44 replies to this topic

[david i]

Sheaffer's 1929-1941 (approx) Balance model occasionally turns up with an uncommon nib, the two-tone Sheaffer Feathertouch #7. For now we'll skip the even more uncommon Feathertouch #8 nib. Given some of the quirks regarding pens featuring the Feathertouch #7 nib, questions have plagued The Hobby regarding its role in the Sheaffer universe.

SImilarly, a topic of conversation amongst serious Sheafferers has been the existence of Non-White-Dot (Non "Lifetime") oversized Balance pens, given that all the available Balance catalogues (which appear to be all the actual full catalogues produced, based on some later Sheaffer magazine reviews) show all oversized Balance pens as White-Dot/Lifetime.

Definitive explanations for the existence of the #7 two tone Feathertouch nib and for the non-White-Dot oversized Balances have been lacking, certainly explanations backed by hard source data.

I'm pleased to present Sheaffer material that explains both the Non White Dot oversized Balance and the Feathertouch #7 nib. Amazing what the right piece of paper can do for one's day

First, a brief review of pertinent Sheaffer models and nibs.

Sheaffer's oversized (OS) Balance appears in catalogues in the typical White-Dot form, with appropriate Lifetime Nib.

Oversized pen, as catalogued with White Dot and with Lifetime nib.

The long standard sized Balance is catalogued both as White Dot (with Lifetime nib) and non-White-Dot (originally with "5-30" nib, later with Feathertouch #5 nib)

Late era White Dot Standard (long) Balance. Lifetime nib. Monstrously rare in this color with off-catalogue double cap-band

r\Non-White-Dot Standard (long) Balance with 5-30 (early) or Feathertouch #5 nib (late)

However, seemingly off-catalogue non-White-Dot oversized pens have turned up with either the "5-30" nib of the thinner, standard non-white dot pen, or more oddly, with a Feathertouch #7 nib, that is not shown in the formal catalogues for any pen. Here are two "middle era" (1931-1935 release) color oversized pens with such nibs. Now, IF a non-white-dot OS were produced, it would make sense at first thought to find- yes- the "5-30" nib for pens during that era and... perhaps... typical Feathertouch #5 nibs (harvested from later standard size non-white dot pens.

But, how to explain a Feathertouch #7 nib? Worse still for puzzled collectors, the big non-Lifetime Feathertouch #7 nib also sometimes appears in long standard pens, pen which we'd expect to find with Feathertouch #5 nib, as catalogued.

Two oversized NON-WHITE-DOT Balance pens, the Ebonized Pearl being a slightly later color than gray/red. One has a Feathertouch #7 nib, the

So, what's up with the Oversized and Long/Standard pens found with Feathertouch #7.

Well, the answers to both the Non-White-Dot oversized pens and to the Feathertouch #7 nib can be found in a 1934 dealer pamphlet.

The page posted below (with highlights in green) provide the key information. Peruse it, then see the summary below it.

1934 Sheaffer Pamphlet for dealers

Impression:

• While for most of the Balance run, Sheaffer offered one tier of oversized pen (white dot/lifetime) and two tiers of standard size pen (white-dot/Lifetime-nib and non-white-dot pen with 5-30 nib then FT #5 nib), it seems that around 1934 Sheaffer offered an extra tier Balance both in OS and in Standard.

• The extra tier 1934-ish oversized pen was a non-Lifetime model positioned below the common White-Dot OS. It is the "Large" pen referenced for the FT#7 nib in the pamphlet page. It is not unreasonable that the 5-30 nibs found in some of these, generally with "early" colors, represent pre-#7 nib pens meant for same niche.

