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Depression ("$3.50") pen in Duofold Jade color


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#1 John Danza

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Posted 02 January 2014 - 03:00 AM

I was digging through pens I've acquired and stashed over the years and ran into this pen. On first glance it looks like a streamlined Duofold Juniorette. But then the barrel imprint and nib imprint tell a different story.

 

The barrel imprint is the "plain" late-1930s imprint showing "GEO S PARKER - PEN - MADE IN USA" in line one and "PATENTED" in line two. We discussed another pen with this imprint a while back in this thread.

 

The nib had the fairly plain imprint found on the minor models in the 1930s. The imprint has, on different levels "PARKER / PEN / MADE IN USA / 8.". The date code of "8" is helpful, pegging this to 1938.

 

Conclusion: IIRC, by 1938 the original color Duofolds were no longer on the market and the Geometric Duofold was about to be introduced. My guess is that the Jade rod stock was still laying around and, with the Depression financial issues still ongoing, the factory decided to use the material to make some of the "$3.50" model pens.

 

Here are some photos (sorry for the crappy nib photo). Thoughts? 

 

P1010094_zpsa55ff6ba.jpg

 

P1010098_zpsdf920df9.jpg

 

P1010103_zpsa596a9eb.jpg



John Danza


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#2 david i

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Posted 02 January 2014 - 04:00 AM

Interesting pen. There might be more to the jade "thrift" story, perhaps a continuum of production rather than an "either/or".

 

My key question is: what size is the pen? Is it Junior Duofold save for markings or different size, slender/jumiorette?  I'll explain why  i ask  in later post.

 

regards

 

d


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#3 John Danza

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Posted 02 January 2014 - 04:16 AM

It's a Juniorette size (in the first paragraph but kind of buried). It's 4-1/2 inches long. The ball clip has the patent date, so it's not late 1930s manufacture. The feed is a spear feed. So it's essentially a streamlined Duofold Juniorette excepting for the barrel and nib imprints.

John Danza


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#4 david i

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Posted 02 January 2014 - 04:44 AM

So it's essentially a streamlined Duofold Juniorette excepting for the barrel and nib imprints.

 

 

... and for the cap-band pattern.  I believe that cap was never meant for a Duofold. Have to photograph a related pen tomorrow.

 

regards

 

d


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#5 John Danza

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Posted 02 January 2014 - 07:40 AM

 

So it's essentially a streamlined Duofold Juniorette excepting for the barrel and nib imprints.

 

 

... and for the cap-band pattern.  I believe that cap was never meant for a Duofold. Have to photograph a related pen tomorrow.

 

regards

 

d

 

 

I look forward to seeing what you have David. The two cap band pattern is pretty typical for streamlined Junior and Juniorette. Although frankly, I'm surprised that this cap doesn't have a single cap band, since the pen is clearly not a Duofold and is instead the cheaper streamlined "$3.50" model.



John Danza


"Positive attitude makes for good decisions, but bad decisions make for great stories."

 

 

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#6 david i

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Posted 02 January 2014 - 08:44 AM

Hi John,
 
Are you sure double band crops up on Juniorette. I did not peek at catalogues tonight, but recollection is that even in the 1930;s the slender-diameter pens had triple band (fat in middle). Junior and Senior not.
 
best regards
 
david


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#7 John Danza

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Posted 02 January 2014 - 04:48 PM

Hi John,
 
Are you sure double band crops up on Juniorette. I did not peek at catalogues tonight, but recollection is that even in the 1930;s the slender-diameter pens had triple band (fat in middle). Junior and Senior not.
 
best regards
 
david

 

Hmmm.... not quite sure actually. This is only the second Juniorette I've had in my life. The other was about 15 years ago and was of English manufacture, but I don't recall the cap band configuration. I know the streamlined Duofold Special I have has two cap bands, but the vest pocket has three. I guess the question is what was standard on the streamlined Ladies model, as the Juniorette is basically a pocket clip version of the Ladies model.



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"Positive attitude makes for good decisions, but bad decisions make for great stories."

