17 replies to this topic

[david i]

Many readers know I actively hunt Sheaffer Balance pens with off-catalogue trim, particularly pens with double cap-band, with (apparent) triple cap-band, with wide fish-scale cap-band, with unusually wide smooth single cap-band , with solid gold cap-band on colors not documented with such trim, and yes, even some examples of the most common cap-band pattern in this category, the wide lined "Jeweler's" cap-band (noting that there have been arguments made that the "Jeweler's" label can be applied in general to the fancy bands).

We've had a few threads about these pens, such as the following:

• Double Band Balance in Ebonized Pearl and Marine Green
• Double band Desk Pen, Collection View and References to Sheaffer Data
• Several lined "Jeweler's" Cap-Band pens and discussion of cap-band width

I grab nice examples when I can. Here are some of them

Also, most collectors are aware that White-Dot Balances feature nibs stamped "Lifetime". I've seen occasional anomalous non-White-Dot oversized Balance pens (OS was catalogued only with White Dot iirc) that feature non-Lifetime nibs, early 5-30 points with thickened gripping section to accommodate smaller nib and with perhaps slightly smaller-than-Lifetime, Feathertouch #7 nibs (vs the Feathertouch #5 generally associated with the non-Lifetime standard size pens).

Well, recently a Marine Green OS Balance with double cap-band popped up on Ebay. I spotted it early enough for a change to have time to ask questions. Turns out the pen had-- as is too common to this color-- a couple cap-lip hairlines. I bought it anyway. It is a fairly rare pen and was priced reasonably even with the hairlines. Additionally it packed a bonus feature.

I won't be coy and play "what's up" using standard photos. The charm of this pen is the presence of a Feathertouch #8 nib. There has been occasional online mention of such a beast. I'm not sure images have been posted before. Even if images have been shown, this is a fine time for a freshening of the material.

We can discuss the significance of finding a non-Lifetime Lifetime-sized two-tone nib in an off-catalogue-trim Lifetime pen.

But, I just find it neat. The #8 FT nib will go nicely with my #7 FT nib found in my OS non-White-Dot pen for show-and-tell.

Here are some shots (click to enlarge if the board ware shrinks it):

regards

david

[Pedro]

A replacement, no doubt as it is indeed a lifetime pen (white dot) and being OS (although non-lifetime OS exist).
Also of note is that the pen had to be more expensive than the regular line, as it has the double deco bands.
I have never seen such a large Feathertouch nib, matching the size of the OS nibs. Must be unusual enough.
A special order? Did the owner splurge on the visible white dot and double bands, while saving on the nib?

[david i]

A replacement, no doubt as it is indeed a lifetime pen (white dot) and being OS (although non-lifetime OS exist).
Also of note is that the pen had to be more expensive than the regular line, as it has the double deco bands.
I have never seen such a large Feathertouch nib, matching the size of the OS nibs. Must be unusual enough.
A special order? Did the owner splurge on the visible white dot and double bands, while saving on the nib?

Hi Pedro,

While a replacement (meaning in this case "after the fact, not with manufacturer's intent") is a possibility, from my view it is not a given. That would be... too easy

While there have been occasional (really occasional) online references to the #8-FT nib, possibly in setting of anomalous non-white-dot (non "lifetime") oversized pens, I am aware of no Sheaffer information about this nib. There is no "routine" model to hold such a monster, no catalogued pen appearance. If it were "just" a replacement, what would be then the donor?

Feathertouch (FT) nibs are catalogued as #5 size for Balance in 2nd tier Full Size and Slender pens; really need to check to see if the nib is same size in both full size and slender pens, but both pens have the #5 on the nib.

I believe I have a #7 FT nib in one of my off-catalogue non-White-Dot oversized pens (OS catalogued only as White Dot with Lifetime nib). But, the pen shown today has the first FT #8 nib I've scored.

I've thus seen far fewer of this nib than I have all those rare cap-band pens we discuss.

