18 replies to this topic

[marcshiman]

Who could possible want such an ugly, faded, BCHR pen with a wrong nib etc etc?

Well, besides me, of course

I was hoping to sneak it through as its early in the morning on a Sunday. Sorta like hoping to sneak a lambchop past a wolf.

Whoever got it stole it I think.

Marc

Advert Text and Screen Grab Added by Ye Olde Admin

VINTAGE FOUNTAIN OVERSIZE WAHL PEN FROM 1929 -1932 , HAS ROLLER BALL CLIP AND MARKED WAHL PEN , HE NIB IS MARKED WAHL 6 14 K , NEED A NEW RUBBERBAG .NO CRACK. LENGTH 13,7 CM

[david i]

Hi Marc,

A most interesting Wahl. We can play a bit as to value, but the feature set is what appeals to me.

Some context for readers less familiar...

The model often is referred to by collectors as the Deco Band; it was Wahl's oversized high line model in the Personal Point series, with no original model name, catalogued and generally found with the Gold Seal. This late 1920's series gave way in 1930 (at least in ads) to the OS Equi-Poised and eventually to oversized Doric, for size king of the high line at Wahl.

Pens are known or catalogued in smooth black plastic, black/pearl, Jade, Lapis, green/bronze and Rosewood. More scarce black chased and red chased hard rubber pens are known, but I'd have to double check my catalogues to see if they are catalogued. Perhaps the most rare, rather mythic color is Flamingo, uncatalogued in flat-top pens (though well documented for economy line Equi-Poised), with perhaps 4-5 known to the hobby currently. Although, come to think of it, more mythic and certainly more scarce would be the Coral (red-and-orange) Deco Band. I've never seen one. There are rumors of one pen or one pen cap, and I believe one of the Wahl period adverts shows image of it.

While chased black Deco Band is a neat pen, at first glance one might ask what is the big deal on this one. While it appears not to suffer fatal flaws (cracks), it is very rough in terms of conventional wear. Chasing is about gone, showing more color difference than texture where it had been present. The #6 nib (instead of Gold Seal) I've seen enough to suspect is a finding for an early Deco Band, rather than a replacement. Others who play more with Wahl perhaps can comment on that. Would not surprise me if chased pens in any case represented early product in the Deco Band line.

Why would anyone-- never mind an expert Wahlster-- pay $500+ for a worn out black chased Deco Band? Yeah, Deco Bands in catalogued colors in great shape can top $1000. Certainly a crisp red chased pen should blow out that number, and the uncatalogued Flamingo should go far far higher in price, but discolored Jade can go for couple hundred, and this is a just worn out black pen.

Hmmm....

What catches my eye is that the chasing pattern appears not to be the typical Grecian Border pattern found on chased rubber pens.

This pen is rough, but it is an anomaly and likely is very rare. I've never seen this pattern on a Deco Band.

This brings us to value. The pen is rough, and there are limited people who care about anomalies. But, to a serious collector of a pen series, the chance to score a unique-- or at least very rare-- off-catalogue variant is something for which he lives. I've bought my fair share of exotica-- not always in gem grade-- because I cherished the feature set found. My PENnant and FPB profiles cite my interest in exotica, anomalous and off-catalogue material, more that in the usual "glitz and value" stuff.

Very cool pen.

Thoughts?

regards

David


r

[marcshiman]

Although, come to think of it, more mythic and certainly more scarce would be the Coral (red-and-orange) Deco Band. I've never seen one. There are rumors of one pen or one pen cap, and I believe one of the Wahl period adverts shows image of it.

Although not addressing your central point, there are two different "Coral" Deco Bands that I've seen discussed. You have the Coral (red-and-orange) that makes for an amazing Personal Point Wahl, and then there have been sightings of a Danish Coral (straight-up orange - like a Penol).

I've seen snippets of discussion regarding the relationship between the Wahl and a Danish distributor, although I don't remember where. There have been several variations of Wahls that come out of there around this era. It should be noted that this pen was being shipped from Denmark as well.