• The extra tier standard size pen with FT#7 nib was slotted between the typical and well documented White Dot pen with Lifetime nib, and the non-White-Dot pen that had either the "5-30" for early pens and FT#5 nib for later pens. The White Dot Lifetime pen was priced as expected at $10 and the usual non-White-Dot pen was priced at $5. The up-scale non-Lifetime standard pen with FT#7 nib hit the middle at $7.50

• The #7-Line oversized and standard pens are cited as being available in Black, Marine Green, Grey Pearl (red/gray), and Ebonized Pearl (a new color in 1934) . This is compatible with my experience finding non-White-Dot oversize pens in Gray/Red and Ebonized Pearl. Of note, Saul Kitchener just sold on ebay a standard 7-Line (FT #7 nib) in the later Gray/Black version of Grey Pearl. Assuming the pen does not represent a swap of the nib-section assembly, this suggests the #7-line continued long enough to absorb that 1935 color. In fact, I have vague recollection that Rob Morrison has had an OS gray/black non-WD pen with FT#7 nib.

Conclusion and remaining questions... :

So, it seems around 1934, persisting at least into 1935, Sheaffer manufactured an extra Balance configuration in OS and in standard sizes. Why did the line fail? I don't know. Perhaps too many options cut sales for each tier, hitting the new #7 line disproportionately. Perhaps those who were willing to spend $7.50 were willing to spend the extra $2 or so to get to Lifetime pen with better warranty. Perhaps those spending $5 for a non-Lifetime standard were not willing to pay an extra $2.50 for the same warranty but a slightly larger nib. While high line modern pens often cost well more than inflation-adjusted values for the 1930's, the parallel situation would be today something along lines of Omas offering an Arco for $600 but offering it with slightly larger gold nib for $900, a 50% bump for no benefit save slighly more impressive point.

We are left with that speculation (other views invited) to explain the short run for the #7 pens.

And, we are left to continue considering the explanation for the rarer still Feather Touch #8 nib, which is about the size of the OS Lifetime nib, and one of which I've found hiding in a true Lifetime White Dot OS pen.

Comments invited.

regards

David

[snorkelcc]

Hi David,

Thanks for sharing these info !

If FT#5 is the successor of 5-30, any chance FT#7 is because of 7-30 ?

From your photo, it seems that the nib size of 5-30 is almost the same as FT#7, not sure how does this FT#7 compare to 7-30 ? May be it is a good idea to do a nib comparison later …

CC

[barriep]

A very interesting thread, especially as I find that I have an O/S Balance set with a #8 Feathertouch nib. I had no idea this was not a common as well as cheaper model!

[david i]

A very interesting thread, especially as I find that I have an O/S Balance set with a #8 Feathertouch nib. I had no idea this was not a common as well as cheaper model!

Hi Barrie,

Good to see you here.

The FT#8 nib is most scarce. I've had one turn up in a Lifetime White Dot OS, but of course I cannot exclude a swap. That is is a rare nib and turned up in a rare off-catalogue variant I find... interesting. But, I cannot make conclusion.

We had a thread ont the rare Feather Touch #8 nib (which touched of course on the FT#7 nib and the non-White-Dot) reently. I invite you to peek.

http://fountainpenbo...ib-early-1930s/

I don't have Sheaffer information regarding the FT #8 nib, and my guess would be that the only fellow who might have hard Sheaffer data won't share. That is is habit. So, until I stumble on some information, we can but speculate. Note that in the prior thread, it seems that I, Roger, Rob, and Matt-- all of whom play a fair bit with Balance-- seemingly were at that time unaware of the 1934 paper confirming the "#7 Line".

As most examples of the FT #8 seem to be turning up in similar pens to those that housed the FT #7 (namely the OS Non White Dot pens, noting of course that #7 nib also is cited for being available in standard size pen), one might hypothesize that the FT-8 replaced the FT-7 at some point in that niche, noting that the #8 has been seen in slighly later color the gray/black pearl (Grey Pearl #2) from 1935, though apparently the 7-LIne was still used into 1935.

In an easy world, perhaps the FT #8 nib would have been highly flexible offering a quick alternative to the imagined "firm Lifetime nib", but it is not and indeed Lifetime nibs are found flexible anyway.

regards

David

[david i]

Hi David, Thanks for sharing these info ! If FT#5 is the successor of 5-30, any chance FT#7 is because of 7-30 ? From your photo, it seems that the nib size of 5-30 is almost the same as FT#7, not sure how does this FT#7 compare to 7-30 ? May be it is a good idea to do a nib comparison later … CC

Hi Snork.