So, off-catalogue nib OS sized (more or less) and off-catalogue pen possibly made for limited market (a store, a season, etc), with no obvious donor pen to cough up the nib.

If the nib were some sort of monster flex, one might hypothesize the #8 FT was offered as a special point alternative to conventional nib. But this one is firm and does not seem to have any exotic cut.

But, I must consider original presence, given the nature of the pen and the nib. We are-- for Balance trivia-- more than a couple standard deviations from the mean now, no doubt

Fun stuff.

-d

[matt]

You've shown previously that these off-catalog jeweler's band pens had their own higher price structure and probably their own model names (of which we may only know one). But how do you explain the non-Lifetime nib and the white dot w/o contradicting yourself?

[david i]

You've shown previously that these off-catalog jeweler's band pens had their own higher price structure and probably their own model names (of which we may only know one). But how do you explain the non-Lifetime nib and the white dot w/o contradicting yourself?

Hi Matt,

I believe I've made no statements that are mutually contradicting. Rather, I've tossed out some observations and proposed- softly- a hypothesis.

If my hypothesis is wrong-- not that it is an easy one to prove right or wrong absent company info -- so be it, but still I see no self contradiction.

My core thesis is that, "This white-dot OS Balance very well could have an original NON-Lifetime nib, this exotic FT #8, despite Balance being catalogued with Lifetime nibs for pens that have the White Dot"

I'll toss out some notions to clarify this, as well as to address your comments about price structure, and I will address again my hypothesis.

First, I know of no documentation by Sheaffer for a Feather Touch #8 nib. For me, then, its role on any pen entails... hypothesis.

Second, I know of no price documentation or model name documentation for pocket pens with double cap-band, with triple cap-band and with fish-scale cap-band. I have seen a couple of the lined "Jeweler's" cap-band items featuring different model names, codes (iirc) and/or price point. The OS Jeweler's cap-band pen with white dot indeed costs more than typical White Dot OS. Of course, given the hypothesis in play, the price point of any of these pens does not have relevance. IF a non-Lifetime (FT #8) nib was matched by Sheaffer with intent to a white-dot pen (which would usually get a Lifetime nib), then the usual price of the white-dot pen with usual Lifetime nib... would not bear on that decision.

Third, again, I know of no Balance (or other Sheaffer pen) routinely shown with a FT-#8 nib. Thus, there seems to be no obvious donor from which a replacement-- as we conventionally consider the notion, meaning a collector swap or after-manufacture dealer repair or in this case even deliberate swap at time of sale by dealer-- could have been taken. In fact, this is the first FT #8 nib I've handled or noticed handling, amongst thousands of Sheaffers seen over the years. Whatever the story is with it, it would seem not to follow usual "rules". This leaves fair room for hypotheses to explain the finding.

Fourth, the pen in question is a low-run, "fancy cap-band" item. Things don't always follow catalogue routine for this sort. IIRC, Clips vary from the bland routine catalogue norm (smooth flat ball clips, etc). The usual clip-nib linkage (eg. expecting to find a #3 nib or Junior with flat-ball clip during the proper era or finding a FT #5 nib at least for radius clip non white dot present) can fail. This too seems to leave door open for other anomalies.

Fifth, the nib appears clearly intended for an OS Pen. The pen in question is an OS pen. There is no other documented OS pen to have this nib.

Linking what essentially is a "weird" Balance to a "weird" Balance nib that physically fits and which has no obvious donor source (no other model with this nib; and this being in fact the first of this nib I've handled), is not a huge jump.

The major objection to my hypothesis of "originality" is a fair concern- that Sheaffer during Balance era did not catalogue White-Dot pens with non-Lifetime nibs. This matters, but the presence of this objection does not mean I'm contradicting myself or that my hypothesis is wrong. It is, rather, a counterpoint

While Sheaffer's warranty presumably varied from Lifetime to FT nibs, that this pen was some sort of niche item means that Sheaffer very well could have dealt with pens with this nib as it chose. Perhaps it honored the higher level warranty. Perhaps the pen was sold at bit of discount with more limited warranty despite the white dot... in this case the nib would dictate treatment if returned for repair.