Marc

[david i]

Although, come to think of it, more mythic and certainly more scarce would be the Coral (red-and-orange) Deco Band. I've never seen one. There are rumors of one pen or one pen cap, and I believe one of the Wahl period adverts shows image of it.

Although not addressing your central point, there are two different "Coral" Deco Bands that I've seen discussed. You have the Coral (red-and-orange) that makes for an amazing Personal Point Wahl, and then there have been sightings of a Danish Coral (straight-up orange - like a Penol).

I've seen snippets of discussion regarding the relationship between the Wahl and a Danish distributor, although I don't remember where. There have been several variations of Wahls that come out of there around this era. It should be noted that this pen was being shipped from Denmark as well.

Marc

Hi Marc,

DIscussion of the undocumented always raises risk for semantic debate, but I would not consider the Wahl orange pen made for export to Denmark (or so we believe) to be "Coral", though I'm amenable to counterpoints.

Wahl's Coral (Red with orange flecks) is a documented color for Wahl. That it might exist in Deco Band model certainly is a question.

But, the pure orange (might even call it "Duofold Orange" for fun) has never been shown to be called Coral by Wahl, though Sheaffer used that term for that color, and- iirc- some European pens did so as well.

I've handled (but not owned) two of the Orange Wahl Deco Band pens and in fact own a lovely presumably made-for-export-to-Denmakr orange Equi-Poised. Unfortunately, three such pens died in a fire.

I'd use Coral for Wahl's... Coral... and Orange (perhaps with some other provocative modifier) for the orange export pens.

regards

david

[Wahlnut]

Hear ye! Hear Ye! The court will come to order...

"Mr. Wahlnut, How do you plead in the matter of paying an insane sum for a pen?," the judge asked. "Guilty, your honor," the Wahlnut replied. The judge then addressed the assembled parties: "The sanity hearing for Mr. Wahlnut is now in session."

This was a strange proceeding in that the plaintiff and the respondent attorney were one and the same.

Counsel for the State of Normalcy opened with "Why would anyone-- never mind an expert Wahlster-- pay $500+ for a worn out black chased Deco Band? Yeah, Deco Bands in catalogued colors in great shape can top $1000? Certainly a crisp red chased pen should blow out that number, and the uncatalogued Flamingo should go far far higher in price, but discolored Jade can go for couple hundred, and this is a just worn out black pen."

But before the respondent could answer, his counsel speaking from the other of the 2 heads on his shoulders interjected with "What catches my eye is that the chasing pattern appears not to be the typical Grecian Border pattern found on chased rubber pens."

"Yes!" shouted the respondent. In my eyes the item in question is not just a pen, it is not simply a BCHR # 86 series personal point pen. It is not just an old worn writing instrument. It is an artifact. Who can put a price on that? A torn out section of a native american hand woven basket of a particularly rare design, or a broken pot shard with incising or decoration not seen before or since unearthed in an archaeological expedition rises to artifact level...So in my eyes does this pen. The defendant continued as if arguing to justify his whole philosophy and with it his very credibility was on the line. he thought he had made his case when

Someone from the gallery shouted: "Hey Wahlnut, are you gonna RE-BLACKEN it?" Ordinarily the Wahlnut would ignore such a snipe from a heckler, but the stakes were too high. "No" retorted the Wahlnut. "An item such as this is no user grade, 'gee lets see how it writes and looks in my pocket; item. It deserves to be left as found."

Shouts of Hurrah! Hurrah! spontaneously poured from the pro and anti blackening elements in the gallery alike. The judge moved for a summary judgement declaring the sanity of the respondent intact.

After the bustle of the courtroom had long died down and the press was interviewing the 2 headed counsel about his 2 heads (for what would be more newsworthy than a 2 headed lawyer?!), the defendant walked slowly but happily toward home where some day soon the item that caused such a stir would surely arrive (if only the postal gods were good) and to prepare his sealed glass inert gas pen repository for the Wahl Eversharp #860? BCHR Grecian Border Oversized pen.

It was a good day after all.

All of the characters except the Wahlnut are fictional. Any resemblance between them and any person living or dead are purely coincidental


Syd

Edited by Wahlnut, 15 January 2012 - 08:41 PM.

