Painted Duofold

An Acquaintance of mine came upon this pen.  Story he was told was it came from an executive of Parker Pens.  No paper documentation.

Surmise this pen might have been part of a presentation idea.  Definitely painted in the 1920's due to crackalature of the paint.

Pen was used by its previous owner.

It is very beautiful.

The painting looks appropriate to other pens in that style. I would not mind owning it

-d

That is a very neat pen!  Beautiful!

It's on E Bay as we speak.

$15,000 !! Quite ambitious for a pen with absolutely no provenance and a back story that's legend, not fact.

Looking at the pen, there's an odd combination of features that makes me wonder. It's an early flattop Madarin, determined by the fact that the threads are yellow and not the black that was changed to because of the discoloration by ink. The nib imprint is consistent with the barrel era. However, the feed is a 1930's comb feed. That seems like an odd combination for a pen supposedly owned by a "Parker executive".

 

It's on E Bay as we speak.

 

$15,000 !! Quite ambitious for a pen with absolutely no provenance and a back story that's legend, not fact.

 

Looking at the pen, there's an odd combination of features that makes me wonder. It's an early flattop Madarin, determined by the fact that the threads are yellow and not the black that was changed to because of the discoloration by ink. The nib imprint is consistent with the barrel era. However, the feed is a 1930's comb feed. That seems like an odd combination for a pen supposedly owned by a "Parker executive".

 

you're all wrong.... 

it's a  "PENN" 

so exclusive it gets an extra "N" 

I would give it the benefit of the doubt, and say the value here is maybe $2500-$3500 

I might be on the generous side, dunno. 

I can see where it might have received a nib and feed "upgrade or replacement" 

no documentation, that really hurts anything in terms of being relatively unique, you can make anything up you want, in the end all you have to do is convince a buyer enough to extract said payment. 

In the end, it is really a cool item, I am glad we had a chance to see it. I wouldgenerally agree it is period correct in terms of the painting.

This is more along stuff Nishimura knows all about. Maybe even that Rimakis guy.... 

The look of the painting pattern seems appropriate for painted pens from that era, recognizing of course the typical caveats.

regards

d

 

I would give it the benefit of the doubt, and say the value here is maybe $2500-$3500 

 

I might be on the generous side, dunno. 

 

I can see where it might have received a nib and feed "upgrade or replacement" 

 

As an early flattop Mandarin which appears to have no cap lip cracks, yo9u can get to the $1000 - $1500 number just there. Without documentation, the paint job is just period adornment that an individual buyer would need to value.

The feed is odd, because the nib is probably original. If it's a replacement, they replaced the original with a properly imprinted nib years after they were made. But at the same time, they put in a current feed. Seems like a strange combo.

Yes, the decorative paint is definitely period, in style. It's actually quite like this Conklin set.  

How many steps away is the seller from the person who bought it from the "executive"? It shouldn't too very difficult to establish the provenance if it is legitimate.

Regards,

Daniel

IMHO It´s not that beautiful....

Here's the link to the auction. I love this statement in the description:

 

CLEARLY BY THE PRICE WE HAVE ON THIS AUCTION WE ARE NOT ACTIVELY LOOKING TO SELL THIS PEN.

IF BY CHANCE YOU HAVE A DECENT OFFER CONSIDERING THE RARITY  OF THE PEN PLEASE SUBMIT BEST OFFER.
 

I interpret that as saying "I do want to sell it, but only if you're dumb enough to give me a monster offer."

It was originally listed for $5000.  I wonder when he jumped the price up so high.

It was originally listed for $5000.  I wonder when he jumped the price up so high.

Go read the comments on FPN. 

 

It was originally listed for $5000.  I wonder when he jumped the price up so high.

 

Go read the comments on FPN.

Do we have to?

 

 

It was originally listed for $5000.  I wonder when he jumped the price up so high.

 

Go read the comments on FPN.

 

Do we have to?

 

I'm on a roll there, I've got points.

 

It was originally listed for $5000.  I wonder when he jumped the price up so high.

Go read the comments on FPN. 

 

Quite a read. I'm not sure how I got known as a Duofold guru. Interesting comment by David N. I was hoping he might chime in on the thread here. But the OP seems to be stretching the story quite a bit.

The whole premise seems iffy to me.  By and large they painted ringtops.  I've seen a painted desk pen.  I don't think I've seen any painted clip pens.  I don't suppose it could be ruled out absolutely but, I'd stand on the side of it being wrong until proven otherwise and this has no provenance.

Roger W.

I really wish there had never been mention of any big wig executive owning this pen.