Hypothesis always is key part of the game, so such is always invited and indeed appreciated

In this case, I lean away from that explanation, though I keep open mind and can see some fuzzy edge. Since I cannot be absolute in this, let's play with some of the observations.

Yeah, we generally consider FT #5 nib the successor reflexively to the 5-30, and most models that serve the same niche and close price point during the late and early eras, featured those nibs, respectively. The non-Feather-Touch #3 nib did replace the 3-25 in the slender non-white dot long models, showing carryover of one of the digits. Intention or coincidence. The FT nibs seem just to convey size. I've heard assertions (not researched by me) that when 5-20, 3-25 nibs etc started the numbers conveyed detail about price and/or warranty. Maybe Roger can comment on that. The numbers on the FT nibs seem not to do that, reflecting size instead, though number choices for sizes are arbitrary thing, and perhaps some nostalgia was present in Sheaffer's choice for FT #'s.

The 7-30 stared as the nib found in the non-Lifetime OS flat-top. Yep, the FT #7 serves that role in NWD OS Balance, but also fits a standard pen, which 7-30 didn't.

And-- though agin recognizing lack of source data- the FT #8 also is found in the NWD OS pens, though, come to think of it, early pens-- flat tops early on-- did feature a #8 Self Filler nib.

I do need at some point to measure FT #7 nibs and related items. I cannot weigh them, but maybe can at least do rough width/length recognizing that different points sometimes result in different shapes to individual nibs.


A serious possibility (utterly unproven) for the FT #8 nib is that rather being an eventual replacement-- or actual predecessor- to the FT #7 nib in the oversized non-lifetime pen, that it represented yet another tier/option available in parallel. The typical OS Lifetime Balance was $10 in 1934. The "7-Line" non Lifetime (non White Dot) Balance was listed at $7.50. Given that nib was the only difference in the standard non-lifetime pen ($5 for FT #5 nib, $7.50 for the FT #7 nib), perhaps the OS non White Dot pen was offered with the bigger FT #8 nib at price between $7.50 and $10.

Thoughts?

regards

David

[snorkelcc]

Hi David,

Thanks for sharing these info !

If FT#5 is the successor of 5-30, any chance FT#7 is because of 7-30 ?

From your photo, it seems that the nib size of 5-30 is almost the same as FT#7, not sure how does this FT#7 compare to 7-30 ? May be it is a good idea to do a nib comparison later …

CC

Hi Snork.

Hypothesis always is key part of the game, so such is always invited and indeed appreciated

In this case, I lean away from that explanation, though I keep open mind and can see some fuzzy edge. Since I cannot be absolute in this, let's play with some of the observations.

Yeah, we generally consider FT #5 nib the successor reflexively to the 5-30, and most models that serve the same niche and close price point during the late and early eras, featured those nibs, respectively. The non-Feather-Touch nib did replace the 3-25 in the slender non-white dot long models, showing carryover of one of the digits. Intention or coincidence. The FT nibs seem just to convey size. I've heard assertions (not researched by me) that when 5-20, 3-25 nibs etc started the numbers conveyed detail about price and/or warranty. Maybe Roger can comment on that. The numbers on the FT nibs seem not to do that, reflecting size instead, though number choices for sizes are arbitrary thing, and perhaps some nostalgia was present in Sheaffer's choice for FT #'s.

The 7-30 stared as the nib found in the non-Lifetime OS flat-top. Yep, the FT #7 serves that role in NWD OS Balance, but also fits a standard pen, which 7-30 didn't.

And-- though agin recognizing lack of source data- the FT #8 also is found in the NWD OS pens, though, come to think of it, early pens did feature a #8 Self Filler nib.

I do need at some point to measure FT #7 nibs and related items. I cannot weigh them, but maybe can at least do rough width/length recognizing that different points sometimes result in different shapes to individual nibs.


