31 replies to this topic

[david i]

Just a bit of Wahl-Eversharp eye candy. Skyline complete color set in the Modern Stripe pattern.


These are found with three trim configurations. The bandless plastic-derbied versions shown were least expensive at time of issue (noting I am fond of the bandless look). Step up gave a thin gold-filled cap-band. Most expensive form had wider gold-filled cap-band and gold-filled derby.

The overwhelming majority feature "Eversharp" marked clips

regards

David

[matt]

Any rhyme or reason why some have double check mark clip and some don't?

[david i]

Any rhyme or reason why some have double check mark clip and some don't?

Probably... not that I happen to know what it is.

One can argue the double check is a late form of the Gold Seal (which did harbor a double check... or are both really a stylized "W"???). Was the mark dropped because of a warranty change? I don't know. In fact I had not noticed the two clip styles when I shot the picture. Always more to consider...

-d

[PatM]

David, great shot of the Modern Skylines. I have always thought them to be very attractive pens.

These Modern/moire Skylines can also be found in a configuration with a "WAHL" marked clip and nib as shown in the photo. In addition to the Modern stripe, I have seen the "WAHL" Skylines in solid black, brown, burgundy and blue. The solid versions I have seen also have a "W" at the top of the WAHL clip, while all the modern striped pens I have seen do not and simply have "WAHL" marked on the clip. Also, again based on only what I have seen, the solid colored WAHL skylines all have had a single thin band on the caps.

Best,
Pat

[david i]

David, great shot of the Modern Skylines. I have always thought them to be very attractive pens.

These Modern/moire Skylines can also be found in a configuration with a "WAHL" marked clip and nib as shown in the photo. In addition to the Modern stripe, I have seen the "WAHL" Skylines in solid black, brown, burgundy and blue. The solid versions I have seen also have a "W" at the top of the WAHL clip, while all the modern striped pens I have seen do not and simply have "WAHL" marked on the clip. Also, again based on only what I have seen, the solid colored WAHL skylines all have had a single thin band on the caps.

Best,
Pat

Kudos to Pat for picking up on my rather obscure hint that not all Wahl-Everhsharp Skyline pens in Modern Stripe plastic were created equal.

Per David: The overwhelming majority feature "Eversharp" marked clips

I had not written "all clips are marked 'Eversharp'" and I had not ignored clips altogether (not to say every comment has to cover every feature of a pen)... for a reason

Pat responded showing a most impressive array of quite uncommon "Wahl" marked clips on Modern Stripe pens. Look again at his photo and look at the original photo in the first thread. I have not pursued Skylines to point of aggressively hunting adverts and such, but general hearsay in Wahldom is that "Eversharp" clips are what are expected on Skylines. Why an overwhelming minority turn up with "Wahl" clip (and nib)???

Dunno.

Here is shot of my only "Wahl" (vs "Eversharp") marked Skyline.

Unfamiliar readers should note that Skyline appeared around 1941. Earlier pens tend to have both "Wahl and "Eversharp" marked (I really must check some of the later Dorics to see if that remained so in late 1930's)

Here's an image from an ebay auction (I did not buy the pen) showing a Wahl Eversharp Skyline in Modern Stripe plastic with what might seem to be the expected "Eversharp" clip, except that this clip starts with the washer ring and does not extend completely over the derby as do the overwhelming majority of Skyline clips. There is a sub-Skyline model by Wahl-Eversharp called the Streamliner, and I'd thought this pen might be a Streamliner done in Skyline's Modern Stripe plastic, the only one I'd seen. The pen remains the only Modern Stripe WE pen I've seen with this sort of clip though as subsequent image posted by Richard (from a prior thread) will suggest, whatever this pen is and for whatever reason it has a variant clip, it might not be a Streamliner model

Rare Skyline (or something) with truncated clip (no portion running around derby top)

Again, I've seen paper (though not of late) citing a non-over-the-top clip found on a low-line Wahl Streamliner pen that looks largely like Skyline. I'd thought the pen just above might be that model, though the first I'd seen in this plastic. However, Richard suggested yet a third clip arrangement for Streamliner,

Per RIchard: Umm, I'm certainly willing to be proven wrong, but I've been under the impression that this pen

is a Streamliner. I believe it was Syd who so identified it for me, but again I could be misremembering my source. So, umm, got some primary source for "your" Streamliner?

regards

David

[matt]

To follow up on my earlier question, neither of these pens has a double check mark clip, but both pencils do. Skyline pen clips are fairly easy to change, after you swear at your first one. But in order to switch a pencil clip, you not only have to start with the correct color sleeve, you have to figure out how it's cemented in the barrel. http://www.vintagepe...ibs_parts.shtml


And after a quick perusal of Jonathan's pencil museum, it appears that all Skyline pencils have the double check mark clips. As do all (shorter clip) Streamliner pencils.... I recall reading somewhere, in the distant past, that the modern stripe, made in old fashioned celluloid, were not guarenteed like the newer injection molded Skylines.

