29 replies to this topic

[Euro Vintage]

Friends

This post is deliberately created so that fellow pen collectors doing research on this guy from Korea is aware of his record of selling fakes

He just changed his name from jeffriad to yeujeff so when you Google "fake pens yeujeff" there is no listing.

I referred you to the the previous post by the respected David Nishimura which I found when googling "fake pens jeffriad"

I hope it could save another (or a few) other collector(s) from wasting their hard earned cash.

Regards

Edited by Euro Vintage, 09 July 2012 - 03:07 AM.

[Rockyrod]

Has this "faker maker" mostly produced 51's or has he branched out to include other high end pens?

[Euro Vintage]

Has this "faker maker" mostly produced 51's or has he branched out to include other high end pens?

Mostly Parker incl. Big Red Bandless, Yellow Thread Mandarin Yellow Sr and numerous P51 (1941 or 1942)

No MB or Waterman that I can see

Nor is there any LE (limited edition) Parker pens

[david i]

Thanks for the update. Such fraud damages the hobby no doubt, and once this starts it tends to accelerate.

regards

david

[Euro Vintage]

Thanks for the update. Such fraud damages the hobby no doubt, and once this starts it tends to accelerate.

regards

david

David

Most of us are automatically on guard for new(er) pens e.g. MB

This guy takes a different tack: all vintage and very rare models of Parker.

Which one of us (pro or amateur) would have TWO yellow-thread Mandarin Yellow Sr with a perfect (i.e. laser engraving) maker's marks for sale within three months of each other - for approximately 50% of the asking price from established collectors?

See example 1 and example 2

Or see example 3 - going for 50% less than what Pete Conrad is asking.

Refer to David Nishimura's and others' postings on a Bandless Big Red Sr in my OP about laser engravings.

Thus far, David, I have not seen any Vac offering yet.

*****

On a different note, a similar posting (by yours truly) on another board was removed within the hour - without any notice or explanation to its creator.

It speaks volumes about their attitudes to fraud and fraudsters.

It seems they do not want to alert collectors to this fraudster.

*****

Cheers

Edited by Euro Vintage, 10 July 2012 - 12:41 AM.

[david i]

Thanks for the update. Such fraud damages the hobby no doubt, and once this starts it tends to accelerate.

regards

david

David

Most of us are automatically on guard for new(er) pens e.g. MB

This guy takes a different tack: all vintage and very rare models of Parker.

Which one of us (pro or amateur) would have TWO yellow-thread Mandarin Yellow Sr with a perfect (i.e. laser engraving) maker's marks for sale within three months of each other - for approximately 50% of the asking price from established collectors?

See example 1 and example 2

Or see example 3 - going for 50% less than what Pete Conrad is asking.

Refer to David Nishimura's and others' postings on a Bandless Big Red Sr in my OP about laser engravings.

Thus far, David, I have not seen any Vac offering yet.

*****

On a different note, a similar posting (by yours truly) on another board was removed within the hour - without any notice or explanation to its creator.

It speaks volumes about their attitudes to fraud and fraudsters.

It seems they do not want to alert collectors to this fraudster.

*****

Cheers

We try for a gentler approach to moderation here.

d

[Euro Vintage]

We try for a gentler approach to moderation here.

d



[/quote]

+1

That's how it should be

Edited by Euro Vintage, 10 July 2012 - 12:59 AM.

[FarmBoy]

Thanks for the update. Such fraud damages the hobby no doubt, and once this starts it tends to accelerate.

regards

david

David

Most of us are automatically on guard for new(er) pens e.g. MB

This guy takes a different tack: all vintage and very rare models of Parker.

Which one of us (pro or amateur) would have TWO yellow-thread Mandarin Yellow Sr with a perfect (i.e. laser engraving) maker's marks for sale within three months of each other - for approximately 50% of the asking price from established collectors?

See example 1 and example 2

Or see example 3 - going for 50% less than what Pete Conrad is asking.

Refer to David Nishimura's and others' postings on a Bandless Big Red Sr in my OP about laser engravings.

Thus far, David, I have not seen any Vac offering yet.

*****

On a different note, a similar posting (by yours truly) on another board was removed within the hour - without any notice or explanation to its creator.

It speaks volumes about their attitudes to fraud and fraudsters.

It seems they do not want to alert collectors to this fraudster.

*****

Cheers

I missed your post. Sad to see they removed it on the other board.

[David Nishimura]

I noticed the censored post.

I was Googling to see if the miscreant's new user name led to info on his activities (it did already) and the now-deleted post popped up but was no longer there when the link was clicked. Odd that it was deleted, given that other discussions of his fakery have been left alone there.

[Euro Vintage]

I noticed the censored post.

I was Googling to see if the miscreant's new user name led to info on his activities (it did already) and the now-deleted post popped up but was no longer there when the link was clicked. Odd that it was deleted, given that other discussions of his fakery have been left alone there.