[david i]

Hear ye! Hear Ye! The court will come to order...

"Mr. Wahlnut, How do you plead in the matter of paying an insane sum for a pen?," the judge asked. "Guilty, your honor," the Wahlnut replied. The judge then addressed the assembled parties: "The sanity hearing for Mr. Wahlnut is now in session."

SNIP

Syd

Excellent.

So, have you ever seen that pattern on any other Wahl? Documented for any model? Or is this an anomaly both for finding the pattern on a Deco Band and for finding the pattern... ever?

Of note, event hough this pen was a bit of a sleeper, what with the weak presentation at ebay, clearly more than one Wahlster spotted it and made play, or it would have been a $20 find. Clearly, serious players still peruse ebay.

-d

[Wahlnut]

Hear ye! Hear Ye! The court will come to order...

"Mr. Wahlnut, How do you plead in the matter of paying an insane sum for a pen?," the judge asked. "Guilty, your honor," the Wahlnut replied. The judge then addressed the assembled parties: "The sanity hearing for Mr. Wahlnut is now in session."

SNIP

Syd

Excellent.

So, have you ever seen that pattern on any other Wahl? Documented for any model? Or is this an anomaly both for finding the pattern on a Deco Band and for finding the pattern... ever?



Of note, event hough this pen was a bit of a sleeper, what with the weak presentation at ebay, clearly more than one Wahlster spotted it and made play, or it would have been a $20 find. Clearly, serious players still peruse ebay.

-d

In real life I don't think so. In print, yes - on the cover and on page 6 of Wahl-Eversharp's "EVERSALES" dealer newsletter magazine. The issue was the "Gold Seal Special 1928" edition and probably came out in August 1928 - since in an article therein it refers to a sales meeting on July 27 and 28 in the past tense.) That is the first issue of "EVERSALES" to announce to Wahl-Eversharp dealers the coming of the Gold Seals and The "Deco Bands". The pen is question was identified therein as simply #86 The images are not photos. They are artists renderings like the images in the earlier catalogs.

Edited by Wahlnut, 15 January 2012 - 09:58 PM.

[david i]

For those who would like to see some nice Decoband pens...

Decoband Link http://fountainpenbo...-4-big-honkers/




regards

David

[marcshiman]

After this discussion, I'm glad that Syd won for several reasons - none the least of which I have $550 in cash that could have gone towards this pen otherwise. (I came in 2nd - nobody remembers who came in 2nd)

But the main thing is that I don't collect for the importance, the history, or any of the other things that drives people like Syd to have marvelous collections. I like the beauty of a pen, the utility of it. This pen's significance would have been lost on me.

Congratulations, Syd. One of the pens considered "lost" (or maybe considered never to have actually existed) is now in proper custodianship.

Marc

[ihimlen]

I have only seen very few of these black chased Deco Bands and one, incidentally, appears in the image library on Syd's website While I'm not sure if these chased pens were catalogued (I have yet to check that) they appeared in the 1928 ad so they must be an early model. These seem to be pretty tough to find in any condition so the final price is not very surprising really given that apart from some wear there is no obvious damage.

[Procyon]

I have a Black Deco Band pen and pencil in this same pattern. Interesting that it also has the Wahl 6 nib - exactly like the one on eBay. Mine is in considerably better condition. I will try to take a picture of it later and post it here.

[david i]

I have a Black Deco Band pen and pencil in this same pattern. Interesting that it also has the Wahl 6 nib - exactly like the one on eBay. Mine is in considerably better condition. I will try to take a picture of it later and post it here.

Hi Procyon,

I-- and i suspect many of us- would be most interested to see the pen.

regards

David

[Procyon]

Here are some pictures of my Wahl Deco Band Black Chased HR pen and pencil. I am not real happy with the pictures, but maybe you can get a good idea of the chasing. The cap of the pen is more worn than I remembered, but the barrel is quite nice.











You can see the chasing a little better in this shot:






And maybe even better here:





Here is the nib. Like David said, I tend to believe it is original.

