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Graphic Fountain Pen ?


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#1 June H

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Posted 11 August 2010 - 03:48 AM

This is my newest acquition. It was a pen I had seen for quite some time at an antique store and since I did not know the name I hadn't been interested in it. But as you know when you haven't bought a pen lately you are sometimes a bit weak . The owner had one pen I was interested in so he thought I should buy them all so I did. I made a deal on the three. A sweet pen. The carmel colour is quite light. The nib is a 14 K waranted fine. Writes very nicely. Does anyone know anything about a Graphic made by the Fountain Pen Co. of Canada? Does the screw on ends remind anyone of anothe pen?



[attachment=61:Graphic1.jpg]

#2 david i

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Posted 11 August 2010 - 07:38 AM

This is my newest acquition. It was a pen I had seen for quite some time at an antique store and since I did not know the name I hadn't been interested in it. But as you know when you haven't bought a pen lately you are sometimes a bit weak . The owner had one pen I was interested in so he thought I should buy them all so I did. I made a deal on the three. A sweet pen. The carmel colour is quite light. The nib is a 14 K waranted fine. Writes very nicely. Does anyone know anything about a Graphic made by the Fountain Pen Co. of Canada? Does the screw on ends remind anyone of anothe pen?

[attachment=61:Graphic1.jpg]


Hi June,

It looks very much like (either, sorry my pics are buried) a Gold Bond or maybe Gold Medal (probably Gold Bond) a product of the National Pen Company of Chicago. The ridged ends are telling. Do check imprints. National had quite the range of final labels, and made pens for specific client (eg. branded as DIamond Medal for Sears). I have not hear of this final brand per se, but would bet on National as the source.

regards

David
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#3 djohannsen

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Posted 11 August 2010 - 08:54 AM

This is my newest acquition. It was a pen I had seen for quite some time at an antique store and since I did not know the name I hadn't been interested in it. But as you know when you haven't bought a pen lately you are sometimes a bit weak . The owner had one pen I was interested in so he thought I should buy them all so I did. I made a deal on the three. A sweet pen. The carmel colour is quite light. The nib is a 14 K waranted fine. Writes very nicely. Does anyone know anything about a Graphic made by the Fountain Pen Co. of Canada? Does the screw on ends remind anyone of anothe pen?



[attachment=61:Graphic1.jpg]



I read the barrel imprint as "National Pen Co \\ Canada" (with my interpretation being that "Graphic" likely refers to the model). I have a Century pen in jade that appears (IIRC) to be either very similar or identical (I need to dig it out). This is not surprising as I believe that National owned several pen brands and sold parts to other second and third tier makers (in addition to selling their own branded pens). I usually associate National Pen Co with Chicago, but maybe a production facility in Canada is well known to those who know such things. Or, perhaps, yours is made by a different National Pen Co, entirely (some quick Googling shows it was a very common company name). Anyway, it looks like a nice quality pen (as I mentioned, I willingly paid too much for a very similar looking pen that is imprinted "Century"), and I hope that it brings you much enjoyment.

Dave

#4 david i

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Posted 11 August 2010 - 12:18 PM

I read the barrel imprint as "National Pen Co \\ Canada" (with my interpretation being that "Graphic" likely refers to the model). I have a Century pen in jade that appears (IIRC) to be either very similar or identical (I need to dig it out). This is not surprising as I believe that National owned several pen brands and sold parts to other second and third tier makers (in addition to selling their own branded pens). I usually associate National Pen Co with Chicago, but maybe a production facility in Canada is well known to those who know such things. Or, perhaps, yours is made by a different National Pen Co, entirely (some quick Googling shows it was a very common company name). Anyway, it looks like a nice quality pen (as I mentioned, I willingly paid too much for a very similar looking pen that is imprinted "Century"), and I hope that it brings you much enjoyment.

Dave


Hi Dave


Again, while it appears to be a National, I don't believe that Graphic is the model, not with name on clip in that fashion, any more than Diamond Medal would be a "model" for National. National made brands (call 'em sub-brands perhaps) or badgings or what have you, to sell either themselves (i guess) or for clients. There were models within those brandings (eg. DM Diplomat), but Graphic would seem to be another shell brand. That National might have produced pens in Canada would be a discovery for me too.

regards

David
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#5 djohannsen

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Posted 11 August 2010 - 02:59 PM

Hi Dave


Again, while it appears to be a National, I don't believe that Graphic is the model, not with name on clip in that fashion, any more than Diamond Medal would be a "model" for National. National made brands (call 'em sub-brands perhaps) or badgings or what have you, to sell either themselves (i guess) or for clients. There were models within those brandings (eg. DM Diplomat), but Graphic would seem to be another shell brand. That National might have produced pens in Canada would be a discovery for me too.

regards

David


Still, to me, it's curious to see the barrel so plainly imprinted "National" while the clip bears the "Graphic" name. I don't know that I can recall seeing something like this before (of course, it's obvious that the pen is complete and original - the odds of a cap swap seem astronoically slim). Just something to file away...


