Jump to content


Photo

Learning my lesson about modern pens


  • Please log in to reply
34 replies to this topic

#21 mhphoto

mhphoto

    Newbie

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 5 posts

Posted 25 April 2013 - 06:11 AM

I agree with the weight issues of modern pens, but what's the problem with writing un-posted? Unless you just have huge hands that need the extra length, not posting shouldn't really affect you if the pen is just too top heavy when posted. I generally don't post the caps, but there are certain models that always get posted out of necessity: four W452½V's, an even smaller MT Swan, and the ridiculously tiny Peter Pan.

#22 cedargirl

cedargirl

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 31 posts
  • LocationAustralia

Posted 25 April 2013 - 06:30 AM

Some people just like to post their pens - for those people the extra weight is a problem.
There are probably just as many reasons why people post as reasons why not to post. I'ts personal preference.
(I prefer not to.)
------------------------
Claire

#23 stevekolt

stevekolt

    greenhorn

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 16 posts
  • LocationNJ - Soon to be WV

Posted 25 April 2013 - 08:57 PM

Wow, I'm either incredibly lucky or incredibly naive! I am new to FP's, within the last 2-3 months or so. All my pens are new (Montblanc, Visconti, Lamy, Pilot, Montaverde) and I like them all. After reading this thread, I am almost afraid to try an older pen for fear that I will no longer appreciate the ones I have now...

#24 david i

david i

    ADVISOR

  • ADVISORS
  • 7,515 posts
  • LocationEast Coast USA

Posted 25 April 2013 - 09:06 PM

Wow, I'm either incredibly lucky or incredibly naive! I am new to FP's, within the last 2-3 months or so. All my pens are new (Montblanc, Visconti, Lamy, Pilot, Montaverde) and I like them all. After reading this thread, I am almost afraid to try an older pen for fear that I will no longer appreciate the ones I have now...


Hi Steve,

Collecting is a very subjective process. We like what we like, and as long as one pursues what he likes in reasonable fashion (yeah, i know, go define THAT), there can be no right or wrong. Gaining knowledge about authenticity, condition, pricing all help make for satisfying collecting.

Old pens (the line between old and new can be fuzzy) offer certain charms that I myself find lacking in modern pens. But also there are challenges. Old pens were not intrinsically more fragile than modern, indeed in many respects one can argue they were better made (also a chat for another day), but 70 year old plastic indeed can be quite fragile. Old pens are at risk for hidden repairs, parts mixes, poor description in sales, etc.

But, most modern pens owe something to old pens. That "Power filler" found in Visconti today? Take a peek at Sheaffer's 1935 plunger-filler ;)

Old pens offer wonderful look into the history of writing instruments. Often (not always, now) they are quite afffordable relative to modern pens. They are worth consideration no doubt. :)

regards

david
David R. Isaacson MD. Website: VACUMANIA.com for quality old pens with full warranty.
Email: isaacson@frontiernet.net

Posted Image

#25 stevekolt

stevekolt

    greenhorn

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 16 posts
  • LocationNJ - Soon to be WV

Posted 25 April 2013 - 10:51 PM


Wow, I'm either incredibly lucky or incredibly naive! I am new to FP's, within the last 2-3 months or so. All my pens are new (Montblanc, Visconti, Lamy, Pilot, Montaverde) and I like them all. After reading this thread, I am almost afraid to try an older pen for fear that I will no longer appreciate the ones I have now...


Hi Steve,

Collecting is a very subjective process. We like what we like, and as long as one pursues what he likes in reasonable fashion (yeah, i know, go define THAT), there can be no right or wrong. Gaining knowledge about authenticity, condition, pricing all help make for satisfying collecting.

Old pens (the line between old and new can be fuzzy) offer certain charms that I myself find lacking in modern pens. But also there are challenges. Old pens were not intrinsically more fragile than modern, indeed in many respects one can argue they were better made (also a chat for another day), but 70 year old plastic indeed can be quite fragile. Old pens are at risk for hidden repairs, parts mixes, poor description in sales, etc.

