31 replies to this topic

[david i]

Here's another one, grey stripe, supposedly w/ GF trim

http://cgi.ebay.com/...em=250802481481

A good and reliable seller, but still I wonder if this started with chrome.

d

[david i]

Hi June and Dave:

I respectfully disagree with Dave when he explains that Canadian Sheaffer pens are 4th tier. Tier, to me, has always and always will refer to the quality of the pen, 4th tier, by normal definition, is classified as a piece of junk. 1st tier is classified as the best quality. Canadian Sheaffer did not produce 4th tier junk. Arnold was a 4th tier maker of pens. Sheaffer Canada pens ( and pencils) were never 4th tier. 'Tier' has never been defined by splitting infinities and complicating it's definition. My opinion is based on 20 years in the hobby.

Joe Nemecek

Hi again Joe,

I realized in response to you in earlier post noting that I wasn't calling Sheaffer Canada "4th tier" and wasn't necessarily calling June's pen a 4th Tier Sheaffer (though it might be), that I didn't address the broader usage to which I put "tier".

As with many elements of collector Jargon, there are terms that not only have local meanings, but terms that have malleable meaning, based on context. As to "local, collector" meanings, a grand example is how "Good Condition" means "Bad Condition"

As to tiers. We have tiers within tiers it seems.

Sheaffer no doubt was a 1st tier pen manufacturer. Arnold was at best 3rd tier. I agree completely.

But I tend to map the word onto various lines (and within lines) of pens produced by companies.

One might say that 1st Tier Sheaffer in mid 1930's made a 1st tier series (Balance) and 2nd tier pens (WASP etc), recognizing the hair-splitting as arguably WASP was a sub-brand, etc. Even so, there were WASPS made that cost more than some Balances. Overlap. Headache.

But even within Balance, a first tier pen by a first tier manufacturer, there were tiers of pens, marked by feature set and price point.

So, 1st tier maker Sheaffer made a 1st tier series (Balance) whose 4th tier line (Junior) cost lest than (but still might be better made than) the best of the 2nd tier series/family, WASP. And nearly all or all of them are better than most of what we can find today from 3rd tier maker, Arnold. Although, the weakest of the WASP line (WASP Addipoint) seemed to be inferior quality in some respects to some cheaper brands out there. Certainly they proved more fragile than some Esterbrooks, which itself certainly made high quality, although humbly furnitured (sic) pens.

regards

d

[Joe - the pencil guy]

Hi Dave:

Yes, we are basically on the same page but I believe that the word tier (in our hobby) should be reserved for describing the quality of the maker/model and not interjected as a word included in descibing price points within a makers lineup. Just my opinion. Splitting hairs? Nah.

Joe - the pencil guy

[June H]

Ah, I sit corrected then. Since I never have to guess about your finds, it seemed reasonable that you were not having to guess about mine.




Nope. But, yours looks to be smooth band, not "just" a Jeweler's lined band (itself a rare finding on military pens), so still pretty special, indeed the first I've seen. Worthy of starting a thread, if you get around to shooting it. Maybe I'll start it with my green lined-band pen.

-d

This is certanily an interesting discussion and it is bring up other questions. I would like to know how you tell which pen is Balance and which is balance-like. I cannot tell. To me they look the same.
Also, I have not found any catalogues or repair booklets on Canadian pens. Where are they. Surely they had them.

[david i]

This is certanily an interesting discussion and it is bring up other questions. I would like to know how you tell which pen is Balance and which is balance-like. I cannot tell. To me they look the same.
Also, I have not found any catalogues or repair booklets on Canadian pens. Where are they. Surely they had them.

Hi June,

For all practical purposes all the pens shown are Balance.

I tossed "Balance-like" as tribute of sorts to Daniel having (iirc) posted previously that late in the run of the 1929-41 Balance, Sheaffer stopped calling them "Balance", not that any other series name was used. The name simply was dropped. Are Balances which were not called Balance by Sheaffer still Balance? Probably. I just ran with it. Keep in mind- again iirc, the military pens with over-the-top clips are referred to by collectors as "military clip Balance" but iirc they too never were formally called "Balance" by Sheaffer.

The weird Canadian pen with clip shown on no Balance in USA, for which no one has claimed documentation? Who knows if Sheaffer called it Balance. But... it is still a Balance

It might (one can debate) be accurate to hedge on the name for late pens that reportedly no longer saw the use of the actual word, "Balance" in catalogues, but-- as I have often mentioned regarding Vacumatics-- "accurate" can be misleading in casual chat.

No doubt Daniel can clarify any errors here regarding Sheaffer's use of labels.

regards

David

[david i]

Also, I have not found any catalogues or repair booklets on Canadian pens. Where are they. Surely they had them.

I figure we are lucky to have what company literature we have 80 years after the fact

-d

[June H]

I figure we are lucky to have what company literature we have 80 years after the fact

-d

I understand now. I would like to know what the name of this clip on this striated brown Balance. Lifetime, lever filler triump nib made in Canada?


I would also like to know the name of this band on the second pen . Brown striated balance.wth what I think is a radius clip. Plunger filler triump nib made in the USA?