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it is really cool in and of itself.  I count being able to hold and see this on the same level as having the chance to see and hold pens from the Michael Fultz Collection back when I attended the Chicago Pen Group meetings.  Yes I think this is as special as an Parker Aztec or Snake.  But then again I am a generalist in my collecting ... I seek out only account or needle grade nibbed pens.

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Humbly Yours

Douglas Cole

Hi,

"Special" of course has a substantial subjective component.

In our hobby rarity is but a element of the multifactorial soup that creates collector cachet.

Though "special" perhaps is not synonymous with "collector cache" and though neither formally defines value, there does seem to be a bit of grandiosity in play with this pen, speaking purely from my own perspective, which is of course subjective too.

Aztecs and Snakes have a long and storied association with our hobby and are well-known (if not maximally rare) examples of the high art of overlay pens from the first decade of the last century.

I probably could identify some Wearevers rarer in collectable pendom's experience than the Aztec.  Such pens still likely are worth about $10.  Again, rarity isn't everything.

The pen under discussion is rare and charming no doubt. THat a pen of significant collector cachet (the Senior Duofold in Mandarin) is the substrate for the painting, and that a painted yellow DF has not been reported before certainly add some oomph.

But to some degree, the pen is a tweak, a quirk, a mapping of a general technique to a pen not usually so treated. Interesting tweaks on typical pens add value. They rarely add 900%.  Solid Gold cap-bands on Parker Vacumatics (Canadian pens in which many sizes and colors were so treated) add value.  They tend not to add hefty multiples of value.  Finding such a band on an intrinsically more expesive pen (red maxima) likely adds proportionately less value than finding one on a cheaper color.

We can speculate about the general case of the painted pen. If a 1930 metal ring-top Sheaffer in great shape retails restored at $150 (maybe you could find  a raw one in ok shape on ebay for $40) and if a painted metal ring-top Sheaffer with great paint preservation sells for $300, does the period-painting of the pen double the value?  Does it double it for all pens?  Or is the value additive, an extra $150 for the paint whether found on a pen otherwise worth $100 (now $250) or otherwise worth $1200 (now worth $1350 with paint)?  There are not hard rules, but the math at least can be contemplated.

Also, remember that collectors can't add.  2 examples (and yes, there can be exceptions) regarding dollar value:

1.  Within a series and model, special nibs should not be combined  with a pen with rare color or trim.  A red Vac Maxima  should not be fitted with a flex double broad stub nib.  Better to put the special nib in a much cheaper black pen and a plain nib in the expensive red-color pen. Why?  Some collectors want a monster nib and will pay bonus. Others want a desirable/high-cachet color and will pay bonus.  A much smaller pool will want both features at same time and be willing to pay double bonus.

2. Rare trim raises value more for common color pens. Parker 51 with Empire cap (two tone gold) can  gain more value from the cap on a cheap color (black) vs expensive color (Nassau). Some collectors want a rare color. Some want solid gold cap. Each will pay a bonus. Fewer will pay double bonus for both feature.

The pen shown in the OP raises similar challenges. There are collectors of painted pens. They will pay a bonus for the paint. There are Duofold collectors who want a scarce and expensive color, yellow. They will pay a bonus vs the basic black Duofold Senior.  Fewer by far will pay a double bonus.

The pen is neat for being impressive and for being anomalous. But, per earlier math model shown,  1930s painted pens sell by one model for $150 more than non-painted pens and by another model double the price of non-painted pens (yes, we can argue that either model is not a rule across the entire spectrum of painted pens).  It is a bit of a jump to turn a $1200  Mandarin into a $15,000 piece and  to link to Aztecs and Snakes and such.  Indeed, I would assert that to many serious Duofold collectors, a Senior done in off-catalogue (small-run, prototype, whatever) color adds more to value than would a trim/finish tweak such as an odd cap-band pattern, solid-gold trim or... perhaps even painting.

Here i Sa Vacumatic pencil in an uncommon and off-catalogue plastic. Care to offer views as to whether it is worth more or less than would be a typical-color Vacumatic with 1930's paint applied, something never before seen?

There are other reasons to offer a crazy price on ebay for a fascinating and impressive pen such as the painted yellow Duofold. It generates terrific publicity. It can hook a motivated fish. It can serve show-and-tell or show-and-brag purpose, which can be fun. It likely does not reflect realistic expectations.

But,  in my view-- and I speak as one who would not at all mind owning the pen in question--  a pen that represents a quirky mix of well-known technique and well known (and not really that rare) model/color is not worthy of the iconic status of Aztec, etc.

regards

david