A serious possibility (utterly unproven) for the FT #8 nib is that rather being an eventual replacement-- or actual predecessor- to the FT #7 nib in the oversized non-lifetime pen, that it represented yet another tier/option available in parallel. The typical OS Lifetime Balance was $10 in 1934. The "7-Line" non Lifetime (non White Dot) Balance was listed at $7.50. Given that nib was the only difference in the standard non-lifetime pen ($5 for FT #5 nib, $7.50 for the FT #7 nib), perhaps the OS non White Dot pen was offered with the bigger FT #8 nib at price between $7.50 and $10.

Thoughts?

regards

David

Hi David,
It will be a very interesting topic for research... let's start by measuring the points...

CC

[Roger W.]

David and CC;

Measuring you points will get you very little as they are relative to the time when they were made (really, a data point I wouldn't bother to construct). Anyway, nibs are all a continuum of a sort. Sheaffer started with 2,3,4,5, and 6. An 8 self-filling was quickly added which put them over Conklin's 7. Then we get variations - Lifetimes (and Lady Lifetimes), 22 Student Specials (long before a nib it was a model designation), 46 Specials and Secretarys. Secretary was truly new as it is the first 7 which turned into the 7-30 and then the 7 feathertouch. Looks to me like all nibs got downsized when they went to balances. So in 1935 a 3 is small a 5 FT larger and a 7 FT larger still but, not by much. A 5-30 cap will go on a 7FT barrel.

7's are in the '35 catalogue on page 7.

Roger W.

[david i]

David and CC;

Measuring you points will get you very little as they are relative to the time when they were made (really, a data point I wouldn't bother to construct). Anyway, nibs are all a continuum of a sort. Sheaffer started with 2,3,4,5, and 6. An 8 self-filling was quickly added which put them over Conklin's 7. Then we get variations - Lifetimes (and Lady Lifetimes), 22 Student Specials (long before a nib it was a model designation), 46 Specials and Secretarys. Secretary was truly new as it is the first 7 which turned into the 7-30 and then the 7 feathertouch. Looks to me like all nibs got downsized when they went to balances. So in 1935 a 3 is small a 5 FT larger and a 7 FT larger still but, not by much. A 5-30 cap will go on a 7FT barrel.

7's are in the '35 catalogue on page 7.

Roger W.

Hi Roger,

Good info thanks.

I do wonder about the notion that "7-30 turned into 7 FT". IIRC, 7-30 never was fitted to a standard size pen, FT #7 obviously was. The OS pens with the FT #7 have extra thick section (vs more common WD Lifetime OS), because- as you note- the FT -7 nib is smaller than the old 7-30.

A "5-30 cap" fitting the standard-size pen with FT #7 nib makes sense. Per the image in the first post, the standard 7-line pen is just a far more prevalent 5-line pen with upgraded nib assembly, unless I'm missing something.

Since we as of yet have no Sheaffer info offered regarding the rare FT#8 nib, is it possible that nib served niche previously played by 7-30... an essentially Lifetime sized OS nib meant for OS pens that lacked the lifetime warranty? As opposed to the 7-line pens of this sort that offer markedly smaller nib in the non-white-dot OS pen vs the usual large lifetime nib in WD pens?

regards

david

[Roger W.]

David and CC;

Measuring you points will get you very little as they are relative to the time when they were made (really, a data point I wouldn't bother to construct). Anyway, nibs are all a continuum of a sort. Sheaffer started with 2,3,4,5, and 6. An 8 self-filling was quickly added which put them over Conklin's 7. Then we get variations - Lifetimes (and Lady Lifetimes), 22 Student Specials (long before a nib it was a model designation), 46 Specials and Secretarys. Secretary was truly new as it is the first 7 which turned into the 7-30 and then the 7 feathertouch. Looks to me like all nibs got downsized when they went to balances. So in 1935 a 3 is small a 5 FT larger and a 7 FT larger still but, not by much. A 5-30 cap will go on a 7FT barrel.

7's are in the '35 catalogue on page 7.

Roger W.

Hi Roger,

Good info thanks.

I do wonder about the notion that "7-30 turned into 7 FT". IIRC, 7-30 never was fitted to a standard size pen, FT #7 obviously was. The OS pens with the FT #7 have extra thick section (vs more common WD Lifetime OS), because- as you note- the FT -7 nib is smaller than the old 7-30.