 

 

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#8 david i

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Posted 03 January 2014 - 12:50 AM

John,

 

I'd guess with your pen the "8" nib indicates a later replacement nib, typical to Challenger or perhaps Deluxe Challenger from that time.  A late production of the jade pen of course is not excluded. 

 

The shot below shows a 1928  flat-top pen in Modernistic Blue celluloid, the pen which would take the name  True Blue in 1929 with the appearance of the streamlined version, which would have similar shape to the following three pens.

 

The black pen looks typical to the 1929-32 "raven black" pen that we tend to lump in with the vaguely defined Thrift pens.  Heck, if we didn't have a catalogue page for the True Blue, it would be called a Thrift Pen today.

 

Next to the black pen are two jade pens. The Jade pen looks just like the black pen save for color. Same imprint.  

 

Note the Jade Pen is not just a relabeled/de-labeld Duofold. This is a long slender pen, a size not made as Duofold.

 

The last pen is a true Duofold Lady Duofold/Juniorette size. Note the cap-band pattern.

 

I think your pen, like the black pen and long jade pen in my shot, is another "thrift" pen just in slender short size, just as "raven black and gold" pens and True Blue were made short and long (always though with same size cap, just different barrel length).

My guess is the Jade "Thrift" pens are 1929-1932 or so issue.

Thoughts?

 

parker_thrifttime_trueblue_jade850a.jpg

regards

David


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#9 John Danza

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Posted 03 January 2014 - 03:31 AM



John,

 

I'd guess with your pen the "8" nib indicates a later replacement nib, typical to Challenger or perhaps Deluxe Challenger from that time.  A late production of the jade pen of course is not excluded. 

 

The shot below shows a 1928  flat-top pen in Modernistic Blue celluloid, the pen which would take the name  True Blue in 1929 with the appearance of the streamlined version, which would have similar shape to the following three pens.

 

The black pen looks typical to the 1929-32 "raven black" pen that we tend to lump in with the vaguely defined Thrift pens.  Heck, if we didn't have a catalogue page for the True Blue, it would be called a Thrift Pen today.

 

Next to the black pen are two jade pens. The Jade pen looks just like the black pen save for color. Same imprint.  

 

Note the Jade Pen is not just a relabeled/de-labeld Duofold. This is a long slender pen, a size not made as Duofold.

 

The last pen is a true Duofold Lady Duofold/Juniorette size. Note the cap-band pattern.

 

I think your pen, like the black pen and long jade pen in my shot, is another "thrift" pen just in slender short size, just as "raven black and gold" pens and True Blue were made short and long (always though with same size cap, just different barrel length).

My guess is the Jade "Thrift" pens are 1929-1932 or so issue.

Thoughts?

 

parker_thrifttime_trueblue_jade850a.jpg

regards

David

 

 

Ah, the plot thickens! Yes, I do have a few thoughts. :)

 

I don't like to chalk up nibs that don't fit comfortably into a pattern as a contemporary replacement, as I'm not sure how much nib replacement typically went on back then. With the barrel imprint being such that was used throughout the 1930s, late-1930s manufacture for the jade pen I think is well within the realm of possibility without a stretch of the imagination. However.......

 

The two things that lead me to a very early 1930s manufacture for the jade pen is the feed and the clip. The feed is a spear feed manufactured without the lucky curve (I've had it apart and can attest it wasn't cut). The clip has the imprint of the patent date. It's this more than the feed that could lead me to early-1930s manufacture.

 

Let's turn away from the jade to look at your pens for a second. The True Blue is a standard long flat top. The clip doesn't have the patent date, which I would have expected for the late-1928/early 1929 manufacture of the pen. It could just be a trick of the angle of the photo.

 

Your Raven I would agree looks pretty standard for 1929-1932, with me leaning towards the earlier date due to the patent date on the clip. It's hard to tell from the photo, but I would guess 4-3/4 inches, which would be right for the pen to be a bit shorter than the flat-top True Blue, which would be a bit over 5 inches.

 

The last pen, agreed, would be a standard Juniorette. You don't mention it, but I'll assume that it's marked "Duofold". Note the clip has no patent date and the "Parker" is a bit higher up on the clip than those with the patent date. I guess that's likely due to the clip being a short one, similar in size to those put on the short thrift pens and vest pocket pens, which are all the same diameter at the top.