Now, how about a WAHL clip on a Skyline pencil??

Edited by matt, 30 December 2011 - 03:30 PM.

[Jim B]

I have found other Skylines with "streamliner" derby/clips which seemed to me to be a later mismatch or perhaps repair. The streamliner derby/clips will retro-fit a wide variety of skyline caps.

I recall actually seeing one on a metal skyline cap once, a configuration I very much doubt left the factory that way, but then again who knows?

[david i]

I have found other Skylines with "streamliner" derby/clips which seemed to me to be a later mismatch or perhaps repair. The streamliner derby/clips will retro-fit a wide variety of skyline caps.

I recall actually seeing one on a metal skyline cap once, a configuration I very much doubt left the factory that way, but then again who knows?

Hi JIm,

I don't know. Haven't researched and suspect research will be tricky.

Ignoring imprint ("wahl" "eversharp", checkmarks...), we have at least three clip shapes shown above. Richard has claimed a simple truncated (no derby wrap) clip does not make a Streamliner. He... might... be right. He shows an intermediate clip that does extend a bit above the washer.

WhaddooEYEknow?

Has anyone published anything on which years the Modern Stripe variants were made? Do we know what the truncated clip even signifies if Richard is right that the Streamliner clip is intermediate in style?

I'm happy to find nice specimens of Skyline. I have fewer than ten in my collection, but find good ones for the website. But, I am not up on the anomalies, and I'm not sure anyone has done a detailed review of them.

Field worthy of research, but probably won't be by me.

regards

david

[matt]

David, great shot of the Modern Skylines. I have always thought them to be very attractive pens.

These Modern/moire Skylines can also be found in a configuration with a "WAHL" marked clip and nib as shown in the photo. In addition to the Modern stripe, I have seen the "WAHL" Skylines in solid black, brown, burgundy and blue. The solid versions I have seen also have a "W" at the top of the WAHL clip, while all the modern striped pens I have seen do not and simply have "WAHL" marked on the clip. Also, again based on only what I have seen, the solid colored WAHL skylines all have had a single thin band on the caps.

Best,
Pat

Is the trim ring between the cap and the derby on your WAHLs imprinted with anything similar to the typical "Eversharp Skyline"?

Edited by Admin, 29 December 2011 - 11:10 PM.

[PatM]

Pen World Volume 4, No. 2, p. 11, had a neat schematic which I keep handy that described most of the varieties of Skylines along with the production timeline for them. The Skylines with the short clips, i.e., didn't go over the top of the derby, were called "Thrifts". The short clip models with the plain caps were produced (or at least introduced) in 1941/1942 and the Thrifts with the ribbed caps in 1945.

David, the Modern stripe pen with the short clip is the only one I've seen in Modern. There are lots of short clips around and I wonder if the Modern with the short clip was actually a production pen. There are so many Skyline variations, and so many parts around, that it would be easy to put together a new variant. Then again, I've seen lots of variations not covered by the Pen World schematic in enough numbers to know that they were real and that you can go nuts trying to figure out all the configurations. When some of my "friends" decided that I should collect Skylines, they said that someone crazy enough to collect Sheaffers with all the variations deserved to collect Skylines as well.

Best,
Pat

[PatM]

Matt asked "Is the trim ring between the cap and the derby on your WAHLs imprinted with anything similar to the typical "Eversharp Skyline"?"


Matt, it took a glass to see it. They all are imprinted "WAHL PAT. MADE IN U.S.A.".


Also, I have never seen a WAHL pencil. And, I like your shot of the green Modern stripe pens and pencils. According to the Pen World schematic, that color is "Emerald Pearl".


Best,
Pat

[david i]

Pen World Volume 4, No. 2, p. 11, had a neat schematic which I keep handy that described most of the varieties of Skylines along with the production timeline for them. The Skylines with the short clips, i.e., didn't go over the top of the derby, were called "Thrifts". The short clip models with the plain caps were produced (or at least introduced) in 1941/1942 and the Thrifts with the ribbed caps in 1945.