David

Sadly, the old FPN links you were referring to were deleted when I checked today ("Parker 51 fraud", "Parker Nassau ? remake")

They are surely showering this Korean dealer with lots of love.

The distinction between the two group is so stark.

Tri

[Hugh]

The behavior of those that run the FPN comes as no surprise to some of us here ( which does have it's up side...this board created out of their absurd behavior... a real positive as far as I'm concerned !!) but this seems to defy all logic, the reason can only be speculated upon. So here goes!! 2 issues. the legal position of allowing an item to be called a "fake" without it having been proven and a "duty of care" to the FPN members. Which should take precedence? In this case the owners of the FPN clearly would prefer to cover themselves than the "members" (which is quiet understandable but wrong) but by not allowing open debate a "member" may buy one of these "fakes" and suffer a financial loss and in this case, the posts having been removed, would have a case against the FPN. On the other hand the person peddling the "fake" would have little chance of proving his product wasn't a "fake" , the likelihood of him taking legal action is nil. I've mentioned it before but again the FPN does have a duty of care to those that join and the removal of information that may prevent a member being financially disadvantaged is a breach of that. Another wrong call by those inept fools...

Regards
Hugh

[Euro Vintage]

The behavior of those that run the FPN comes as no surprise to some of us here ( which does have it's up side...this board created out of their absurd behavior... a real positive as far as I'm concerned !!) but this seems to defy all logic, the reason can only be speculated upon. So here goes!! 2 issues. the legal position of allowing an item to be called a "fake" without it having been proven and a "duty of care" to the FPN members. Which should take precedence? In this case the owners of the FPN clearly would prefer to cover themselves than the "members" (which is quiet understandable but wrong) but by not allowing open debate a "member" may buy one of these "fakes" and suffer a financial loss and in this case, the posts having been removed, would have a case against the FPN. On the other hand the person peddling the "fake" would have little chance of proving his product wasn't a "fake" , the likelihood of him taking legal action is nil. I've mentioned it before but again the FPN does have a duty of care to those that join and the removal of information that may prevent a member being financially disadvantaged is a breach of that. Another wrong call by those inept fools...

Regards
Hugh

+1

A fellow Aussie

[AndyR]

1341975539[/url]' post='16075']
The behavior of those that run the FPN comes as no surprise to some of us here ( which does have it's up side...this board created out of their absurd behavior... a real positive as far as I'm concerned !!) but this seems to defy all logic, the reason can only be speculated upon. So here goes!! 2 issues. the legal position of allowing an item to be called a "fake" without it having been proven and a "duty of care" to the FPN members. Which should take precedence? In this case the owners of the FPN clearly would prefer to cover themselves than the "members" (which is quiet understandable but wrong) but by not allowing open debate a "member" may buy one of these "fakes" and suffer a financial loss and in this case, the posts having been removed, would have a case against the FPN. On the other hand the person peddling the "fake" would have little chance of proving his product wasn't a "fake" , the likelihood of him taking legal action is nil. I've mentioned it before but again the FPN does have a duty of care to those that join and the removal of information that may prevent a member being financially disadvantaged is a breach of that. Another wrong call by those inept fools...

Regards
Hugh

I was going to post similar thoughts so you saved me the trouble, thanks Hugh!
Given that FPN must be inhabited by many more newcomers than experienced collectors, a warning regarding fakes on ebay would be precisely the sort of information they would welcome. Ironic, isn't it?
Andy

[John Danza]

A couple of thoughts on this topic. First, I echo David Nishumura's thoughts from a different thread on this guy, where David noted this guy is clearly skilled and would make a good living creating replicas. All he would need to do is add the marking "replica" such as Chris Thompson did. The pens look great. I don't know if there's a way to get through to this guy, but it would be interesting to see what would happen if he were given some guidance in this direction.

Second, I'm not sure that there's much difference between what this guy's doing and what Ariel Kullock is doing. We've discussed in the past the issue of 51 Demonstrators and how many out there are actually fakes made by AK but not appropriately marked. Same with his "fantasy" plastics, which I'm sure will show up for sale in 10 years as "rare prototype plastics" made by Parker. I find it interesting that we (rightly) villify what this guy in Korea is doing yet most of our hobby embraces AK and accept that fact that he sits at tables at pen shows selling fake 51s.

Sorry for the slight thread drift, but I had to say it.

[Euro Vintage]

A couple of thoughts on this topic. First, I echo David Nishumura's thoughts from a different thread on this guy, where David noted this guy is clearly skilled and would make a good living creating replicas. All he would need to do is add the marking "replica" such as Chris Thompson did. The pens look great. I don't know if there's a way to get through to this guy, but it would be interesting to see what would happen if he were given some guidance in this direction.

