179 replies to this topic

[david i]

Then it would be most appropriate  for Mary to raise for conversation, if mattering to Mary is what matters, I figure...

 

regards

 

-d

[Hugh]

I agree with David, it's not such an issue. Still out of the two choices I suspect she left of her own accord, the generally high regard that a lot hold Mary in would have been a significant benefit to the brand in the US ( not to mention 10 yrs(?) experience and all those contacts). The negative has been the CS forum on FPN, once a well oiled marketing machine for CS, that's become more a showcase for poor quality control and unhappy customers, noting the move to a factory based contact as well ( hoping to fix issues before they end up on the forum?) . The lesson out of this is that having a dedicated forum to basically push your product isn't always such a good idea if you don't completely control it, as is at least it should provide a fair bit of incentive for the "new" crowd to get their QC under control which will benefit customers and the company.

 

Regards

Hugh

[AndyR]

Keen watchers of 'goings on' at Conway Stewart will note that Chris Care is no longer a director at Conway Stewart Manufacturing (UK) ltd., as of 27th June. She had been with CS for many years, and I believe she assumed increased responsibility after the administration. She had been production director at CS since January 2013.

 

Andy

[vintage penman]

Is this the end of the beginning .... or the beginning of the end ?

[The Good Captain]

Is this the end of the beginning .... or the beginning of the end ?

Correct: 'Never have so many been sent back, to so few.'

[AndyR]

You might have thought things were mellowing at the FPN CS forum. Not a bit of it, unfortunately.

 

MikeW raised some sensible and reasonable points for discussion over there, largely to point out that not all members have cause to believe Mary Burke's performance as moderator was as wonderful, 'above and beyond the call of duty', as some others seem to think, and he bravely decided to revisit the 'conflict of interest issue'. The 'powers that be' have decided to interpret these as 'personal attacks on Mary Burke' and given him a 2 week ban, while locking the topic.

 

http://www.fountainp...-2#entry3058472

 

I would like to say all this is beyond belief, but it is really as we might have expected - FPN seems to be blundering on in the time honoured way. I hope Mike comes over here to post, rather than returning to FPN suitably cowed, with tail between legs. He is a well-respected collector of both modern and vintage CS pens in Canada, and I'm sure his contributions would be most welcome here.

 

Andy

 

 

[Deb]

The entity that calls itself RichardandTracey seems to have lost its grip on reality in its expressions of ire and fury.  My, but they're brave little soldiers, these moderators, hiding behind the safety of their monitors!

[Hugh]

Remarkable, if predictable, stuff !! The COI stuff is interesting (given I've had a bit of experience in that area) and as someone pointed out probably never "technically" occurred the public perception that it did makes it a difficult to resolve point. Little doubt imo the FPN is it's own worst enemy especially in the CS Forum, fair dinkum....MB should simply pack her bags and leave, she was only ever a mod by her employment at CS and as far as I'm concerned I don't swallow the crap line "RichardandTracey" tries to peddle about "voluntary and no payment" when it's clear the CS Forum has significantly benefited CS.

 

A classic example of someone so engrossed with minor details the "big picture" simply passes them by. Amazing how trying to explain ones actions and reasons can make you look like a complete fool (and he's probably not btw) when explaining why FPN believes the various claims to be incorrect the clear and obvious course of action rather than a long winded attack on MikeW who has NO right of reply. Wouldn't it be great to front up to a "game" and find RichardandTracey and Ghost Plane as the "referees" on current form .....

 

Regards

Hugh

[JonSzanto]

What a fucking joke. The biggest personal attack and bout of incivility was RichardandTracy's thoroughly unprofessional screed against MikeW. The absurdity rivals that of Beckett.

[david i]

Hi guys,

I just want to touch base wearing my rarely used Ye Olde Admin hat. 

 

All told, this is a great thread.  Discussion of pen business and even of pen businesses is heart and soul to this Board.

 

Indeed, this thread has been pinned for ages and is  perhaps the most viewed discussion at FPB.