But, most modern pens owe something to old pens. That "Power filler" found in Visconti today? Take a peek at Sheaffer's 1935 plunger-filler ;)

Old pens offer wonderful look into the history of writing instruments. Often (not always, now) they are quite afffordable relative to modern pens. They are worth consideration no doubt. :)

regards

david


David,
Thank you for such a wonderfully thought out and well written response. I think I would have to attend a pen show/meeting to really understand the differences before taking the plunge. At least the newer pens come with a warranty, and if repairs are needed they would be covered by the manufacturer.




#26 entertainment

entertainment

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 67 posts

Posted 26 April 2013 - 12:50 AM



Wow, I'm either incredibly lucky or incredibly naive! I am new to FP's, within the last 2-3 months or so. All my pens are new (Montblanc, Visconti, Lamy, Pilot, Montaverde) and I like them all. After reading this thread, I am almost afraid to try an older pen for fear that I will no longer appreciate the ones I have now...


Hi Steve,

Collecting is a very subjective process. We like what we like, and as long as one pursues what he likes in reasonable fashion (yeah, i know, go define THAT), there can be no right or wrong. Gaining knowledge about authenticity, condition, pricing all help make for satisfying collecting.

Old pens (the line between old and new can be fuzzy) offer certain charms that I myself find lacking in modern pens. But also there are challenges. Old pens were not intrinsically more fragile than modern, indeed in many respects one can argue they were better made (also a chat for another day), but 70 year old plastic indeed can be quite fragile. Old pens are at risk for hidden repairs, parts mixes, poor description in sales, etc.

But, most modern pens owe something to old pens. That "Power filler" found in Visconti today? Take a peek at Sheaffer's 1935 plunger-filler ;)

Old pens offer wonderful look into the history of writing instruments. Often (not always, now) they are quite afffordable relative to modern pens. They are worth consideration no doubt. :)

regards

david


David,
Thank you for such a wonderfully thought out and well written response. I think I would have to attend a pen show/meeting to really understand the differences before taking the plunge. At least the newer pens come with a warranty, and if repairs are needed they would be covered by the manufacturer.




But many sellers of vintage pens also offer warranties and getting them to honor the warranty is probably easier than with a big manufacturer.

#27 Christof Z

Christof Z

    journeyman

  • Members
  • 390 posts
  • LocationConfoederatio Helvetica

Posted 26 April 2013 - 06:39 AM

For building a collection one has to Focus. One of my main collecting criterias is: "vintage only".

Well, collecting is one Thing. Writing with fountain pens is a different thing. That's why I also tested lots of modern pens. One of my favourite modern pens is the Parker Duofold Centennial. I've been interested in comparing one of these with a vintage Duofold, that's why I catched this pen when it appeared for a reasonable Price.

Posted Image

The modern Duofold is an unbelieveable well made pen (unbelieveable well for our time...). Every part is manufactured on the lathe! No injection mold plastic, just solid material. I love that. But.... when it comes to writing Qualitys, it's....well, umm, ....boring. Smooth but hard nib and dry inkflow. That's why I sold this one as fast as I took the Pictures of it.

I0ve tried many other modern pens and there are still two in my daily Rotation (LAmy SAfari and Sailor Sapporo mini) but nothing compares to some of my vintage pens! I have at least three Parker "51" inked permanently and a Pelikan 400 from the 50's with a flexible steno nib. Have a look at this:

Posted Image



So my experience is: Nothing compares to vintage pens! For collecting AND writing.

Edited by Christof Z, 26 April 2013 - 06:42 AM.