Dave

#6 J Appleseed

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Posted 11 August 2010 - 03:47 PM

If I may add a comment about the whole "National Pen Co." I have my doubts about who National was and how much they actually made. This is perhaps a subject that deserves a section of it's own, but let me lay out a couple of thoughts.

1. Documentation about the alleged National Pen Co. or National Pen Products Co. of Chicago seems to be significantly lacking. Most of the speculation that I have seen sources to what I call collector oral history (which I don't discount out of hand - it is often inaccurate and baseless speculation, but also can have roots in the memories of people involved in the original manufacture who have now passed on without a published record of their experiences). Much of it seems to source with Michael Fultz, who well might have had documentation. (and Dave, I know you had some conversations with Fultz about this subject, so maybe you can validate what knowledge he shared).


2. To my knowledge, only a couple of alleged National pens actually have the National name. The Gold Medal (not Gold Bond) can be found to have the inprint "National Pen Products Co." I think I have seen (but do not collect or posess - so take with appropriate salt) some "Lincoln" or "New Lincoln" pens with some sort of "National" imprint. Good Service, Webster, Diamond Medal, Gold Bond, and several of the other pens that are lumped as National brands do not posess any sort of National Imprint.

3. The relationship between National and C.E. Barrett remains very unclear - did National source parts for several brands, or are the similarities of parts due to the C.E. Barrett Co.?

4. I have seen Michael-George (Kraker) Co. pens (Pencraft, mainly) that were dead ringers for "National" pens. We know that M-G had an assembly plant and pushed a lot of pens over the years. It is conceivable that some of the brands we assume to be National were actually M-G Co. It is also possible that M-G sourced some parts or pens from C.E. Barrett, or even from National.

In short, there are a lot of unknowns, which is why I often preface such comments as "presumptive National Pen Products Co." brand or some such.

Of course, this one seems to be some sort of Canadian version of National. While National Pen is not an uncommon name, the similarity in design leads one to think this is the same company - perhaps a Canadian subsidiary to get around Tariff laws.

John

#7 david i

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Posted 11 August 2010 - 04:35 PM

Still, to me, it's curious to see the barrel so plainly imprinted "National" while the clip bears the "Graphic" name. I don't know that I can recall seeing something like this before (of course, it's obvious that the pen is complete and original - the odds of a cap swap seem astronoically slim). Just something to file away...

Dave



The imprint on the clip to me argues agains simple model name. Indeed, I have no ready recollection of any pen's model name (vs its brand name) appearing on a clip. I'm not sure regarding whether any National (or is that now... presumed National) pen had the National name also on the barrel, though the Canadian source for this pen opens yet another can o' worms.

regards

David



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#8 david i

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Posted 11 August 2010 - 04:38 PM

If I may add a comment about the whole "National Pen Co." I have my doubts about who National was and how much they actually made. This is perhaps a subject that deserves a section of it's own, but let me lay out a couple of thoughts.

1. Documentation about the alleged National Pen Co. or National Pen Products Co. of Chicago seems to be significantly lacking. Most of the speculation that I have seen sources to what I call collector oral history SNIP

In short, there are a lot of unknowns, which is why I often preface such comments as "presumptive National Pen Products Co." brand or some such.

SNIP

John


And thus a simple posting of a pen find takes a radical turn into... the Twilight Zone ;)

Very interesting take per Johnny A.

Verily all that I "know" about National (and the linked brands cited and perhaps others) is from hearsay within the hobby. I've never seen any literature from the company.

If our assumptions are wrong...

-david






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#9 djohannsen

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Posted 11 August 2010 - 04:43 PM

3. The relationship between National and C.E. Barrett remains very unclear - did National source parts for several brands, or are the similarities of parts due to the C.E. Barrett Co.?


Though Fultz was always quite cagy with his answers, I recall him once asserting that National and Barrett were distinct companies, but that National procured parts from Barrett. When I pressed him for some evidence, he declined to provide any (my recollection is that he said he was working on an article). Anyway, this has always struck me as plausible, but I have nothing to add beyond this. That I have a Century pen with the same cap and barrel ends as the one pictured here is another sliver of evidence for Fultz' assertion (since Barrett was the main supplier to Century, as evidenced by Barrett being the principal creditor to Century when the company went belly up). Also, that Lakeside sold a thumb filler based on Mooney's patent (the same design as Century thumb filling pens) is another nugget of support for Fultz' assertion. But, both of these facts are simply annecdote.
[Edit: I should probably also state for the record my recollection that simple Googling turns up distinct Chicago street addresses in Chicago directories for National and Barrett.]