 

And, recognizing my own experiences and recognizing what I've tried to create here, I certainly welcome  issues-oriented deconstruction of the policies and silliness at other pen forums, such as the CS forum at FPN. 

 

But, it is time I believe  to let go of the personal sniping against my friend Mary.

 

Mary and  Christine left CS on the same day. I suspect they have strong views of what is going on at CS, but they have been courteous in their respective departures.

 

For all the poking here at Mary's tenure as a moderator at FPN, it seems the day she opted out, the critters that replaced her have been less tactful and more heavy handed in censoring the place. Given the overall context at FPN, this supports the notion that tone for moderation is set at a higher level.

 

Mary has been my friend in the hobby for about 15 years now.  She was well respected on internet news-groups and listservs before there were any online pen boards.  I actually sold pens for a bit that she distributed.  We've shared meals at pen shows for 15 years. 

 

While roles can be unpleasant, I know Mary to be a kind and gentle soul. If anything, I've long felt bad she was saddled with the thankless job of fronting for FPN policy and of having to juggle that with corporate work. 

Whatever arrangement FPN has with any pen maker for financing and how that colors its already rather hostile policies are fair game for conversation.

 

But, it is clear that FPN policy in the CS Forum was not created by Mary. Are things better there now?

 

So, as Mary has opted out of her role as moderator at FPN-- apparently despite being asked to stay on-- and as the FPN CS forum seems not to have changed its tone, arguing again that the dysfunction there comes from higher up, I request some chillin' out on the personal and somewhat Ad Hom hits on her.

Mary has been gracious in this matter. We can do the same.

 

I wish Mary well with her next venture.

 

I invite anyone who plays here to join us at pen shows and join both of us for dinner and drinks... get to know the real people behind what we imagine.

 

Fountain Pen Board has not closed any threads yet.  The one fellow banned probably has real psych issues and finally was let go after "screaming" X-rated and misogynistic versions of human body parts at many people over a simple disagreement.

 

I do want this board to be the least moderated pen forum around. I suspect that keeping wide open a thread that has shown a great deal of personal animosity to a personal friend has been a meaningful gesture in that direction.

 

But, a bit of balance is in order.

 

Do invite your latest group of pen collectors alienated and disparaged at other boards to come play here.  Do keep poking about at what is good and weak with pen makers.  But, let's wish Mary well in the next of her very good contributions to our hobby.

 

regards,

 

well... you know who

[AndyR]

David, thanks for your input, points noted, and I actually thought we had moved on, I for one would probably never have mentioned her name here again, had it not been for the local issues at FPN that I mentioned in post 166 above, where I was only paraphrasing the sentiments expressed by MikeW that got him into trouble, not personally sniping (if that is what you were referring to). But of course you must defend your friends, as I would do.

 

You seem to be in possession of more recent facts than most of us. According to the FPN 'richardandtracy' post of yesterday, Mary was still moderator over there - so has she now retired from the fray?

 

Andy

[Deb]

I hear what you say and I will comply with your wishes – after all this is your show and I'm very glad to be here.  However, in the interests of balance I think it needs to be said that a great deal of what has been discussed here in this thread is not actually against Mary.  My major concern was Conway Stewart's abuse of history which has, to their credit, been corrected.

An additional concern, which caused me to leave Fountain Pen Network, was the increasingly erratic and dictatorial behaviour of the admins together with the clear misuse of the Conway Stewart section of that board which became very largely free advertising for the present Conway Stewart company.  I fully agree that Mary is not responsible for FPN's policy but she went along with it.  So far as I can tell she removed herself from the role of admin not because of any concern about the ethics of the situation but because she no longer worked for Conway Stewart.

That's fair, I think.

Now that she has gone from FPN it seems unlikely that there will be any cause to refer to her here again, though the concerns about the role of Conway Stewart within FPN will doubtless continue to be expressed.

Edited by Deb, 22 July 2014 - 02:45 PM.

[JonSzanto]

Well put, David. I've been fortunate to separate issues from people, and am happy to have a convivial repartee with Mary on other social forums.