A "5-30 cap" fitting the standard-size pen with FT #7 nib makes sense. Per the image in the first post, the standard 7-line pen is just a far more prevalent 5-line pen with upgraded nib assembly, unless I'm missing something.

Since we as of yet have no Sheaffer info offered regarding the rare FT#8 nib, is it possible that nib served niche previously played by 7-30... an essentially Lifetime sized OS nib meant for OS pens that lacked the lifetime warranty? As opposed to the 7-line pens of this sort that offer markedly smaller nib in the non-white-dot OS pen vs the usual large lifetime nib in WD pens?

regards

david

David;

7-30 turned into the 7 FT is more in line with the tradition of a 7 nib lived on though no comment is meant by me as to equivalent models as obviously the one pen I have is the same size as the 5-30 (both of these were red veins BTW).

Roger W.

[david i]

David;

7-30 turned into the 7 FT is more in line with the tradition of a 7 nib lived on though no comment is meant by me as to equivalent models as obviously the one pen I have is the same size as the 5-30 (both of these were red veins BTW).

Roger W.

Fair enough. I admit I'm focusing on market niche, role in hierarchy. There is something to be said for tradition, too

-d

[Roger W.]

David;

This dealer piece was being floated around a few years ago on the net. You can plainly see the 7 FT.

Roger W.

[david i]

David;

This dealer piece was being floated around a few years ago on the net. You can plainly see the 7 FT.

Roger W.

Cool.

I might be missing it, but it seems this page does not offer the OS #7, just the more common OS Lifetime?

d

[Roger W.]

David;

I don't think the 7 was ever an OS. The '34 brochure shows a standard sized pen and the ones I've seen are standard. The non lifetime OS's I'm familiar with have 5-30 nibs.

Roger W.

[david i]

David;

I don't think the 7 was ever an OS. The '34 brochure shows a standard sized pen and the ones I've seen are standard. The non lifetime OS's I'm familiar with have 5-30 nibs.

Roger W.

Hi Roger,

However, unlike what I see in the ad just shown, the '34 brochure explicitly cites the #7 line in OS.

Do review the green highlights I placed, back in the first post. The White Dot Line is listed Large size and Long (large is OS). The #5 line is listed Long not Large. The #7 line is listed Large size and Long Size

Thoughts?

regards

david

[Roger W.]

David;

I don't think the 7 was ever an OS. The '34 brochure shows a standard sized pen and the ones I've seen are standard. The non lifetime OS's I'm familiar with have 5-30 nibs.

Roger W.

Hi Roger,

However, unlike what I see in the ad just shown, the '34 brochure explicitly cites the #7 line in OS.

Do review the green highlights I placed, back in the first post. The White Dot Line is listed Large size and Long (large is OS). The #5 line is listed Long not Large. The #7 line is listed Large size and Long Size (hmmm...)

Thoughts?

regards

david

David;

Yes and no. Is Sheaffer saying all large pens are OS? Or is this ad copy that is not square with what was produced? Look at the picture and compare the diameters - 7's are not OS they are standard (print the page and measure a compared to "b". Now maybe (a) is OS and "b" is long but, I'm not familiar with OS 7's. Have you got OS 7's? I'll grant you that OS 7's are certainly allowed for in the ad copy. I've got ads with Student Lifetime nibs and 2 1/2 nibs - I would defy you to find those nibs.

Roger

[david i]

David;

Yes and no. Is Sheaffer saying all large pens are OS? Or is this ad copy that is not square with what was produced? Look at the picture and compare the diameters - 7's are not OS they are standard (print the page and measure a compared to "b". Now maybe (a) is OS and "b" is long but, I'm not familiar with OS 7's. Have you got OS 7's? I'll grant you that OS 7's are certainly allowed for in the ad copy. I've got ads with Student Lifetime nibs and 2 1/2 nibs - I would defy you to find those nibs.

