68 replies to this topic

[Rick Krantz]

Brando,

I think a lot of fair and sound and GOOD advice was offered here. I think you should step back, and read it, absorb it, think about it.

It is not your age that puts people off, rather the sorta dishonest approach you have thus far taken in every dealing that you have tried to organize and partake in.

I offer you this....

maybe you need to clean the slate, and try to start over.

Make some apologies, and earn the respect that you so seek.

in time, people will come around.

You are not the first "teenager" to come into the hobby.

I think that the membership "gets it" and in time will be happy to see you being able to offer a reasonable contribution to this hobby of ours, and not trying to swindle and cut deals with other members, and make pens a get rich quick scheme. If you are in this hobby to make money, you chose poorly.

If this sounds good, then great.

And if not, perhaps you should just get out of pens, and try watches or baseball cards or coins.

Best!
Rick

[brando090]

I think i need to meet you guys at a pen show, and you guys can help me along and help me understand something which i may be missing. I know this is different than your message, but ill step back for a while and read and learn.

[Rick Krantz]

I think i need to meet you guys at a pen show, and you guys can help me along and help me understand something which i may be missing. I know this is different than your message, but ill step back for a while and read and learn.

We're worse in person, and much worse in group form.

Then when all that Liquor and cigars hits our systems, we are almost intolerable.

[penpalace]

Also Jerry,

As far as pen shows, when i get a car (~2-3 months, BMW) id really like to go to the Chicago, Ohio, Detroit, and DC shows. Hopefully you guys will welcome me to dinner, please, and wont give me too much of a hard time.

There probably has been no one to pop up on the boards in years to have so earned a hard time. When you start to realize why, you will have at least a hope of moving in new direction. It will be up to you if you want to grow


You have a remarkable lack of perspective regarding our hobby.

You think you can offer Sheaffer Cadets against 1930 Parker Combos, and you plan to attend a pen show in your BMW, but you cannot afford any pen books to start the process of learning about your chosen hobby. You offer pens for sale you don't own. You've been tossed from ebay already and now say you "don't" sell pens on ebay anymore. Why not? Can't? Your account seems active. Of course this is your second ebay account and your first sale on it gave you a negative feedback because you refused to ship the pen you'd sold. You fish for information to hunt imaginary trades and are more than a bit grandiose in assessing items you own. You post "perspectives" that are loose paraphrase (often with errors) from other more knowledgeable writers, yet you don't mention you didn't come up with the notions in ply. You have You really have created your own "hard time".

Selling some of your pens to buy a couple good books would seem to be a good thing for you long term.

Jerry's advice to you is startlingly similar to what others offered you when you first popped up. You show no signs of having absorbed any of that advice during the last few months. Perhaps you'll hear it better, when it is from Jerry.. You have alienated many (perhaps most) of the well known internet pen dealers and advice sharers. A remarkable feat.

Go sell a few pens. Take the appropriate losses on your "deals". Buy Erano's $25 book and the $80 Fischler "Blue Book". Perhaps promise yourself not to buy any pens the next few months. Check out pen profiles at Nishimura's and Binder's websites. Ask questions without second agenda and go at it long enough that people actually believe (correctly or not) that you want to learn, not just manipulate. You might be surprised...

regards

d

SNIP

Sorry i didn't know Parker combo's are scarce, and compared to most of the 3rd tier combo's, Parker combo's fetch a premium. I have owned several pen books, but they were pretty much on the history of the brand, not exactly anything of depth an detail. Obviously, as you should know David Issacson, im only a teenager, so that my hint regarding ebay. Ebay doesn't like young entrepreneurs, i think they like 200 year old entrepreneurs, who knows anymore!

Brando,

Just a note, and this is only my observation, take the time to appreciate the advise that so many people on this board have given you. Get some good books they will be a big help to understanding what is out there, what something might be worth and if what you are buying is "the real deal". Spend some money on the books before you buy more pens, one smart buy from the knowledge you could gain would outweigh the money spent on books rather then pens.

Another point of which I can't stress enough, selling stuff on Ebay is not as easy as it looks. Ebay does favour the buyer and that can be frustrating to any seller, but and I'll say it again BUT it doesn't mean that as a young pen seller one can't be successful. You do however have to be professional, follow Ebay rules, even if they can be silly at times, but in the end your reputation is EVERYTHING. I'm sure many of you remember the "Phillip Benz collection", where he often sold mint condition pens in "prototype colours". Some of the pens the seller sold may have been perfectly fine pens but I wouldn't have been caught dead bidding on any of them given some of his other listings. Taking an example from one of your listings Brando, you had a pen listed for a starting bid price with no reserve and then in the description you wrote if it doesn't sell for X you won't sell it, but X was more then your starting bid price. To say that breaks Ebay rules is one thing but what does that say about you, the pen seller? It may say that he doesn't understand how Ebay works, or it may say that the seller is untrustworthy.

