9 replies to this topic

[kraz]

Hello all,

I have been building a nice mini-collection of Lady Patricia overlay pens. I think they're great pens that are largely undervalued or overlooked. Others can weigh in on that.

I find them charming because they come after the "standard overlays" of the 1920s and earlier. They're small, but they have clips. They were top-of-the-line, but ladies pens. And they came in some great patterns. To date, I have the following:

* Sheraton (alternating lined and smooth areas) in sterling
* Sheraton in gold-filled
* Basketweave (or bamboo) in sterling
* Basketweave (or bamboo) in gold-filled
* Bay Leaf in sterling
* Cable-twist in sterling

So, the question is, are there other patterns that are either documented or have shown up? I'm particularly interested to know if the pen came in a smooth overlay like the 494s and 594s of the same period, and whether any 14K versions have been found.

All responses welcome. And while I'm on the topic, has anyone ever found an overlay Patrician (or evidence thereof)?

Regards,

Jeff in Boston














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[david i]

Hello all,

I have been building a nice mini-collection of Lady Patricia overlay pens. I think they're great pens that are largely undervalued or overlooked. Others can weigh in on that.

I find them charming because they come after the "standard overlays" of the 1920s and earlier. They're small, but they have clips. They were top-of-the-line, but ladies pens. And they came in some great patterns. To date, I have the following:

* Sheraton (alternating lined and smooth areas) in sterling
* Sheraton in gold-filled
* Basketweave (or bamboo) in sterling
* Basketweave (or bamboo) in gold-filled
* Bay Leaf in sterling
* Cable-twist in sterling

So, the question is, are there other patterns that are either documented or have shown up? I'm particularly interested to know if the pen came in a smooth overlay like the 494s and 594s of the same period, and whether any 14K versions have been found.

All responses welcome. And while I'm on the topic, has anyone ever found an overlay Patrician (or evidence thereof)?

Regards,

Jeff in Boston

Hi Jeff,


To best of my knowledge... no other patterns and no overlay Patrician.


In fact, the Lady Patricia and 94-like pens (not clear they were formally "94" series) are odd ducks. The only info I have on them suggests they are very late production- 1940- but I have vague recollection that the date mark on the only catalogue page I've seen might not have been original to it. I must hunt the page after I unpack in the new apartment.


I've not seen catalogue page for Bay Leaf iirc, but have seen pen.


The Lady Patricia is so named in that catalogue page but the metal 94-ish pens are not called by any 94-series name. To me and to most collectors in retrospect they look enough like that pen that it seems reasonable to call them that.


I agree these are neat pens. Here is an example so those unfamiliar can get sense of what we discuss

regards


David


To b

[kraz]

David,

With regard to the 94-ish pens, they are quite clearly 94s, as they are marked "494" and "594" on the bottom, exactly as they should be. So while the styling varies a little from the plastic pens, they were (at least in Waterman's eyes) extensions of the 94 series.

Regards,

Jeff

[david i]

David,

With regard to the 94-ish pens, they are quite clearly 94s, as they are marked "494" and "594" on the bottom, exactly as they should be. So while the styling varies a little from the plastic pens, they were (at least in Waterman's eyes) extensions of the 94 series.

Regards,

Jeff

Jeff,

If they are so marked, than that indeed is strong evidence indeed for their place in the 94 Family.

I have one such pen , which would be an 0594 Gothic or Sheraton, cannot recall now. Will have to check for imprint on bottom, but believe it had none. And, again, the one Waterman original page I have on these does not call them "94", though it does assign Lady Patricia overlays the Lady Patricia name. Certainly this shows again that there is more to taxonomy than any single sheet of company literature.

regards

d

[david i]

Jaff had mentioned Waterman 94 overlay/metal pens along with Lady Patricia. A Lady Patricia is shown above.

Here is a silver 94 (494) in Sheraton (lines) pattern that I shot long ago, probably around 2002

regards

David

[matt]

Jeff,

Please post some photos! Here's a cable twist and a bay leaf set Gery Lehrer listed in last year:

http://www.gopens.co...alog56/c56b.jpg

[David Nishimura]

At the top of page 12 of the Christmas 1935 Pen Prophet, Waterman announced "Lady Patricia's Debut in Sterling Silver". The model illustrated was a Cable Twist, the pen at $12, the pencil at $8. Also mentioned was a plain version at $10 and $5. The order form at the end of the issue listed only these two overlay models of the Lady Patricia, so apparently the other patterns and the gold filled versions were introduced later.

The Christmas 1936 Pen Prophet introduces the 494 Bay Leaf.

I put together a collection of overlay Lady Patricias some years ago. Patterns that haven't been mentioned yet in this thread include Gothic in both silver and gold filled. Would not be surprised to see a 14K version of any of these, but to my knowledge, none have turned up to date.

[David Nishimura]

Regarding the 494/0594/594 series, there is also confusion with the similarly-styled #2-size overlays numbered 403/0503/503.

PS I believe the pen in the photo above belongs to the latter series, not the former. The former typically have the barrel overlay covering the entire posting end of the barrel, with no exposed hard rubber (or celluloid, as is the case with the later production pens). They are also considerably less common than the #2-size overlays.

[kraz]

Regarding the 494/0594/594 series, there is also confusion with the similarly-styled #2-size overlays numbered 403/0503/503.

PS I believe the pen in the photo above belongs to the latter series, not the former. The former typically have the barrel overlay covering the entire posting end of the barrel, with no exposed hard rubber (or celluloid, as is the case with the later production pens). They are also considerably less common than the #2-size overlays.

Hi David,

Your basketweave LP overlay is quite nice. The other silver pen you posted the photo of is clearly a 403 (a charming pen in its own right). I have a matching pencil (402?) in basketweave with an inscription dated 1944. One of the things I like about this series is that they are anomalous -- they have the characteristics of the overlays of the 1920s, only they were made 10 or 20 years later.

The 94 overlays were all fully overlayed at the bottom of the barrel, as far as I know. I will post some photos when I get a chance .

I would love to see your catalog pages of the Lady Patricia and 94-style pen overlays. I would be grateful if you could send a jpg or two.

Thanks in advance,

Jeff
Jeff@KrasnerHealth.com

[david i]

Regarding the 494/0594/594 series, there is also confusion with the similarly-styled #2-size overlays numbered 403/0503/503.

PS I believe the pen in the photo above belongs to the latter series, not the former. The former typically have the barrel overlay covering the entire posting end of the barrel, with no exposed hard rubber (or celluloid, as is the case with the later production pens). They are also considerably less common than the #2-size overlays.

Would not shock me if I'm confusing "03" overlays with "94" overlays. At risk of invoking hidden pens, I have at least one overlay of this general sort hiding in the collection. Once the Pen Room is uncrated, I should be able to image the pen set and post copy of that "1940" catalogue page.

regards

david