Barrett remains incredibly ellusive. I have not been able to turn up anything at all... I know of four patents assigned to Barrett, and these display an interesting variety of corporate names... One is assigned simply to "Clarence E Barrett of Chicago, Illinois" (1919). One is assigned to "Clarence E Barrett, doing business as C.E. Barrett & Co., of Chicago, Illinois" (1926). One is assigned to "C.E. Barrett & Co., of Chicago, Illinois, a copartnership consisting of Clarence A. Barrett and Leonard A. Barrett, trustee" (1928). (Can we assume that the middle initial in the preceding is a typo?) One is assigned to ""C.E. Barrett & Company, Chicago, Ill., a partnership composed of C. E. Barrett, Miriam M. Barrett, Grace Mae Barrett, and Jane Elizabeth Barrett" (1942). We also know that he had some dealings with Frank Mooney (since he came to be in possession of Mooney's thumb filling patent). We know that Barrett was a supplier to Sheaffer (named as a defendant in the Sheaffer-Kraker lawsuit), so presumably was a fairly big entity in the pen world? The point is that I have been frustrated every time that I've tried to learn anything of Barrett. (Roger, do you know anything from the Sheaffer perspective? How is Barrett named in the lawsuit?)

I don't know anything at all of National. I've only heard it asserted that Lakeside is a National brand (whatever this means). I know from examination that the Lakeside thumb fillers are precisely the same fillers found on Century pens (a presumptive Barrett sourced part), and is unmistakably Mooney's patent.

Anyway, the bottom line is that I don't have anything substantive to add. Barrett has been a source of much interest to me (surprisingly little seems to be known about either Barrett or Julius Schnell), but I've drawn a blank every time that I've looked for information.


Dave

#10 david i

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Posted 11 August 2010 - 04:58 PM

Though Fultz was always quite cagy with his answers, I recall him once asserting that National and Barrett were distinct companies, but that National procured parts from Barrett. When I pressed him for some evidence, he declined to provide any (my recollection is that he said he was working on an article).

Dave


There is tragedy in being cagy (vs acting in cagy fashion when lacking actual info) and taking valuable info to the grave Posted Image


-d





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#11 david i

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Posted 11 August 2010 - 10:10 PM

Still, to me, it's curious to see the barrel so plainly imprinted "National" while the clip bears the "Graphic" name. I don't know that I can recall seeing something like this before (of course, it's obvious that the pen is complete and original - the odds of a cap swap seem astronoically slim). Just something to file away...


Dave


Hi again,

Of note, as I am today doing a first home sort through some 900 old pens just found (busy day yesterday. Yes, I concede I'm a happy David), I found an OS "The Lincoln Pen", an obvious (I hope) example by National. In addition to the major "Lincoln" imprint, it does have a "National Pen Company" imprint of some sort in small letters.

regards

Daivd




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#12 J Appleseed

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Posted 11 August 2010 - 10:58 PM

Dave J.

Thanks for the long summary of what you know on the subject, which I think fits with my recollection of what you have said elsewhere. As David mentions, it is unfortunate when someone holds information tightly and then takes it to the grave. One hopes anything solid will turn up in his papers, and that it will eventually come to light. But Fultz was also the foremost expert on Chicago area pen companies and I am inclined to give that some credance, in the absence other evidence.

I am ready to believe that National existed and sourced parts from Barrett. As I mention, some of the Gold Medal pens do bear the National Pen Products Co. imprint, and I think I have also seen one of the Lincoln pens with that name. There are also some pens with a Barrett or C.E. Barrett Co. imprint. All have that relatively classic design that we have come to call "National" - lever fillers, flat-top or stepped ends, and a distinctive lever.

The Pencraft that I picked up (now in Dennis Bowden's collection) which is also identical to the "National" pens is the one that really made me wonder. I have also seen some Belmont pens, which was an M-G brand, listed as "National". It made me realy wonder how many of the "National" pens could really be linked to National by solid evidence. I suspect George K. is right that C.E. Barrett co is the maker of parts for all of these pens (which he claimed in a post at Lion and Pen which we hope will some day return), but I am not sure that we can link the assembly to National in all but a few cases.

A few other points of interest. The 1937 Index of Trademarks lists a "Fred J. Williams, Doing Business as National Pen Co, St. Louis. MO".

Also there is another "National Pen and Pencil Co." of Shelbyville TN, which is still alive today under the National Pen Co. name as a dealer in promotional items, and historically as the manufacturer of the Tuckersharpe pens (or at least owner of the trademark). They are, to the best of my knowledge, completely unrelated.

John



#13 June H

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Posted 13 August 2010 - 03:34 AM

y other

Hi June,

It looks very much like (either, sorry my pics are buried) a Gold Bond or maybe Gold Medal (probably Gold Bond) a product of the National Pen Company of Chicago. The ridged ends are telling. Do check imprints. National had quite the range of final labels, and made pens for specific client (eg. branded as DIamond Medal for Sears). I have not hear of this final brand per se, but would bet on National as the source.

regards

David


Hello All:
I have been checking this pen minutely and there are no other imprints of any kind. Just
Graphic
National Pen Co.
of Canada.
That's all.
June




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