13 replies to this topic

[brando090]

Ive been wanting a Parker 51 Flighter for quite awhile now, and ive just got a few questions about it;

1. I read of the Mark I and III more commonly, but what was the design on the Mark II? Was there a Mark II? I think (not 100% sure) The M1 was with the gold band, the M2 without gold-filled band?, and the M3 was with no gold-filled trim at all?

2. The Flighter is the same as the P51, just has stainless steel?

3. Are they just as reliable as regular P51's?

[david i]

Ive been wanting a Parker 51 Flighter for quite awhile now, and ive just got a few questions about it;

1. I read of the Mark I and III more commonly, but what was the design on the Mark II? Was there a Mark II? I think (not 100% sure) The M1 was with the gold band, the M2 without gold-filled band?, and the M3 was with no gold-filled trim at all?

2. The Flighter is the same as the P51, just has stainless steel?

3. Are they just as reliable as regular P51's?

Hi,

It is a regular 51, so function is as good as any 51.

Note that P51 is not a Parker name for the pen, just serves as collector shorthand. Flgihter is a "51" model (essentially a variant in finish).

For me, the Mark II issue in general has been a bit fuzzy, as some writings I've read treat it as a late-shape pen (similar to Mark III) but still with pearl jewel and with slightly different threads vs Mark III, other writings (location of which I no longer can cite) treating it essentially as a late Mark 1 shaped pen. While I don't hunt "51" as assiduously as Ernesto and have expended less effort mastering the nuances than George, I have handled a hell of a large number of 51's. I've seen and owned only one Marker III Flighter, which sold from the "51 Insanity" December 2008 Vacumania offering.

You will have far easier time finding a typical Mark 1 Flighter.


david

[brando090]

Ive been wanting a Parker 51 Flighter for quite awhile now, and ive just got a few questions about it;

1. I read of the Mark I and III more commonly, but what was the design on the Mark II? Was there a Mark II? I think (not 100% sure) The M1 was with the gold band, the M2 without gold-filled band?, and the M3 was with no gold-filled trim at all?

2. The Flighter is the same as the P51, just has stainless steel?

3. Are they just as reliable as regular P51's?

Hi,

It is a regular 51, so function is as good as any 51.

Note that P51 is not a Parker name for the pen, just serves as collector shorthand. Flgihter is a "51" model (essentially a variant in finish).

For me, the Mark II issue in general has been a bit fuzzy, as some writings I've read treat it as a late-shape pen (similar to Mark III) but still with pearl jewel and with slightly different threads vs Mark III, other writings (location of which I no longer can cite) treating it essentially as a late Mark 1 shaped pen. While I don't hunt "51" as assiduously as Ernesto and have expended less effort mastering the nuances than George, I have handled a hell of a large number of 51's. I've seen and owned only one Marker III Flighter, which sold from the "51 Insanity" December 2008 Vacumania offering.

You will have far easier time finding a typical Mark 1 Flighter.


david

Thank you David,

So the picture attached is the Mark 2? And the Mark 3 is the Fligher which looks more like the Parker 45 but with gold trim? Or is this the Mark 3, and the Mark 2 has the gold trim?

I do prefer the Parker 51 styling to the Mark 1 Flighter, as the other versions dont suppress my appetite enough, though i wouldn't mind the series of them

[david i]

So the picture attached is the Mark 2? And the Mark 3 is the Fligher which looks more like the Parker 45 but with gold trim? Or is this the Mark 3, and the Mark 2 has the gold trim?

Read the note...

-d

[brando090]

So the picture attached is the Mark 2? And the Mark 3 is the Fligher which looks more like the Parker 45 but with gold trim? Or is this the Mark 3, and the Mark 2 has the gold trim?

Read the note...

-d

I think Mk III. So is the Mk II the Flighter with the Parker 45 look as well, but with gold filled trim?

[david i]

I think Mk III. So is the Mk II the Flighter with the Parker 45 look as well, but with gold filled trim?

... read the note...