Second, I'm not sure that there's much difference between what this guy's doing and what Ariel Kullock is doing. We've discussed in the past the issue of 51 Demonstrators and how many out there are actually fakes made by AK but not appropriately marked. Same with his "fantasy" plastics, which I'm sure will show up for sale in 10 years as "rare prototype plastics" made by Parker. I find it interesting that we (rightly) villify what this guy in Korea is doing yet most of our hobby embraces AK and accept that fact that he sits at tables at pen shows selling fake 51s.

Sorry for the slight thread drift, but I had to say it.

I am gobsmacked by the quality of feedbacks and comments on this little posting.

Struck a raw nerve ?

My purpose in originating the post is to disperse informed discussion to thoughtful collectors who wish to do research on this guy before forking out their hard earned cash.

Before this posting, a simple Google search on his eBay ID e.g. jeffriad (or yeujeff) pen would yield nothing of substance.

Now, it does - but only to our board posts.

************

Back to your comments: the key difference is this guy advertises his pens as "Made in the USA, 1946" or "1920s" to that effect.

That is pure un-adulterated fraud, IMHO.

Regards

Tri

[Euro Vintage]

A couple of thoughts on this topic. First, I echo David Nishumura's thoughts from a different thread on this guy, where David noted this guy is clearly skilled and would make a good living creating replicas. All he would need to do is add the marking "replica" such as Chris Thompson did. The pens look great. I don't know if there's a way to get through to this guy, but it would be interesting to see what would happen if he were given some guidance in this direction.

Second, I'm not sure that there's much difference between what this guy's doing and what Ariel Kullock is doing. We've discussed in the past the issue of 51 Demonstrators and how many out there are actually fakes made by AK but not appropriately marked. Same with his "fantasy" plastics, which I'm sure will show up for sale in 10 years as "rare prototype plastics" made by Parker. I find it interesting that we (rightly) villify what this guy in Korea is doing yet most of our hobby embraces AK and accept that fact that he sits at tables at pen shows selling fake 51s.

Sorry for the slight thread drift, but I had to say it.

I am gobsmacked by the quality of feedbacks and comments on this little posting.

Struck a raw nerve ?

My purpose in originating the post is to disperse informed discussion to thoughtful collectors who wish to do research on this guy before forking out their hard earned cash.

Before this posting, a simple Google search on his eBay ID e.g. "jeffriad (or yeujeff) pen" would yield nothing of substance.

Now, it does - but only to our board posts.

This perfectly illustrates the educational role of this board.

************

Back to your comments: the key difference is this guy advertises his pens as "Made in the USA, 1946" or "1920s" to that effect.

That is pure un-adulterated fraud, IMHO.

Regards

Tri

[sloegin]

I'm in no way condoning what this guy is doing. Have you contacted him, called the pen a fake, and asked for a refund? I am aware it is outside the paypal/ebay limits of him having to comply.

I cannot foresee him going from fraud to legit, regardless of talent.

[Rockyrod]

All hobbies that have special dates and high prices seem to have this sort of person. One of my old hobbies was coin collecting and I saw more than a few suspect 1909-S VDB pennies up for auction. It got to the point any coin worth more than a few bucks had to come along encased in plastic with a cert to prove it was real. That was when the hobby lost its appel for me, it had become an investment and not just a fun collectable.

Edited by Rockyrod, 12 July 2012 - 02:18 PM.

[Euro Vintage]

I'm in no way condoning what this guy is doing. Have you contacted him, called the pen a fake, and asked for a refund? I am aware it is outside the paypal/ebay limits of him having to comply.

I cannot foresee him going from fraud to legit, regardless of talent.

Done !

PayPal is reviewing the case.

Their stance is always (mostly) pro-consumers so fingers crossed !

However, my posts are not about myself.

It is for those who is doing some research on this guy's background before bidding / paying him.

It is my wish to help them - who are our fellow hobbyists.

Tri

PS: Good luck to you if you want to learn about him on the "other" board

[David Nishimura]

All he would need to do is add the marking "replica" such as Chris Thompson did.

Not so, John. Chris Thompson has just been lucky that Parker isn't very interested in protecting their trademarks. What do you think would happen if he started making copies of rare Montblancs, complete with Montblanc imprints, just with the addition of a "REPLICA" stamp? The problem is using someone else's trademarks without permission, which is the case whenever you imprint something "Parker", "Duofold", etc.

Second, I'm not sure that there's much difference between what this guy's doing and what Ariel Kullock is doing. We've discussed in the past the issue of 51 Demonstrators and how many out there are actually fakes made by AK but not appropriately marked. Same with his "fantasy" plastics, which I'm sure will show up for sale in 10 years as "rare prototype plastics" made by Parker. I find it interesting that we (rightly) villify what this guy in Korea is doing yet most of our hobby embraces AK and accept that fact that he sits at tables at pen shows selling fake 51s.

There is a big difference between making replica parts and not doing everything you can to make sure everyone understands that they are indeed replicas, and selling complete pens that use replica parts and passing them off as entirely original. The former may facilitate fraud, but the latter *is* fraud.