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#1 brando090

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 11:40 PM

I had a friend call me telling me he has what i believe is a Waterman #404. He says it 5.7 inches long, silver, and is striated in lines. He told me it has hallmarks, but i wont be able to buy it until a few weeks given my abrupt new schedule.

#2 FarmBoy

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Posted 10 October 2012 - 12:05 AM


Waterman silver pen... What model?



How about a 404?

#3 brando090

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Posted 10 October 2012 - 02:22 AM



Waterman silver pen... What model?



How about a 404?


Thanks Posted Image

#4 david i

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Posted 10 October 2012 - 02:49 AM

Thanks Posted Image


Todd's comment provided some valuable instruction, Brandon. Perhaps think on it and get to him when you've caught the lesson?

regards

d
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#5 Procyon

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Posted 10 October 2012 - 03:52 AM

I had a friend call me telling me he has what i believe is a Waterman #404. He says it 5.7 inches long, silver, and is striated in lines. He told me it has hallmarks, but i wont be able to buy it until a few weeks given my abrupt new schedule.



Does your abrupt new schedule involve serving a jail term?

Schrödinger's cat walks into a bar.  And doesn't.

 

 

Regards,
Allan


#6 david i

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Posted 10 October 2012 - 04:02 AM


I had a friend call me telling me he has what i believe is a Waterman #404. He says it 5.7 inches long, silver, and is striated in lines. He told me it has hallmarks, but i wont be able to buy it until a few weeks given my abrupt new schedule.



Does your abrupt new schedule involve serving a jail term?


Aw c'mon. That's just mean. ;)

Still, I have my moments too. He does sort of invite it a bit.

I still have hopes for him. Lots of enthusiasm. Just needs to firm up the approach...

regards

d
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#7 Procyon

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Posted 10 October 2012 - 04:20 AM

Yeah, I figured that was a bit harsh after I posted it. Do you actually have hopes for him? Have to say, I don't see it.

Schrödinger's cat walks into a bar.  And doesn't.

 

 

Regards,
Allan


#8 david i

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Posted 10 October 2012 - 04:44 AM

Yeah, I figured that was a bit harsh after I posted it. Do you actually have hopes for him? Have to say, I don't see it.


Well, I don't know that it helps just to analyze someone in front of him. But, yeah. Heck, Luke brought Darth back to the bright side. And, like a freshly converted Vampire, it seems he has not yet tasted blood.

Some are more natural than others, but I believe people can learn things that are not intuitive for them. In pendom, that might start with, "don't try to outsmart those who actually know things", "worry less about 'deals' and enjoy learning about th pens". Hmmm... putting individuals aside, maybe we can make a "pen collecting principles" list, though Paul Erano's pen poster already covers most of it ;)

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#9 Jerry Adair

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Posted 10 October 2012 - 01:19 PM

I thought he said a 404. That is a Waterman model and can be very valuable some have sold in excess of $15,000.. But I must agree with you what is an "abrupt new schedule"? Additionally why even post this comment? Should I post that Mike Krut called me yesterday to ask for some technical advice on a PMDC motor? The post in and of itself was meaningless.
Does anyone actually know if this poster is a teenager?
Jerry

#10 david i

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Posted 10 October 2012 - 03:17 PM

I thought he said a 404. That is a Waterman model and can be very valuable some have sold in excess of $15,000.. But I must agree with you what is an "abrupt new schedule"? Additionally why even post this comment? Should I post that Mike Krut called me yesterday to ask for some technical advice on a PMDC motor? The post in and of itself was meaningless.
Does anyone actually know if this poster is a teenager?
Jerry


A meaningless post?

From Brandon?

A pattern, I fear, not that there isn't potential for better.

Still, this perhaps can be cured. Todd Farmboy did try to make an implicit suggestion

-d
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Email: isaacson@frontiernet.net

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#11 Jerry Adair

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Posted 10 October 2012 - 05:04 PM

I recognize his patterns as well but he did identify the model in his opening post as a Waterman 404 that is a pretty good start, there are a dozen or more patterns but he had not seen the pen so I will excuse him for that. It is just the post doesn;t make any sense to begin with. Some vague reference to a friend with a 404 and an abrupt new schedule. Get the pen or see the pen, then post and describe the pen and its attributes 40 years ago I had an FFL Federal Firearms License and passed on a pair of dueling pistols tha George Washington had owned, certainly not newsworthy or a meanigful post. I passed on them but actually held them just couldn't part with the $10,000 asking price. I had the funds just couldn't pull the trigger, to coin a phrase. My point is he has nothing to report just writing to blather with no substance.
Jerry