David, the Modern stripe pen with the short clip is the only one I've seen in Modern. There are lots of short clips around and I wonder if the Modern with the short clip was actually a production pen. There are so many Skyline variations, and so many parts around, that it would be easy to put together a new variant. Then again, I've seen lots of variations not covered by the Pen World schematic in enough numbers to know that they were real and that you can go nuts trying to figure out all the configurations. When some of my "friends" decided that I should collect Skylines, they said that someone crazy enough to collect Sheaffers with all the variations deserved to collect Skylines as well.

Best,
Pat

Hi Pat,

First: Yes, frankenpens --- in cases in which swaps physically fit-- always are a concern when pens turn up that are odd for their trim findings. I'm already thinking back to that Sheaffer pencil thread you gave us...

Someone really needs to write a PENnant article on frankenpens...

Second: Perhaps then the fully truncated clip (no derby wrap) represent low-line Skylines while that intermediate clip in Richard's quote (the clip pokes a bit higher than the washer, but does not wrap over top) is the true Streamliner clip

Third: I do wish sources were provided in articles, though I reocgnize that article authors had fewer resources with which to play back in the day. Did the PWI article cite "Thrifts" (not to be confused with the abuse of that word in Parker collecting) because paper was available so labeling those pens, or instead simply because prices found on such pens indeed were cheaper than Skylines with wrap-over clips? I don't know.

regards

David

[PatM]

David -

Seems like I recall some kind of article recently about Frankenpens, but then again my memory isn't what it used to be.

The PW piece labels the plain cap version "Thrift" and the later ribbed version "Ribbed-Cap Thrift", without any indication of price. As long as I've been collecting Skylines, I've heard them referred to that way.

Based on what I've heard over the years, I would agree with Richard's nomenclature that the pen you have shown with the different clip is not a Skyline but rather a Streamliner, but I don't know squat about Streamliners.

Best,
Pat

[matt]

Took some searching, but I re-found Richard Moller's Skyline pages, where years ago I saw my first picture of one of the holy grail Skylines, the stainless cap.

http://www.moller.ca...lines/Index.htm

I think there is some correlation to the double check mark guarantee clip and the trim level on the modern stripe. None of Richard's modern stripes have that clip except his pen with the gold derby and I'm not sure the gold derby belongs on a narrow band cap...

He has a WAHL clip on a GF-cap which has a round double check symbol, much like the old gold seal, so there are two different WAHL clips, and this correlates to the plain clips on the bandless WAHL modern stripes above.

Also, on Richard's "solid colours" page, note the first two pens. The first is a possible? prototype with a short clip and a plastic ridge over the derby -- is the blunt-pointed barrel the difference between the Streamliner and the Thrift? The second pen has an extra band near the clip ring. I wonder where this pen fits in the overall Skyline scheme...because I just sold a nearly matching pencil - it has the extra band, but a plastic "derby" - to Jonathan Veley!

Edited by matt, 30 December 2011 - 03:50 PM.

[PatM]

Matt -

There are two different WAHL clips. I took a look at Richard Moller's site and I think that the symbol on the WAHL clip on the GF cap is actually a W as I described in one of my posts above. I haven't posted any photos of those clips, all of which in my collection are on solid color pens, but will try to get a couple of shots. On close inspection the W is clearly different from the double check symbol, but often close inspection is required to distinguish them.

Among the tougher Skylines to find are those with extra bands. I'll also take some shots of those and post them, but I don't have many. The Pen World schematic shows both 3 and 4 band models produced in 1945 and describes them as "rare", just as they do with the stainless cap model also produced in 1945.

Best,
Pat

[PatM]

Matt -

The attached is my attempt to show the W in a circle symbol at the top of a WAHL clip on the solid color WAHL Skylines. There is a clear difference between this W symbol and the double check symbol on some of the Eversharp clips, but they are tough for me to differentiate without the help of a loupe.

Hope this helps.

Best,
Pat

[Jon Veley]

Couple points:

1. Skyline derbies, complete with clip assemblies, are easily unscrewed from one pen and into another. No Skyline pen is rare solely because a clip is different, because someone could just as easily swapped it from one pen to another. Pencils, not so much.

2. The "truncated" clip without the over-the-top treatment is a Streamliner clip. It was Eversharp's lower tier Skyline. I do not believe a Streamliner clip is correct on a Moire (what is called here "modern stripe").

3. Streamliner clips are just like regular clips, in that there is a separate derby assembly with the clip sandwiched between derby and barrel. The derby on a streamliner lacks the indentation found on regular derbies. Pens like the one pictured which have a one piece barrel with a clip stapled into the barrel are "press clip" skylines and are usually found in pencil form.

There were a couple nice threads about this on FPN a bit ago that explain all this.