Roger

Hi Roger,

You might be over reading the material. Look again at the ad. The word OS is not mentioned. Rather, what we believe to be an OS is shown in Lifetime (presumably, "Large") and a Long pen is mentioned. The #7 line is mentioned and a smaller pen is shown, though the line is offered in Large and in cheaper Long. Thus, the smaller pen shown is the Long. The Large, implicitly in the #7-Line description is the OS. It would be odd (yeah, I should go prove that, right) for Sheaffer to mean different things in adjacent descriptions by "Large" and by "Long"

The 7 SHows the non-OS (long). The Lifetime shows the OS (Large). Both #7 and Lifetime lines are offered in those two sizes.

And... my photo above of an OS Ebonized shows the #7 nib in it. Others of this sort might have been mentioned in the thread we had on FT #8 nib.

regards

david

[Roger W.]

David;

Yes and no. Is Sheaffer saying all large pens are OS? Or is this ad copy that is not square with what was produced? Look at the picture and compare the diameters - 7's are not OS they are standard (print the page and measure a compared to "b". Now maybe (a) is OS and "b" is long but, I'm not familiar with OS 7's. Have you got OS 7's? I'll grant you that OS 7's are certainly allowed for in the ad copy. I've got ads with Student Lifetime nibs and 2 1/2 nibs - I would defy you to find those nibs.

Roger

Hi Roger,

You might be over reading the material. Look again at the ad. The word OS is not mentioned. Rather, what we believe to be an OS is shown in Lifetime (presumably, "Large") and a Long pen is mentioned. The #7 line is mentioned and a smaller pen is shown, though the line is offered in Large and in cheaper Long. Thus, the smaller pen shown is the Long. The Large, implicitly in the #7-Line description is the OS. It would be odd (yeah, I should go prove that, right) for Sheaffer to mean different things in adjacent descriptions by "Large" and by "Long"

The 7 SHows the non-OS (long). The Lifetime shows the OS (Large). Both #7 and Lifetime lines are offered in those two sizes.

And... my photo above of an OS Ebonized shows the #7 nib in it. Others of this sort might have been mentioned in the thread we had on FT #8 nib.

regards

david

David;

Apparently you didn't read were Student Lifetimes pens were being touted in an ad though they never existed. I do believe your earlier photo is showing an ebonized pearl OS sporting a 7 FT - I hadn't ran into these before - so yes they exist. I've seen a few of the 5-30 OS's. So between the '34 brochure and the '35 dealer flyer (from Fred Krinke's collection - not sure what more attribution I can give) perhaps the 7FT was dropped as an OS - certainly not a lot of then around. Keep in mind though, just because it is in print doesn't make it real. You always have to be careful of what the text says and what is born out in practice - and the early 30's are almost as murky as the teens - lack of documentation, examples that don't seen to square with anything, etc.

Roger W.



This appeared in the August 1925 issue of the Saturday Evening Post - There is no evidence that a Student Lifetime pen exists. I've circled the nib and underlined the text.

[david i]

David;

Apparently you didn't read were Student Lifetimes pens were being touted in an ad though they never existed. I do believe your earlier photo is showing an ebonized pearl OS sporting a 7 FT - I hadn't ran into these before - so yes they exist. I've seen a few of the 5-30 OS's. So between the '34 brochure and the '35 dealer flyer (from Fred Krinke's collection - not sure what more attribution I can give) perhaps the 7FT was dropped as an OS - certainly not a lot of then around. Keep in mind though, just because it is in print doesn't make it real. You always have to be careful of what the text says and what is born out in practice - and the early 30's are almost as murky as the teens - lack of documentation, examples that don't seen to square with anything, etc.

Roger W.


This appeared in the August 1925 issue of the Saturday Evening Post - There is no evidence that a Student Lifetime pen exists. I've circled the nib and underlined the text.

Hi Roger,

It should be apparent that I have not read many things that someone or another might have seen. Thus, even old news can have merit in fresh presentation

You seem to be blending a theoretical concern with what seems to be an observed reality... thus perhaps muddling the core issue now in play. I will try to sort the key points. Do feel free to correct me.

First. Yes, I agree... in the general case not all company literature-- certainly retrospective and sometimes even prospective-- will necessarily be complete, accurate and true. This no doubt adds to the challenge and perhaps fun of figuring out what was what and in particular if oddities found are described by the manufacturer... and if all items described by manufacturer actually were produced as described or at all.

