Even, sometimes, if it's a Touchdown...and some don't know the difference between a plunger filler and a TD filler. I think I remember a TD filler called a "piston filler" once.
 

Could a few experts drop by the thread at:

http://www.fountainp...eneric-snorkel/

and lend some advice?

My own advice was to contact David or Teri and ask them to find the pen he wants. Probably others could do as well, but I remember a line on Vacumania in which, in my memory, David says that Sheaffers are his second focus...second only to Vacs. So...

(and I wish Sheaffers were easily to classify!!)

For a start the "flow chart" is missing a number of models ( or it was when I last saw it) to render it next to useless, anyway a flow chart covering both Snorkel and TM TD would work better with the first question being " does it have a snorkel?" rather than "does it have a white dot?". The Pen Hero site has the best guide to TDs and TM TDs on the net, the rest I've seen have errors in their TM TD section.

As I'm not welcome there I'll answer the question here, feel free to copy it to the FPN.

The Valiant name was used in the first model TD, the TM TD and Snorkel lines. All 3 carry two tone 14ct Triumph nibs and all 3 have a 3/8" cap band. The only colours used through all three models are black and burgundy, that helps to reduce the field a bit if trying to zero in on a particular model. The other feature found on the TD and TM TD is an ink view in the section. Assuming you've managed to decide if it's a snorkel or one of the others it then becomes very difficult to pick a TD  from a TM TD using a photo, but the next best way to distinguish them is that a lot of early TDs have a serial number on the nib ( a lot don't either and you do find TM TDs with serial numbered nibs but they are far from common). So a serial number on the nib is the best way to separate the TD and TM TD. 

I'm keen on TM TDs and I've only seen 3 serial numbered TMs in years of hunting. I can also say with a degree of knowledge that it can be extremely difficult to pick a TD from a TM TD on ebay if a serial number is absent, I have proof of that in the pen case !!

Regards

Hugh

Edited by Hugh, 09 December 2013 - 04:08 AM.

Hi Welch,

For once I'm not even being flippant (no, really!),  but you could invite your friends there to ask their questions here. We have some serious Snorklers here and no doubt could get an informative chat too.

I hope this week to add the final pics and do some text tweaking of the Sheaffer Snorkle Profile.

best regards

david

Too, I suggest first identifying pen series.

Valiant was a model name for a military-clip Balance around 1940-41, for a post-War cellulloid pen from 1945-7, for a similarly shaped injection plastic (Forticel) pen during the plunger-fill era still in 1948, for  one of the original ("fat") Touchdown pens of 1949-1950, for a Thin Model ™ Touchdown of 1951 and of course for one of the  1952-1959 Snorkels.  One could write an article/profile merely on the subject of Valiant:1940-1960.

Snorkel of course offered some 13 models. There is a logical progression to the models, but the names of the models ultimately require memorization. That said, I believe a simple 2 axis-table (no flow chart necessary) could be created to name the salient features for all Snork models.  Perhaps I'll add that to my profile.

Vacumatics of course are my core focus, but I know a bit about a fair number of pens

regards

david

When it comes to "Snorkel guides" I find David's an excellent one ( as he's so slack here's the link ) and when combined with the Penhero guides (including the Snorkel nib codes) gives a very good overview.

I love you guys. And, no, that's not the single malt talking...

I love you guys. And, no, that's not the single malt talking...

What ? You're only on "blended" these days ?

 

I love you guys. And, no, that's not the single malt talking...

 

What ? You're only on "blended" these days ?

 

Perish the thought, it'll never happen.

Edited by JonSzanto, 09 December 2013 - 05:55 PM.

I invited the FPN poster to visit here, and suggested he contact David, and others here, for a lead on the exact pen he wants. 

Hi Welch,

That would be great.  What is FPB after all if not an arena for hashing out details of collecting *old* pens

As an aside, I just whipped together an "ultimate" pocket guide to Snorkel models, formatted a bit differently from one done by  my friend Sam Marshall (a true Snorkel expert) when he wrote the first comprehensive Snorkel survey back around 2002 for PENnant Magazine (highly recommended).

1 page. Simple-ish table. Easy identification of 13 models and ready triggers to figure frankenpens (very common for Snorks as most of the parts swap).

So, thoughts... would collectors pay $5-10 or so for a laminated instant but comprehensive pocket Snorkel sheet?

regards

david

Ah, i've seen enough broken precious resin in my day. Laminated paper might last longer...

regards

-d

I have precious solvents and would enjoy dissolving any precious resin that is available.

How about an app for my phone...something like iSnorkel.

Would be easy to do regarding the boolean progression (is that the right term?). But, I don't code. I could structure the if/then but would need someone to do the program.  Anyone?

regards

d

What I have is a green plastic snorkel pen which is about 5 5/8". I'm sure its the Sheaffer Snorkel Valiant. Since it is two toned 14k. 

What I was hoping it would have been was a Sheaffer Valiant the 1949 size. This is what I really was looking for. Does anyone know if I can swap nibs from a Sheaffer Snorkel Valiant onto a thick Valiant(assuming plunger filler)

Hi Bluejay,

Snorkel nibs do not fit original Touchdowns, which have bulkier nibs.

A green all-plastic Snork with two tone Triumph (not open nib) with White Dot cap probably is a Valiant. It doesn't have to be. If the cap-band were a solid gold band  hallmarked 14k , the pen would be Signature.

A green all-plastic Snork with two tone open nib with NON white dot cap would be Saratoga.

So in green at least there are three all-plastic Snorks depending on trim features and nib.  We wouldn't want it to be boring

That said, I should have a green fat Touchdown Valiant lying around here somewhere or other...

regards

d

Normally I will look at the cap then nib because most of the sellers are showing the whole pen capped as the 1st picture...

By usiing David's green all plastic as example

Thinner cap band will be fallen into the non-WD models (Saratoga, Admiral or Special)

Wider cap band if not 14K will either be Statesman or Valiant. Valiant can be confirmed by the 2 tones Triumph nib

CC