 

Back to the third pen. The length is actually a size made in the Duofold, being the Duofold Special. The Specials seem to be (at least those I've examined) the same diameter as a Junior but of a length that falls in between Junior (4-1/2 to 4-5/8) and a Senior (5-1/8). There's no question that yours is slimmer than a typical Special, looking to be the same as the Lady/Juniorette. I had something similar in a flat top Jade, which had a Lucky Curve imprint (photo at the end). The two cap bands fit in this case, as the Special had the two cap bands like that of the Senior and Junior. But clearly yours has the same imprint as my Jade. I would be curious to know what the nib imprint is and what kind of feed it has. Oh, it's also interesting that it has a patent date on the clip, marking it earlier than later.

 

So as a further comparison, below is a few streamlined pens shown next to the original Jade in question. Bottom to top, they are:

1. The Jade from the original post. Length 4-1/2 inches.

2. Standard streamlined Duofold Junior. Length 4-5/8 inches.

3. Streamlined Duofold Special (so marked). Length 4-15/16 inches. (I just noticed something in the imprint that I'll reserve for another active thread).

4. Raven. Length 4-15/16 inches.

 

I bring this photo forth just so we could see all the different pens lined up right next to each other to judge length and thickness.

 

StreamlinedParkers_zpsa67c6d8f.jpg

 

So where does that leave us? I think we agree that this is a depression era "thrift" / "$3.50" pen made in the Jade plastic typically reserved only for Duofolds, which would make it off-catalog in my opinion. Your third pen certainly confirms that there was a long and short variety made, just as was done with some of the thrift models. Where I'm not ready to agree is the possible date of manufacture. There are features that tell me early-1930s and there are features that tell me late-1930s. Still, pretty cool to have these come to light.

 

Oh, BTW, here's the photo of the long thin flat top Jade Lucky Curve. Sorry I don't have more detail, but I don't own the pen any longer.

 

JadeLuckyCurve.jpg



John Danza


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#10 csikora

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Posted 03 January 2014 - 03:39 AM

I know its kind of a rare event that I'm able to contribute anything to these conversations.  I did, however, put together a mini-collection of Jade Parkers a while back.  After checking, I did indeed have two of the $3.50 pens.  Oddly, one has a lucky-curve nib (with spear feed), and the other has a regular Parker nib (no duofold) complete with comb feed.

 

David is correct - the thin-thick-thin, I believe, is a Juniorette (sans clip in my example).  The pen beside the two Senior pens is a 'Duofold Special'.  I still think the vest pocket pens are adorable.

 

Chris

 

jDSC_1331.jpg

 

jDSC_1334.jpg

 

jDSC_1335.jpg

 

jDSC_1337.jpg



#11 david i

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Posted 03 January 2014 - 03:42 AM

Hi John,

 

The long Jade pen (pen #3 from left in my photo) is not a Special. What, you think maybe I'm a hack amateur newbie or sumthin"? ;)

 

Special was a standard (Junior) diameter pen long as a Senior (OS), at least for the barrel.

This pen is a slender  (Juniorette) diamter pen  essentially as long as a Senior (or special) at least for the barrel.

 

Long-standard is known in Duofold (Special)

 

Long-slender I believe is not known as Duofold

And, yeah, per my note, the short pen is a Lady Duofold/Juniorette. It is marked DF

 

regards

 

d


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#12 david i

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Posted 03 January 2014 - 03:45 AM

I know its kind of a rare event that I'm able to contribute anything to these conversations.  I did, however, put together a mini-collection of Jade Parkers a while back.  After checking, I did indeed have two of the $3.50 pens.  Oddly, one has a lucky-curve nib (with spear feed), and the other has a regular Parker nib (no duofold) complete with comb feed.

 

David is correct - the thin-thick-thin, I believe, is a Juniorette (sans clip in my example).  The pen beside the two Senior pens is a 'Duofold Special'.  I still think the vest pocket pens are adorable.

 

Chris

 

 

Hi Chris,

I daresay you've contributed a fair bit to a number of threads.   Keep doing so ;)

But... a mini collection!