Second. However, most prospective documentation reflects real models (if not every last detail in drawings), and thus in general is a very sound basis for anticipating actual pens to be found. Obviously, those newer to hunting will more easily find most of what is in catalogues than will someone who has hunted twenty years and has never seen an example of one of the quirkier items found in manufacturer literature.

----------------

So, bringing this to (first) your example. The Student Lifetime pen might exist-- so far unfound by you-- or that advert indeed might represent a model or nib that in fact was not produced. Always a challenge.

But, you seem similarly to have figured the "7-line" OS Balance was not produced in the face of documentation for it... but it indeed does exist, with my example shown above and possibly other examples in the earlier FT#8 thread here at FPB. This drives home the painful point that our not having seen an example of something that is documented, does not prove its nonexistence. Of course, with negatives rather hard to prove, this still leaves us uncertain as to your Student Lifetime nib...

------------------

Getting back to the 1934 Sheaffer brochure, In my view it clearly defines both the OS and Standard pens in #7 line. We have now of course seen actual pens as well. I"m guessing that the OS Non White Dot pens with 5-30 nib (both I've seen are gray/red) represent an earlier approach to NWD OS. Your 1935-ish brochure does not mention the OS NWD pen, and I need to check the 1935 catalogue that reportedly shows the #7-Line to see what is described and illustrated.

Oh and don't worry on attribution. I don't care where this non copyrightable image was physically housed. I'm just giving grief in fashion I received a bit' my poke was meant to be facetious.

I was more interested as to what the image comes from, in the Sheaffer context.. .an ad, a brochure page or what have you.

I also am charmed, but not surprised, that despite the 1934 brochure with which I started this thread, not being fresh info for every last person in the hobby, clearly it provokes good thought and need for interpretation, right down to discussion about suggestion about the existence of the OS non-white-dot pen, as per our couple posts just now.

regards

david

[Roger W.]

David;

Apparently you didn't read were Student Lifetimes pens were being touted in an ad though they never existed. I do believe your earlier photo is showing an ebonized pearl OS sporting a 7 FT - I hadn't ran into these before - so yes they exist. I've seen a few of the 5-30 OS's. So between the '34 brochure and the '35 dealer flyer (from Fred Krinke's collection - not sure what more attribution I can give) perhaps the 7FT was dropped as an OS - certainly not a lot of then around. Keep in mind though, just because it is in print doesn't make it real. You always have to be careful of what the text says and what is born out in practice - and the early 30's are almost as murky as the teens - lack of documentation, examples that don't seen to square with anything, etc.

Roger W.


This appeared in the August 1925 issue of the Saturday Evening Post - There is no evidence that a Student Lifetime pen exists. I've circled the nib and underlined the text.

Hi Roger,

It should be apparent that I have not read many things that someone or another might have seen. Thus, even old news can have merit in fresh presentation

You seem to be blending a theoretical concern with what seems to be an observed reality... thus perhaps muddling the core issue now in play. I will try to sort the key points. Do feel free to correct me.

First. Yes, I agree... in the general case not all company literature-- certainly retrospective and sometimes even prospective-- will necessarily be complete, accurate and true. This no doubt adds to the challenge and perhaps fun of figuring out what was what and in particular if oddities found are described by the manufacturer... and if all items described by manufacturer actually were produced as described or at all.

Second. However, most prospective documentation reflects real models (if not every last detail in drawings), and thus in general is a very sound basis for anticipating actual pens to be found. Obviously, those newer to hunting will more easily find most of what is in catalogues than will someone who has hunted twenty years and has never seen an example of one of the quirkier items found in manufacturer literature.

----------------

So, bringing this to (first) your example. The Student Lifetime pen might exist-- so far unfound by you-- or that advert indeed might represent a model or nib that in fact was not produced. Always a challenge.

But, you seem similarly to have figured the "7-line" OS Balance was not produced in the face of documentation for it... but it indeed does exist, with my example shown above and possibly other examples in the earlier FT#8 thread here at FPB. This drives home the painful point that our not having seen an example of something that is documented, does not prove its nonexistence. Of course, with negatives rather hard to prove, this still leaves us uncertain as to your Student Lifetime nib...