#28 Silviu

Silviu

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 31 posts
  • LocationIsrael

Posted 29 April 2013 - 02:25 AM

I'm collecting and using vintage FP myself, but still, I own 3 modern FP. I think I can heartily recommend the Aurora Optima as a well balanced & reliable FP. In my opinion one can consider owning one if he has to venture into the modern FP area, and not beeing too disappointed.
My other modern FP is a M800 and though I agree it's a bit heavy, I enjoy writing with it also.
Silviu

#29 jkingrph

jkingrph

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 61 posts
  • LocationE. Texas, NE Louisiana

Posted 29 April 2013 - 10:03 PM

Personally I like both, the only thing I have that seems too heavy is a Montblanc Legrand Silver Barley Dueo. The silver cap just totally unbalances the pen, but it is very attractive. I like the modern Montblanc and Pelikan pens, along with the Japanese Platinum models. In older pens, I have a nice by some standards, accumulation of Schaffers, including a silver/black Imperial cartridge model I used in college back in the mid 1960's, Parkers, Vacumatics and 51's, including one 51 that was my fathers back in the 1950's, an assortment of Esterbrooks, then some Cross, and Conway Stewarts. I really like some of the colors and plastic patterns that are found in the older Conway Stewart models.
Regards


Jeff

#30 Smokin

Smokin

    greenhorn

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 18 posts

Posted 08 January 2014 - 03:08 PM

All my pens are "modern" pens and I love them. Well, except for the Mabie Todd Rialto I bought. Too danged heavy and writes really "wet". So far I use my German (Pelikan Techinxx) or Japanese ( Platinum, Sailor or Namiki) more than anything. Also like my Lamy Safari pens.



#31 Mike Hosea

Mike Hosea

    journeyman

  • Members
  • 135 posts

Posted 08 January 2014 - 03:44 PM

That was a nice thread to reopen.  I hadn't read it.  My take is that from a user perspective, generalizing about "modern" versus "vintage" is going to lead to over-generalizing almost every time.  Weight is important.  It's one reason why I don't use my Sheaffer Preludes anymore and also one reason why my Sheaffer OS Balances delight me.  It's also one reason why I have a hard time really liking any of the modern Chinese pens I've tried. OTOH, I really can't complain about the weight and balance of my Bexley and Gate City Belmont pens, nor about my Sailor Pro Gear and 1911.  That might not be instructive, though, since the Bexley/GSB pens were designed by guys who know vintage pens, and the Sailor 1911 (and Pro Gear by extension--just different ends) is an "homage" to the Montblanc 146.



#32 pajaro

pajaro

    greenhorn

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 19 posts

Posted 12 February 2014 - 03:11 AM

The main problem I have with modern pens is the tendency in many of them to dry out too quickly in writing pauses and overnight.  Parker Sonnet to 51 comparison, for example.  Modern Pelikans and some other pens stay moist longer.  This drying up issue is a real aggravation.I don't care about the weight of some modern pens.  I get used to it.  The Pelikan M640 Northern Lights is a pleasant pen to use.  The nibs for this series are quite special.

 

The drying out of modern nibs did push me to use my 51s more and to use the Sonnets less.  The Sheaffer Prelude, weight apart, dries up also, and the Imperial Touchdown pens are better.  Even the Touchdown Cadet is a better pen for staying moist longer and not needing much to get started if dry.  All the modern pens I have used are a nuisance about drying out except Montblanc and Pelikan.  A very few Sonnets have been sort of passable.  I prefer Sheaffer Touchdowns and Parker 51s, Pelikan M200/400 and Montblanc 144 and 146.

 

I almost think makers have forgotten how to make nib and feed work properly.



#33 Mike Hosea

Mike Hosea

    journeyman

  • Members
  • 135 posts

Posted 12 February 2014 - 04:30 AM

I almost think makers have forgotten how to make nib and feed work properly.