Also, while pens are easy to mix and match from spare parts, pencils are very difficult to do so. A relatively complete listing of the known variations of Skyline pencils, including a system for identifying the different varieties, is covered on pages 72 through 76 of The Catalogue of American Mechanical Pencils.

[david i]

Couple points:

1. Skyline derbies, complete with clip assemblies, are easily unscrewed from one pen and into another. No Skyline pen is rare solely because a clip is different, because someone could just as easily swapped it from one pen to another.

I would disagree with this statement, noting the caveat that a hard definition for "rare" does not exist and has not been suggested in this thread.

Any Skyline clip marked "Wahl" not "Eversharp" is uncommon. Thus, while clips might be interchanged, the pen from which the "Wahl" clip was donated essentially is as rare as the rare pen resulting from acquisition of the Wahl clip. Too, there are enough-- albeit still scarce-- "Wahl" Skyline clips found on Modern Stripe pens with no claim as to any other color series as an imagined/expected "usual" bearer of a "Wahl" clip, that the Modern Stripe "Wahl" Skylines are as likely to be original as any other pattern "Wahl" Skyline.

If anyone has actual company information or serious observation to refute that assertion, I welcome it.

regards

David

[david i]

Couple points:


2. The "truncated" clip without the over-the-top treatment is a Streamliner clip. It was Eversharp's lower tier Skyline. I do not believe a Streamliner clip is correct on a Moire (what is called here "modern stripe").

The pens called "Modern Stripe"... here... are so labelled as that is the belief of the writers regarding... Wahl's... name for that pattern. If anyone has information that Wahl ever called the cluster by the name, "Moire", I invite presentation of information. Barring overriding confounding factors (rare, but happen), it is good to use original company names for colors/series.

Too, note that in the thread above, three shapes of clip are shown, not two. There are two different styles of non over-the-top clip shown, and the truncated clip seen on the anomalous Modern Stripe pen is not the same clip attributed by one writer to the Streamliner series, rather-- perhaps-- to a lower-line "Thrift" Skylilne.

Regards

David

[david i]

Pen World Volume 4, No. 2, p. 11, had a neat schematic which I keep handy that described most of the varieties of Skylines along with the production timeline for them. The Skylines with the short clips, i.e., didn't go over the top of the derby, were called "Thrifts". The short clip models with the plain caps were produced (or at least introduced) in 1941/1942 and the Thrifts with the ribbed caps in 1945.


SNIP

Best,
Pat

Hi again Pat,

My concern with presentations such as the PWI-- and I leave others open to concern about my work in similar setting, no worries-- is that lacking cited sources (even if the source is "hey, this is my best guess"), we often are reading an author's interpretation rather than about manufacturer's original intent. Find some non over-the-top clips on low-ilne seeming models, maybe one with a price sticker indicating cheaper price than other Skylines known to the author, and-- voila-- we have "Skyline Thrifts", perhaps even lifting a bit the also inexact nomenclature from Parker's "Thrift" pens. Or... maybe not. I have not seen the article and have not checked thus to see if it is sourced, but this is a chronic concern.

Indeed, in the posts above, I had shown a Modern Stripe "Skyline" that I thought had a low-line Streamliner (non Skyline) clip. In an earlier thread (and reproduced above) Richard opined that the clip on the Modern STripe pen was not from Streamliner, and he offered that third clip that extends above the washer ring, but which does not cover the entire derby... the first of that clip I've seen.

So... I did a bit of research and came up with some information from the 1947 Wahl repair manual. I offer caveat that after-the-fact repair manuals by the big pen makers are notorious for mangling original terms for pens, so it is possible this 1947 Info does not reflect original nomenclature, but, iirc, Wahl still was wrapping up Skyline around 1947, so this paper at least is not ten years after the fact or some such, as are 1948 Parker manuals, which often misdescribe 1930's Vacumatic models.

Per this paper, Richard is in error claiming the short-clip Modern Stripe Skyline I showed does not have a Streamliner clip, and your Thrifts appear to be Streamliners. What the significance is of RIchard's intermediate clip... I do not know. And, of course, this 1947 paper does not preclude some of the pens the PWI article calls "Skyline Thrifts" having been so labelled earlier in the 1940's.

Note, too, the pens with ribbed caps.

And, from above, that Modern Stripe pen with an ebay screen grab showing apparently the Streamliner clip

Per RIchard: Umm, I'm certainly willing to be proven wrong, but I've been under the impression that this pen

is a Streamliner. I believe it was Syd who so identified it for me, but again I could be misremembering my source. So, umm, got some primary source for "your" Streamliner?

regards

David