Do go post that one image in our fresh Ode to the Mini Collection thread in "Elements of Collecting". It should be near the top. It will fit in well.  That is a nice focused collection.

 

regards

 

david


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#13 John Danza

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Posted 03 January 2014 - 07:15 AM

Hi John,

 

The long Jade pen (pen #3 from left in my photo) is not a Special. What, you think maybe I'm a hack amateur newbie or sumthin"? ;)

 

Special was a standard (Junior) diameter pen long as a Senior (OS), at least for the barrel.

This pen is a slender  (Juniorette) diamter pen  essentially as long as a Senior (or special) at least for the barrel.

 

Long-standard is known in Duofold (Special)

 

Long-slender I believe is not known as Duofold

 

 

I believe my comment says the same thing David. I didn't say it was a Special, as it's clearly not marked that way. What I was trying to say was that it looks like it's the length of a Special, but is thin like a Juniorette/Lady. Definitely not a size offered as a Duofold.

 

In my conclusion at the end, I was essentially agreeing with you that the pen I have is the short version of your long slender, and that they're both thrift pens made in the Duofold Jade plastic. Sorry if that was lost in the wordiness.



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#14 John Danza

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Posted 03 January 2014 - 07:22 AM

I know its kind of a rare event that I'm able to contribute anything to these conversations.  I did, however, put together a mini-collection of Jade Parkers a while back.  After checking, I did indeed have two of the $3.50 pens.  Oddly, one has a lucky-curve nib (with spear feed), and the other has a regular Parker nib (no duofold) complete with comb feed.

 

David is correct - the thin-thick-thin, I believe, is a Juniorette (sans clip in my example).  The pen beside the two Senior pens is a 'Duofold Special'.  I still think the vest pocket pens are adorable.

 

Chris

 

jDSC_1331.jpg

 

jDSC_1334.jpg

 

jDSC_1335.jpg

 

jDSC_1337.jpg

 

This is a great contribution Chris (and a great mini collection too).

 

It looks like you have two different Juniorette size pens with different cap band configurations. The one with the three thick bands is unusual and new to the conversation. Is that the one not marked Duofold? If so, this is most interesting.



John Danza


"Positive attitude makes for good decisions, but bad decisions make for great stories."

 

 

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#15 david i

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Posted 03 January 2014 - 07:42 AM

 

Hi John,

 

The long Jade pen (pen #3 from left in my photo) is not a Special. What, you think maybe I'm a hack amateur newbie or sumthin"? ;)

 

Special was a standard (Junior) diameter pen long as a Senior (OS), at least for the barrel.

This pen is a slender  (Juniorette) diamter pen  essentially as long as a Senior (or special) at least for the barrel.

 

Long-standard is known in Duofold (Special)

 

Long-slender I believe is not known as Duofold

 

 

I believe my comment says the same thing David. I didn't say it was a Special, as it's clearly not marked that way. What I was trying to say was that it looks like it's the length of a Special, but is thin like a Juniorette/Lady. Definitely not a size offered as a Duofold.

 

In my conclusion at the end, I was essentially agreeing with you that the pen I have is the short version of your long slender, and that they're both thrift pens made in the Duofold Jade plastic. Sorry if that was lost in the wordiness.

 

 

Then I misread.

 

All good.  Not your wordiness. I'm in midst of many distractions today, and FPB has had a run of heavy traffic, so I have been reading each post with less depth than usual, and I probably skim a bit usually

 

regards

 

d


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#16 csikora

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Posted 03 January 2014 - 02:59 PM

The triple band is indeed marked Duofold (with a duofold nib).  I'm unsure if the clip is original....I just always assumed it was a garden-variety Lady-Duofold with the triple bands (like the non-streamlined type).

I do have the matching pencil for the thin-thick-thin banded juniorette (and it has a ring-top).

Chris

 


 

This is a great contribution Chris (and a great mini collection too).

 

It looks like you have two different Juniorette size pens with different cap band configurations. The one with the three thick bands is unusual and new to the conversation. Is that the one not marked Duofold? If so, this is most interesting.

 






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