 

There's precious little thought to it, anymore, I'm afraid, as makers of moderately-priced modern pens seem to be relying on one or two nib and feed manufacturers.   Ebonite really does seem near ideal feed material, but plastic is ubiquitous now even though it is less adjustable and less good in most respects.  One hears stories of Montblancs going in for repair with ebonite feeds and coming out with plastic feeds, to the great annoyance of those who knew enough to notice.  Having said that, when properly adjusted, I don't have any problems with the JoWo nibs and feeds.  If there's a dryout problem, it's the cap to blame.  Most of my Bexleys are pretty good, though the Poseidon Magnums have the breather hole drilled in the nib area rather than the grip area of the cap, which is bad.  I've plugged them up with shellac, but I haven't drilled any new holes, so there's a little bit of a pneumatic drag when capping and uncapping.  FWIW, my Sailor pens are never hard starters, nor are my lowly Sheaffer No Nonsense pens.  Platinum has put a lot of thought into the cap design with the 3776's slip-n-seal mechanism, but I think there's something not-quite-right about the (newer) Platinum feed that I haven't quite figured out how to deal with.  Mine sometimes skips on the first downstroke.  I don't think there's enough left of a baby's bottom the nib came with to account for it, as I did remove a lot of it.  This is another thing modern pen makers are doing, over-polishing the tip.  Yeah, it's smooth when they do that.  No, it's not all good.  :)



#34 penmanila

penmanila

    journeyman

  • Members
  • 618 posts
  • LocationManila/Virginia/San Diego

Posted 12 February 2014 - 05:07 AM

my collection (200+) still predominantly consists of vintage pens, mainly parker vacs and duofolds, but modern pens are inching up in my roster, for what i think is good reason. sure, they have some issues, but on the whole i find them better built and more reliable workhorses than my vintage ones. of course when we say "vintage" we're looking at pens whose parts are 60-80+ years old and are showing signs of wear and stress, and who knows how the moderns will be like that much time from now? these comparisons are inherently invidious, so i'll speak just for myself and my experience.

 

my modern montblancs are wonderful performers--i can leave my 149, 146, or my agatha for a month and expect it to write at the first stroke as soon as i uncap it. i like their weight--especially the agatha and the wilde. i don't post my pens so "weight" simply means the barrel in the hand for me.

 

my modern conway stewarts have gorgeous nibs--smooth, wet, and springy, as does my pelikan M1000. the only thing i don't like about the new CS pens is that they're too light in the hand--the churchill would be perfect if they added, say, 10-15 grams more to the barrel weight. that's where the new onoto magna beats the CS, in that onoto offers a heavier version for some of its offerings.

 

and yes, i do like converters. my modern CS pens are lever fillers, and i can appreciate the charm of the thing, but with the onoto magna, i can check how much ink i have left and switch ink colors on the fly, just because it uses a converter. 

 

properly adjusted and tweaked, and superflex nibs aside, i'd be hard put to tell a vintage from a modern nib just by the line it lays  down on the page.

 

i've said enough here to kindle half a dozen arguments, but these, again, are just my personal observations and preferences. if it's any indication, the only vintage pen remaining in my daily rotation are a burgundy vac OS and a vac senior max. 


Check out my pens here and my blog here.

#35 Saleem ali

Saleem ali

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 44 posts

Posted 12 February 2014 - 04:27 PM

First of all ,it is very hard to be very dogmatic to label a pen vintage or modren .( kindly see my earlier posts in discussion of "what is considerd modern" ?)  .A very important consideration for love of  vintage pens is our association with past , to most of us as we grow older and older , past attraction enhances day by day . And  our vintage pens remind us  some very " good old " days  we have had in the past.  I hiighly appreciate  the past craftsmans for their adorable work , without much sophisticated tchnologies they produced pens of lasting intrest and appeal. But , so-called modern pens cannot be outrightly rejected  as our friend Christof z tempts ! Many modern pens are also lovely writers and collectible . One thing which bothers me is over-sizing trend of pen-makers  , which some manufactures are probably exploiting ,so that you have very over-size pens which at times donot suit users personlaity or writing style .Last , but not the least, warranty periods of modern pen-makers is very short , "limited  02 years warranty " , on a very expensive pen should not justify.


Edited by Saleem ali, 12 February 2014 - 04:34 PM.





0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users