I do have vague recollection of discussion of earlier flat top Lifetime pens being issued with non-Lifetime points when customers wished flex nibs. I'll have to defer that chat to Roger, unless someone finds the thread for a link.

I really am swamped getting paperwork in order for the next hospital, but later this week, if the pens are in my collection and not my to-be-restored pile, I will try to pull some Jeweler's cap-band pens for which the nib and clip do not classically "match".

Thoughts?

regards

david

[matt]

Thanks for the clarification. I realized the above was your best guess, so when I asked how you would avoid contradicting yourself, it would have been better to have asked how Sheaffer would have avoided contradicting itself with a Feather Touch nib on a white dot pen. But since we know so little about these fancy band pens to begin with....

Does a non-WD OS Balance, what few are known, "normally" have a size 7 nib?

Edited by matt, 30 November 2011 - 06:43 PM.

[PatM]

Great pen, David. It seems that I have seen a FT #8 nib previously but I sure haven't been able to find it anywhere in my collection to this point. Regardless, that seems to be a tough nib to find, and in a unique configuration with the pen. My guess is that it is the original configuration for the pen simply because there are other unique configurations out there and all the size of the nib makes sense for the pen.

What I have come up with thus far are 5 unusual OS pens:

1 - WD OS later marine green (green striated) with a non-Lifetime nib. Nib simply marked Sheaffer's 14k. I can't see the base of the nib but to my eye there is no size indicated.
2 - two mid-30s (flat ball clip) OS ebonized pearl pens both without white dots and with essentially the same nib as the pen in 1 above.
3 - No WD early marine green OS balance with a Lifetime nib, which appears to be the same size as all three of the pens above.
4 - No WD Jade OS balance with Lifetime nib. This nib is all gold versus the two-toned nibs on the four pens above, and it appears to be a smidge smaller.

I'll get some images shot over the next day or so and post them.

Pat

[david i]

Thanks for the clarification. I realized the above was your best guess, so when I asked how you would avoid contradicting yourself, it would have been better to have asked how Sheaffer would have avoided contradicting itself with a Feather Touch nib on a white dot pen. But since we know so little about these fancy band pens to begin with....

Does a non-WD OS Balance, what few are known, "normally" have a size 7 nib?

Hi Matt,

I'm not sure what is normal for the abnormal non-White-Dot oversized pens that occasionally turn up. I own two. One indeed has a FT #7 nib. It is an Ebonized Pearl pen. An earlier color, Grey Pearl (gray with red veins) has a smaller typical pre-FT 5-30 nib. The gripping section is thick walled to house the small nib.

Whether all non-WD OS pens up to certain year had 5-30, then switched to FT- #7 ???

Idunno.

Will help to hear of or find more examples, I guess. Again, the charm of this sort of discussion is that we are well away from the Main Sequence. The helium burn will get you every time

-d

[david i]

OK.

Here are couple images of the two non-white-dot oversized pens in my collection.

The earlier color gray/red has smallish 5-30 nib with quite thick-walled section to hold it in the larger pen

The later Ebonized Pearl pen has seemingly larger- though still not quite Lifetime oversized- Feathertouch #7 nib, itself an anomaly.

A larger sample would be good. And, this does not prove anything regarding finding a really scarce non-Lifetime Feathertouch #8 nib in the original White Dot OS Pen with off-catalogue cap-band.

regards

David

[Rob Morrison]

I've had a few OS Balances with the Feathertouch 8 nib. Mostly black, mostly in the rare non-white-dot pen. Here's one in gray pearl:

I found it in the wild in Ohio, but Kirchheimer at the 2010 DC gave me some reason why he didn't think it was right. Can't remember what it was. Also at the 2010 DC show, Jon Rosenbaum had a great non-white-dot OS set:

Don't remember if it had the Feathertouch 8 nib, though.