[david i]

David, thanks for your input, points noted, and I actually thought we had moved on, I for one would probably never have mentioned her name here again, had it not been for the local issues at FPN that I mentioned in post 166 above, where I was only paraphrasing the sentiments expressed by MikeW that got him into trouble, not personally sniping (if that is what you were referring to). But of course you must defend your friends, as I would do.

 

You seem to be in possession of more recent facts than most of us. According to the FPN 'richardandtracy' post of yesterday, Mary was still moderator over there - so has she now retired from the fray?

 

Andy

 

I could be mistaken regarding Mary continuing at FPN.  I have not read that thread closely, just a post or two that had been linked from here, and that only at glance.

 

regards

 

david

[david i]

I hear what you say and I will comply with your wishes – after all this is your show and I'm very glad to be here.  However, in the interests of balance I think it needs to be said that a great deal of what has been discussed here in this thread is not actually against Mary.  My major concern was Conway Stewart's abuse of history which has, to their credit, been corrected.

An additional concern, which caused me to leave Fountain Pen Network, was the increasingly erratic and dictatorial behaviour of the admins together with the clear misuse of the Conway Stewart section of that board which became very largely free advertising for the present Conway Stewart company.  I fully agree that Mary is not responsible for FPN's policy but she went along with it.  So far as I can tell she removed herself from the role of admin not because of any concern about the ethics of the situation but because she no longer worked for Conway Stewart.

That's fair, I think.

Now that she has gone from FPN it seems unlikely that there will be any cause to refer to her here again, though the concerns about the role of Conway Stewart within FPN will doubtless continue to be expressed.

 

 

Hi Deb,

 

I certainly am not objecting to the bulk of this thread. By all means, discuss the company, the history of the company, etc.  But, unless hard info is available about Mary-- and even then unless such info is necessary and decent to discuss-- i believe we don't need the personal hits there.

 

I greatly look forward to ongoing chat about FPN, the CS forum, the tactics used there to "moderate" etc.  Where CS is heading is of interest to me.

 

regards

 

d

[AndyR]

What a fucking joke. The biggest personal attack and bout of incivility was RichardandTracy's thoroughly unprofessional screed against MikeW. The absurdity rivals that of Beckett.

It doesn't seem like you are going to enjoy a 'convivial repartee' with richardandtracy anywhere soon though, Jon!

 

[JonSzanto]

It doesn't seem like you are going to enjoy a 'convivial repartee' with richardandtracy anywhere soon though, Jon!

 

Ya think?

[Hugh]

I note the last topic that's drawn our attention has been removed. On the CS forum: trying to combine two separate CSs, a company employee/part owner,advertising , customer service and the (ever changing) FPN administration was always going to be a difficult task to run effectively, that it was (or appeared to be) the most heavily moderated forum indicates it was a failure. Two basic failures appear obvious, the treatment of the original CS (the pinned topics show a clear bias with only one vintage CS pinned thanks to Andy's persistence) and the difficulties faced by a company representative and negative posts which was sidestepped by having someone else do the "dirty work". By the end of CS involvement there where no winners, vintage CS still languished with most of the serious collectors gone, modern CS lost it's ability to advertise due to rule changes ,the forum dominated by QC/service issues and a toxic/fractured user base . Unfortunately Mary was in the "thick", that it had so many issues is not actually a poor reflection on her as no one aligned with CS could have managed it but more a clear indication of an idea being implemented without fully considering the possible outcomes and not addressing them when the failings became obvious her only real failing. Still she carries the "baggage". Personally I feel she should now "walk away" from the CS forum and allow it a new start with a new moderator that has a closer connection with both vintage CS and the UK.

 

I note David's comments and stress any comments I've made regarding Mary should be seen in the context of the CS forum. If there are comments that (David thinks) fall outside that I'm more than happy to address them in a positive manner and either retract them or explain reasoning.

 

Regards

Hugh

[dneal]

You guys are slipping.     This news broke on FPN... 

 

Conway Stewart in Administration

[mawcatax]

I posted his same reference in a new topic - http://fountainpenbo...-adminstration/ but there have been no other replies to it.

Mike