------------------

Getting back to the 1934 Sheaffer brochure, In my view it clearly defines both the OS and Standard pens in #7 line. We have now of course seen actual pens as well. I"m guessing that the OS Non White Dot pens with 5-30 nib (both I've seen are gray/red) represent an earlier approach to NWD OS. Your 1935-ish brochure does not mention the OS NWD pen, and I need to check the 1935 catalogue that reportedly shows the #7-Line to see what is described and illustrated.

Oh and don't worry on attribution. I don't care where this non copyrightable image was physically housed. I'm just giving grief in fashion I received a bit' my poke was meant to be facetious.

I was more interested as to what the image comes from, in the Sheaffer context.. .an ad, a brochure page or what have you.

I also am charmed, but not surprised, that despite the 1934 brochure with which I started this thread, not being fresh info for every last person in the hobby, clearly it provokes good thought and need for interpretation, right down to discussion about suggestion about the existence of the OS non-white-dot pen, as per our couple posts just now.

regards

david

David;

I had not carefully perused your pic of the 7FT OS - not a pen I am familiar with. It is interesting that for a time the 5-30 was an OS and not a 7-30 which suggests, for a time, that the 7 nib was dropped entirely (likely '31-'32 or close that that range). I already told you the page the '35 stuff is on for the 7FT. These are either standard or short being the same diameter as the 5FT on the page and in my experience (no code indicating a large option). I'll have to keep an eye out for 7FT OS's which, likely, were offered for a short time - one of those odd late depression offerings. The '36 catalogue suggests the economy was improving sufficiently that a 7FT is no longer offered and two new colors available. The 7FT is likely in use in the 1933 ad that shows an OS non white dot though with all FT ads the nib number is not illustrated (August 26, 1933 Literary Digest).

It may be worth discussing elsewhere the caveats of written company material. Some really on it too heavily for example, if we relied too heavily on Sheaffer documentation the conclusion would be that flattops were halted in 1930. Ephemera is great stuff and I almost prefer it over the pens but, you just have to be cautious especially during periods when actual practices seem sketchy compared with company documentation. I have seen one fellow react so violently against company literature as to indicate that it was all a bunch of unreliable work and those that used it to date things optimistic in the extreme. That goes way too far to the other extreme. Ephemera should be approached with caution but, it is great stuff.

Roger W.

[david i]

David;

I had not carefully perused your pic of the 7FT OS - not a pen I am familiar with. It is interesting that for a time the 5-30 was an OS and not a 7-30 which suggests, for a time, that the 7 nib was dropped entirely (likely '31-'32 or close that that range). I already told you the page the '35 stuff is on for the 7FT. These are either standard or short being the same diameter as the 5FT on the page and in my experience (no code indicating a large option). I'll have to keep an eye out for 7FT OS's which, likely, were offered for a short time - one of those odd late depression offerings. The '36 catalogue suggests the economy was improving sufficiently that a 7FT is no longer offered and two new colors available. The 7FT is likely in use in the 1933 ad that shows an OS non white dot though with all FT ads the nib number is not illustrated (August 26, 1933 Literary Digest).

It may be worth discussing elsewhere the caveats of written company material. Some really on it too heavily for example, if we relied too heavily on Sheaffer documentation the conclusion would be that flattops were halted in 1930. Ephemera is great stuff and I almost prefer it over the pens but, you just have to be cautious especially during periods when actual practices seem sketchy compared with company documentation. I have seen one fellow react so violently against company literature as to indicate that it was all a bunch of unreliable work and those that used it to date things optimistic in the extreme. That goes way too far to the other extreme. Ephemera should be approached with caution but, it is great stuff.

Roger W.

We might be agreeing on many things.

...Scary...

I'd like to do a comparison amongst the'34 brochure, the '35 catalogue and the paper you just printed (what is the date on that?) to compare side by side which sizes/colors were so offered.

Also, do post the 1933 piece with NWD OS Balance.

regards

david