[david i]

I've had a few OS Balances with the Feathertouch 8 nib. Mostly black, mostly in the rare non-white-dot pen. Here's one in gray pearl:

SNIP Pic


I found it in the wild in Ohio, but Kirchheimer at the 2010 DC gave me some reason why he didn't think it was right. Can't remember what it was. Also at the 2010 DC show, Jon Rosenbaum had a great non-white-dot OS set:



Don't remember if it had the Feathertouch 8 nib, though.

Thanks for sharing, Rob.

IF the #8-FT nib did show up in non-WD pens (which might be the general expectation; it is not a Lifetime nib after all), I wonder what determined whether the OS pen would receive #7 vs #8 nib...

regards

david

[Pedro]

So Sheaffer's catalogued OS pens were all Lifetime -white dot
Non-Lifetime -no white dot OS pens do exist.
Nibs found have been 5-30 (smallest), Feathertouch #7 (smaller), 7-30(small) and Feathertouch #8 (same size as Lifetime OS nib)

Why would Sheaffer offer a non-Lifetime OS -their flagship pen?
Did Sheaffer make any pen the customer wanted?
Could these pens be "employee specials"?
If they did, as a special order, why put 3 (or more) different size nibs?
How did they determine what nib gets placed?

I am sure there are more questions than answers.
A Sheaffer pen database among collectors could be quite useful. In the meantime, I truly thank all of you for sharing.

Edited by Pedro, 05 December 2011 - 09:24 PM.

[Greg Minuskin]

Feather Touch #8! Man, I have a lot to learn. Thank you for this post.

Greg Minuskin

[matt]

If you look at the Sheaffer page in the Pen Sac Co catalog - http://pensacs.com/N...s/sheaffer.html - the nib size correlates to the first digit of the "model number" column (and those numbers correlate with the "symbol" column on the plunger rod pages in the "Workbook"). Scroll down about 1/3 of the way to "Sheaffer's Streamlined Design With No Ball on Clip" (which unfortunately mushes Balance, Lifetime Triumph, and post war models into one table) and you can pick out the following:

73 Lifetime Feathertouch, 73T, Sovereign (73W for vac-fil)
74 Lifetime Feathertouch, 74T, Statesman (74W)
8T Lifetime, 8T, Premier (8W)
8 Feathertouch, 82T, Statesman (not in plunger rod list)

non-Lifetime Feathertouch 7's don't seem to be listed. Don't know about the redundant Statesman name, but 82T could be the model/catalog number of the non-WD OS, or at least a place to start looking.

[PatM]

OK, it took a bit but I finally tracked down a couple of OS white dot pens with unusual nibs. The Autograph pen has 14K trim and a 7-30 nib while the PF has an interesting helix transparent barrel with a FeatherTouch #8 nib.

Best,
Pat

[Pedro]

Pat: What are your thoughts on the Autograph with the 7-30 nib?

[PatM]

Pedro -

Interesting question. I've spent some time studying the pen and here are some observations. The pen doesn't seem to be heavily used, although it does have some "chew" marks around the end of the barrel. The 14k band has not been engraved. I doubt we will know if the pen came from Sheaffer with this nib or the nib was inserted at a dealer, but my guess is that the nib is original to the pen. It could be a replacement but I don't think we'll ever really know.

Best,
Pat

[david i]

Pedro -

Interesting question. I've spent some time studying the pen and here are some observations. The pen doesn't seem to be heavily used, although it does have some "chew" marks around the end of the barrel. The 14k band has not been engraved. I doubt we will know if the pen came from Sheaffer with this nib or the nib was inserted at a dealer, but my guess is that the nib is original to the pen. It could be a replacement but I don't think we'll ever really know.

Best,
Pat

Hi Pat,

But at least there is a recognized model that housed the 7-30 nib that could serve as a donor, if a swap was done. This drives home the added oddness of the pen in first post... no donor pen known for the FT#8 nib. Fun puzzle.

regards

david