-d

[brando090]

I think Mk III. So is the Mk II the Flighter with the Parker 45 look as well, but with gold filled trim?

... read the note...

-d

I have...

[david i]

I have...

OK then, so what did I say?

regards

d

[brando090]

I have...

OK then, so what did I say?

regards

d

Mark 3.

[George]

Ive been wanting a Parker 51 Flighter for quite awhile now, and ive just got a few questions about it;

1. I read of the Mark I and III more commonly, but what was the design on the Mark II? Was there a Mark II? I think (not 100% sure) The M1 was with the gold band, the M2 without gold-filled band?, and the M3 was with no gold-filled trim at all?

2. The Flighter is the same as the P51, just has stainless steel?

3. Are they just as reliable as regular P51's?

Hi,

It is a regular 51, so function is as good as any 51.

Note that P51 is not a Parker name for the pen, just serves as collector shorthand. Flgihter is a "51" model (essentially a variant in finish).

For me, the Mark II issue in general has been a bit fuzzy, as some writings I've read treat it as a late-shape pen (similar to Mark III) but still with pearl jewel and with slightly different threads vs Mark III, other writings (location of which I no longer can cite) treating it essentially as a late Mark 1 shaped pen. While I don't hunt "51" as assiduously as Ernesto and have expended less effort mastering the nuances than George, I have handled a hell of a large number of 51's. I've seen and owned only one Marker III Flighter, which sold from the "51 Insanity" December 2008 Vacumania offering.



You will have far easier time finding a typical Mark 1 Flighter.


david

Thank you David,

So the picture attached is the Mark 2? And the Mark 3 is the Fligher which looks more like the Parker 45 but with gold trim? Or is this the Mark 3, and the Mark 2 has the gold trim?

I do prefer the Parker 51 styling to the Mark 1 Flighter, as the other versions dont suppress my appetite enough, though i wouldn't mind the series of them

David's picture is of the "Mark III" flighter.

Regarding your original question, Brandon, finding a regular 51 Flighter with the gold filled band and clip will be much easier than finding a proper mid-1950's flighter without the gold filled band ("Mark II"). The mid 50's "Mark II" flighter is technically the same pen as the "Mark I" but without the gold filled band. The cap used on the "Mark II" 51 flighter is unique to the pen.

The"Mark III" that David posted a picture of is called a 51, but it is a very different pen compared to a conventional late 40's early 50's Aero 51, both technically and aesthetically. The inner cap and clutch mechanism is completely different, and the style differences is obvious.

Regards,
George

Edited by George, 27 September 2012 - 02:11 AM.

[david i]

David's picture is of the "Mark III" flighter.

Regarding your original question, Brandon, finding a regular 51 Flighter with the gold filled band and clip will be much easier than finding a proper mid-1950's flighter without the gold filled band ("Mark II"). The mid 50's "Mark II" flighter is technically the same pen as the "Mark I" but without the gold filled band. The cap used on the "Mark II" 51 flighter is unique to the pen.

The"Mark III" that David posted a picture of is called a 51, but it is a very different pen compared to a conventional late 40's early 50's Aero 51, both technically and aesthetically. The inner cap and clutch mechanism is completely different, and the style differences is obvious.

Regards,
George

George, are you using "Mark II" in a specific context for Flighter evolution or are you describing mid 1950's "51"'s in general as Mark II, thus your description of Mark II Flighter meaning same as "Mark II 51 in Flighter model". I ask as I had considered the general switch from Mark i to Mark II "51" to be a later development.

regards

david

[brando090]

Ive been wanting a Parker 51 Flighter for quite awhile now, and ive just got a few questions about it;

1. I read of the Mark I and III more commonly, but what was the design on the Mark II? Was there a Mark II? I think (not 100% sure) The M1 was with the gold band, the M2 without gold-filled band?, and the M3 was with no gold-filled trim at all?

2. The Flighter is the same as the P51, just has stainless steel?

3. Are they just as reliable as regular P51's?

Hi,

It is a regular 51, so function is as good as any 51.