[Teej47]

Oh my goodness...

Tim

[Wahlnut]

Yahoo! That set is a peach.

I wonder if you could supply a little provenance on your set to help with the history a lesson if possible. How long have you had it? Do you remember where you found it? Can you trace it back any farther than when you acquired it? It seems the cap pattern is very much less distinct than the barrel...is that so in real life? The browned set in question here shows the same but more progressed variation, so it is interesting that the caps are worn more than the barrel. The surface appears to have a little "grain" as is usually caused by oxidation which is expected after all these years, yet it does not seem to have suffered from any discoloration, is that so in real life? Do you know how it was stored before you got it? How have you been storing it? Sorry for so many questions, but, how else is a boy to learn?

Anyway, you information will be appreciated.
Syd

[Procyon]

Yahoo! That set is a peach.

I wonder if you could supply a little provenance on your set to help with the history a lesson if possible. How long have you had it? Do you remember where you found it? Can you trace it back any farther than when you acquired it? It seems the cap pattern is very much less distinct than the barrel...is that so in real life? The browned set in question here shows the same but more progressed variation, so it is interesting that the caps are worn more than the barrel. The surface appears to have a little "grain" as is usually caused by oxidation which is expected after all these years, yet it does not seem to have suffered from any discoloration, is that so in real life? Do you know how it was stored before you got it? How have you been storing it? Sorry for so many questions, but, how else is a boy to learn?

Anyway, you information will be appreciated.
Syd

Syd, I believe I purchased it about 6 or 8 years ago - not real sure on the timeline. I do know that I bought it from Bob Novak. At about the same time I bought a blue Deco Band from him. He mentioned he had a very rare BHR chased Deco Band with pencil, and wondered if I was interested. I said "You Bet!" and snapped it up. IIRC Bob told me he only knew of some small number of these around (6 I think he said). Other than that, I don't know any of the history of the set. The cap is indeed quite a bit more worn than the barrel. I have no idea why that would be, but I dug out some of my BCHR Waterman's and some (not all) of them also show this characteristic. Both pen and pencil are very black. The only significant oxidation seems to be on the very top of the pencil. Since it is smooth, I am sure a bit of polish would blacken that up easily, while doing no harm. There is a tiny hint of browning at the lower end of the pen's barrel, but you have to look hard to see it. I have been keeping it with my other Deco Band's in a display case in the entrance hall to my home. Maybe I should put it in a darker place. It doesn't seem to have changed any in the years I have had it.

Glad to answer your questions. I thought I had all the Deco Bands, but then found out about the Flamingo. I don't count the Orange, because it seems to be a Denmark pen, and the Coral appears to be a legend.

Allan Goforth (Procyon)

Edited by Procyon, 18 January 2012 - 01:42 AM.

[David Nishimura]

I wonder if the tendency for HR pens to show more wear on their caps might have something to do with caps being more exposed to light when a pen is carried in a pocket, and thus ending up more heavily polished when the inevitable fading occurred.

[Procyon]

I wonder if the tendency for HR pens to show more wear on their caps might have something to do with caps being more exposed to light when a pen is carried in a pocket, and thus ending up more heavily polished when the inevitable fading occurred.

At first I was thinking more along the lines of mechanical wear. Perhaps the pen spent most of its life in a desk drawer. The diameter of the cap is uniform. The diameter of the barrel is smaller, and does taper down at the end.. When the cap is screwed on the pen would touch the bottom of the drawer along the entire length of the cap, and then would roll over as the drawer was opened and closed. The barrel, when screwed into the cap, would actually only touch the drawer bottom at the very end because of it's smaller diameter. Therefore, it would wear much less as the drawer was opened and closed. The only problem with this scenario, for this particular pen, is that I would expect to see less wear above the clip, since that part of the cap would not rub on the bottom of the desk drawer. On my pen, the chasing seems to be worn here as well. So this doesn't really fit the evidence.

Your idea that the chasing was polished away because of more browning of the cap seems to make sense. I can't really think of anything else.

[Procyon]

nm

Edited by Procyon, 21 January 2012 - 04:17 AM.