Please note that this comes from one of the younger members on this board, another one of the younger members has already spoken on the general subject. I myself do not have a perfect record as a pen seller but I have worked hard to gain the trust of collectors and dealers all over the world. As I have already stated, selling on Ebay is not easy, but it can be done successfully if done properly.


Pearce.

[brando090]

I thank both Pearce and Rick,

Ill take meeting you guys as it is, and hopefully you guys can slap some pen sense into me, not literally but metaphorically. Ill take a rest, and read on.

[Jerry Adair]

David
My point about the books was that he really must start somewhere. He has little or no knowledge. I agree with you 100% that books alone are not enough, one must get into the fray (as it were) to gain experience. Brando also persists in calling pens 3rd tier. I don't beleive he can define that expression. I just grabbed an All American combo in a stunning Endura green. Brando is that a 3rd tier pen? I traded a really nice Shaeffers green combo for it even up. Did I make a bad deal? If so, then so what? I can think of 10 collectors that will flip over that pen. What about WASPs? Are they 3rd tier? Wearevers? Esterbrooks.
I sent you a picture of several sterling pens one of which was a half overlay it was a Sterling brand pen is that 3rd tier? You once commented to me about some sterling silver overlay as a 3rd tier pen, This is now my 2rd month in this hobby and I can't say that I have ever heard of a 3rd tier pen w/sterling silver overlay.
What is a 3rd tier pen? Please define it for me so I may be enlightend by your wisdom.
Jerry

[JonSzanto]

I'll just throw this out there: there is a copy of Paul Erano's "Fountain Pens: Past and Present" (2nd edition) for sale on the PenTrace board. I got this earlier in the year from Paul, one of his last copies, and for someone like me (relatively new to all this), it added a great dimension to my thinking about collecting, conserving, valuing, and simply appreciating pens. Every time I read it I think of the good fortune of meeting Paul in LA this last Feb.

I would think if someone doesn't have a copy, it would be a good one to snap up (as it is currently out-of-print).

[david i]

David
My point about the books was that he really must start somewhere. He has little or no knowledge. I agree with you 100% that books alone are not enough, one must get into the fray (as it were) to gain experience. Brando also persists in calling pens 3rd tier. I don't beleive he can define that expression. I just grabbed an All American combo in a stunning Endura green. Brando is that a 3rd tier pen? I traded a really nice Shaeffers green combo for it even up. Did I make a bad deal? If so, then so what? I can think of 10 collectors that will flip over that pen. What about WASPs? Are they 3rd tier? Wearevers? Esterbrooks.
I sent you a picture of several sterling pens one of which was a half overlay it was a Sterling brand pen is that 3rd tier? You once commented to me about some sterling silver overlay as a 3rd tier pen, This is now my 2rd month in this hobby and I can't say that I have ever heard of a 3rd tier pen w/sterling silver overlay.
What is a 3rd tier pen? Please define it for me so I may be enlightend by your wisdom.
Jerry

Hi Jerry,

Oh no worries. You and I are on the same page. We are just addressing slightly different mappings of the Gross Dysfunction in play. No doubt core knowledge is an issue. Business Ethics perhaps a larger issue. Pretense Of Knowledge (vs real knowledge or honest lack of knowledge) certainly is an issue. Delusion about "Deals" is an issue.

As an aside, the whole "Tier" thing for me is somewhat context sensitive, offers some subjective moments, and no doubt lends itself to ambiguity, though I suspect our friend lacks the sense of context in any case. I have a pocket lecture (what with being a Doc who does quick subject lectures with Residents frequently) on the topic, which I will toss out one day. At very least, one can parse tiers based on overall brand, vs model within a single series, vs different series within a brand, allowing... just there... three different kinds of tiers... based on context.

I'm sure Brandon is up on all dat...

regards

d

[brando090]

David
My point about the books was that he really must start somewhere. He has little or no knowledge. I agree with you 100% that books alone are not enough, one must get into the fray (as it were) to gain experience. Brando also persists in calling pens 3rd tier. I don't beleive he can define that expression. I just grabbed an All American combo in a stunning Endura green. Brando is that a 3rd tier pen? I traded a really nice Shaeffers green combo for it even up. Did I make a bad deal? If so, then so what? I can think of 10 collectors that will flip over that pen. What about WASPs? Are they 3rd tier? Wearevers? Esterbrooks.
I sent you a picture of several sterling pens one of which was a half overlay it was a Sterling brand pen is that 3rd tier? You once commented to me about some sterling silver overlay as a 3rd tier pen, This is now my 2rd month in this hobby and I can't say that I have ever heard of a 3rd tier pen w/sterling silver overlay.
What is a 3rd tier pen? Please define it for me so I may be enlightend by your wisdom.
Jerry

As you say, i have little or no knowledge. I guess your always right. Also id like to see the picture(s) of the silver pens, but i haven't received anything.