Note that P51 is not a Parker name for the pen, just serves as collector shorthand. Flgihter is a "51" model (essentially a variant in finish).

For me, the Mark II issue in general has been a bit fuzzy, as some writings I've read treat it as a late-shape pen (similar to Mark III) but still with pearl jewel and with slightly different threads vs Mark III, other writings (location of which I no longer can cite) treating it essentially as a late Mark 1 shaped pen. While I don't hunt "51" as assiduously as Ernesto and have expended less effort mastering the nuances than George, I have handled a hell of a large number of 51's. I've seen and owned only one Marker III Flighter, which sold from the "51 Insanity" December 2008 Vacumania offering.



You will have far easier time finding a typical Mark 1 Flighter.


david

Thank you David,

So the picture attached is the Mark 2? And the Mark 3 is the Fligher which looks more like the Parker 45 but with gold trim? Or is this the Mark 3, and the Mark 2 has the gold trim?

I do prefer the Parker 51 styling to the Mark 1 Flighter, as the other versions dont suppress my appetite enough, though i wouldn't mind the series of them

David's picture is of the "Mark III" flighter.

Regarding your original question, Brandon, finding a regular 51 Flighter with the gold filled band and clip will be much easier than finding a proper mid-1950's flighter without the gold filled band ("Mark II"). The mid 50's "Mark II" flighter is technically the same pen as the "Mark I" but without the gold filled band. The cap used on the "Mark II" 51 flighter is unique to the pen.

The"Mark III" that David posted a picture of is called a 51, but it is a very different pen compared to a conventional late 40's early 50's Aero 51, both technically and aesthetically. The inner cap and clutch mechanism is completely different, and the style differences is obvious.

Regards,
George

Thank you very much, now i know what the differences are. I appreciate both your post's.

[George]

David's picture is of the "Mark III" flighter.

Regarding your original question, Brandon, finding a regular 51 Flighter with the gold filled band and clip will be much easier than finding a proper mid-1950's flighter without the gold filled band ("Mark II"). The mid 50's "Mark II" flighter is technically the same pen as the "Mark I" but without the gold filled band. The cap used on the "Mark II" 51 flighter is unique to the pen.

The"Mark III" that David posted a picture of is called a 51, but it is a very different pen compared to a conventional late 40's early 50's Aero 51, both technically and aesthetically. The inner cap and clutch mechanism is completely different, and the style differences is obvious.

Regards,
George

George, are you using "Mark II" in a specific context for Flighter evolution or are you describing mid 1950's "51"'s in general as Mark II, thus your description of Mark II Flighter meaning same as "Mark II 51 in Flighter model". I ask as I had considered the general switch from Mark i to Mark II "51" to be a later development.

regards

david

David,

I need to clarify. I don't really like the "Mark X" notation for this - maybe Type I, II, III etc would be better for classification.

Mark I (= Type I) : 1949- ~1956/57 Gold Filled clip and cap band.
Mark II (= Type II): Gold filled clip and plain all stainless cap. This style started either in 1956 or 1957 based on instructions found in the boxes of known examples - I don't know exactly when the gold filled band was dropped and replaced with the all stainless configuration, hence the loose term "mid 1950's" for a Mark II.

Regards,
George

[david i]

David,

I need to clarify. I don't really like the "Mark X" notation for this - maybe Type I, II, III etc would be better for classification.

Mark I (= Type I) : 1949- ~1956/57 Gold Filled clip and cap band.
Mark II (= Type II): Gold filled clip and plain all stainless cap. This style started either in 1956 or 1957 based on instructions found in the boxes of known examples - I don't know exactly when the gold filled band was dropped and replaced with the all stainless configuration, hence the loose term "mid 1950's" for a Mark II.

Regards,
George

In this case, you are describing then Type 1 and Type 2 Flighters (or we could say, early and late Mark 1 Flighters).

When do you date the Mark 2 "51" in general? And do you view it (as I tend to) as essentially an early Mark 2 (different jewel and threads) rather than as a late Mark 1