I do not have a large quanity of sheaffers. I suspect that this area didn't have a very pushy salesman. I must thank you for starting the discussion on the rose glow which I thought I had one and then on reading more now know I do not. But it got me checking out my entire collection of balance sheaffers and relabellng them all. Now each tag has a lot more information on them.
June

[david i]

I understand now. I would like to know what the name of this clip on this striated brown Balance. Lifetime, lever filler triump nib made in Canada?


I would also like to know the name of this band on the second pen . Brown striated balance.wth what I think is a radius clip. Plunger filler triump nib made in the USA?

I do not have a large quanity of sheaffers. I suspect that this area didn't have a very pushy salesman. I must thank you for starting the discussion on the rose glow which I thought I had one and then on reading more now know I do not. But it got me checking out my entire collection of balance sheaffers and relabellng them all. Now each tag has a lot more information on them.
June

Now we step into the 1940's. A messy era in Sheafferdom. Catalogues are sparse, and mostly retrospective at that. Adverts sometimes conflict. Verily, it is an interregnum of sorts (at least in retrospect, if such is possible) in Sheaffer collecting, a black hole avoided by avid collectors moving from 1930's Balance to 1950's Snorkel.

Happily, that begins to change.

I am way too tired now to do a recap of all we've discussed about 1940's Sheaffers, though there are some good threads in the Sheaffer section of Fountain Pen Board.

A basic division is to roughly label pens as War Years and Post War items.

Your pen on left is 1945-8 zone. Pen on right is 1942-5. note the pen on right might be a mix of short Triumph Tuckaway barrel with clip cap from long Triumph non-Tucky. Might be artifact of the image. Would need flat shot of it or at least barrel length (not counting section).

Pen on right with flush cap and wide cap-lip (not really a cap-band though often it is so referred) is Sheaffer Triumph (note the nib appears to take name from the model, not other way around). $12..50 pen made in five colors. There are higher range models done in limited colors, including Crest, Autograph (?formal name), Crest Masterpiece and Masterpiece. Cap-lip (band) really does not have a special name. Just the band correctly seen for this pen. That band is seen on clipless Tuckaway models too

Pen on left looks to be a Sheaffer Statesman from 1945-8 zone.

This era is complicated by frequent feature evolution and paucity of company data.

We are grossly overdue for survey article on this era.

Here are couple threads previously posted at the Board.

http://fountainpenbo...-cap-band-redux

http://fountainpenbo...-1940s-sheaffer

http://fountainpenbo...heaffer-triumph


regards

david

[June H]

Now we step into the 1940's. A messy era in Sheafferdom. Catalogues are sparse, and mostly retrospective at that. Adverts sometimes conflict. Verily, it is an interregnum of sorts (at least in retrospect, if such is possible) in Sheaffer collecting, a black hole avoided by avid collectors moving from 1930's Balance to 1950's Snorkel.

Happily, that begins to change.

I am way too tired now to do a recap of all we've discussed about 1940's Sheaffers, though there are some good threads in the Sheaffer section of Fountain Pen Board.

A basic division is to roughly label pens as War Years and Post War items.

Your pen on left is 1945-8 zone. Pen on right is 1942-5. note the pen on right might be a mix of short Triumph Tuckaway barrel with clip cap from long Triumph non-Tucky. Might be artifact of the image. Would need flat shot of it or at least barrel length (not counting section).

Pen on right with flush cap and wide cap-lip (not really a cap-band though often it is so referred) is Sheaffer Triumph (note the nib appears to take name from the model, not other way around). $12..50 pen made in five colors. There are higher range models done in limited colors, including Crest, Autograph (?formal name), Crest Masterpiece and Masterpiece. Cap-lip (band) really does not have a special name. Just the band correctly seen for this pen. That band is seen on clipless Tuckaway models too

Pen on left looks to be a Sheaffer Statesman from 1945-8 zone.

This era is complicated by frequent feature evolution and paucity of company data.

We are grossly overdue for survey article on this era.

Here are couple threads previously posted at the Board.

http://fountainpenbo...-cap-band-redux

http://fountainpenbo...-1940s-sheaffer

http://fountainpenbo...heaffer-triumph


regards

david

Hello David:
The measurements of the short brown striated widebanded balance with the straight clip has a barrel measurement of 6.2 cm not including the metal screw threads. There is a lot of interesting information to keep me going for a couple of days while you rest up. Thanks

[david i]

June,

Here is a shot of four Sheaffer Balance short slender models post 1935. Four tiers.

1) Lifetime
2) Feathertouch ni
3) "#3-nib
4) Junior

Note they essentially are the same pens. Different trim. Different nib assembly. Similar manufacturing values.

regards

David

[Roger W.]

June,

Here is a shot of four Sheaffer Balance short slender models post 1935. Four tiers.

1) Lifetime
2) Feathertouch ni
3) "#3-nib
4) Junior

Note they essentially are the same pens. Different trim. Different nib assembly. Similar manufacturing values.

regards

David

Your #4 is incorrect sir! It should have a Sheaffer Jr. clip.

Roger W.

[david i]

Your #4 is incorrect sir! It should have a Sheaffer Jr. clip.

Roger W.

In fact I had wondered on that. Did the clip evolve at some point? Or not

Guess I can live with having an uncommon reverse-trim pen though, instead of a common Junior... if I must.

-d