#12 david i

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Posted 10 October 2012 - 05:24 PM

I recognize his patterns as well but he did identify the model in his opening post as a Waterman 404 that is a pretty good start, there are a dozen or more patterns but he had not seen the pen so I will excuse him for that. It is just the post doesn;t make any sense to begin with. Some vague reference to a friend with a 404 and an abrupt new schedule. Get the pen or see the pen, then post and describe the pen and its attributes 40 years ago I had an FFL Federal Firearms License and passed on a pair of dueling pistols tha George Washington had owned, certainly not newsworthy or a meanigful post. I passed on them but actually held them just couldn't part with the $10,000 asking price. I had the funds just couldn't pull the trigger, to coin a phrase. My point is he has nothing to report just writing to blather with no substance.
Jerry


Well, not really ;)

As is often the case with his odd posting style, he asked what model is a pen he believes to be a Waterman 404. A somewhat circular and unhelpful post, naturally. His "404" presumably is either a 404 or not a 404, leaving him where he started.

Yes, it is "just that his post doesn't make any sense to begin with". Which Todd tried to point out to him. A not uncommon theme.

But, there is learning to be had in observing all this, though we've had so many episodes that we are hitting redundancy...

I look forward to seeing the picture, probably taken from someone else's website.. No doubt the pen will be a 'deal', he'll break it trying to disassemble it, and then will give it to a seller only of "broken exquisite pens" to sell.

On the other hand, perhaps he will discover that a bit of useful information will let people do a better job of providing useful information.

-d
David R. Isaacson MD. Website: VACUMANIA.com for quality old pens with full warranty.
Email: isaacson@frontiernet.net

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#13 Teej47

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Posted 10 October 2012 - 06:02 PM

I wish I could post questions that garner this much comment (and/or wise-crackery, which I thoroughly enjoy).

Perhaps I should learn to be more vague while implying authoritative knowledge...

Tim
(Being a vague authority kinda sounds fun, actually.)
The only sense that's common is nonsense...

#14 david i

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Posted 10 October 2012 - 06:05 PM

I wish I could post questions that garner this much comment (and/or wise-crackery, which I thoroughly enjoy).

Perhaps I should learn to be more vague while implying authoritative knowledge...

Tim
(Being a vague authority kinda sounds fun, actually.)


We might need to frame that :)

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Email: isaacson@frontiernet.net

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#15 brando090

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 01:37 AM

I wish I could post questions that garner this much comment (and/or wise-crackery, which I thoroughly enjoy).

Perhaps I should learn to be more vague while implying authoritative knowledge...

Tim
(Being a vague authority kinda sounds fun, actually.)


Well, lets trade, as id like to learn and gather new incite on brands, models, etc. I guess pen people in particular dont like to be questioned from an outside the box type context.

The reason for my new schedule, is that i now have 3 jobs, my new job taking a good 30-40 hours from my week, leaving only 1-2 hours during the week for me to email, message,etc. Different days, different hours.

#16 david i

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 01:47 AM


I wish I could post questions that garner this much comment (and/or wise-crackery, which I thoroughly enjoy).

Perhaps I should learn to be more vague while implying authoritative knowledge...

Tim
(Being a vague authority kinda sounds fun, actually.)


Well, lets trade, as id like to learn and gather new incite on brands, models, etc. I guess pen people in particular dont like to be questioned from an outside the box type context.

The reason for my new schedule, is that i now have 3 jobs, my new job taking a good 30-40 hours from my week, leaving only 1-2 hours during the week for me to email, message,etc. Different days, different hours.



Let's be wholly clear. Whatever the rights or imagined wrongs of some of the grief you've received, that grief has naught to do with irritation with questions from 'outside the box'.

Would you care to list the actual reasons? Recall, that it was pointed out to you in all seriousness, that absorbing those reasons would do you great good in the long run, as a pen collector. There have been quite a number of questions asked on the Board today, by people who are no more in or out of "the box" than are you, questions steeped in lack of knowledge about the subject being addressed, questions all of which were fairly cheerfully addressed.

Most of those who asked those questions in an above board manner, without slyness, with appropriate references to that about which they were asking. The questions were asked coherently.

And, for example, none of them tried to sell me a rare pen I already owned, using pictures taken by someone else months before, back when he had sold me that actual pen. Weird world huh.

It's fine if you are feeling crabby about FPB, but you remain welcome here, especially if you don't cross a line into criminality, which is a direction some worry about, based on your actions.

But let's not define the issue as being a problem with questions from "outside the box".

regards

david
David R. Isaacson MD. Website: VACUMANIA.com for quality old pens with full warranty.
Email: isaacson@frontiernet.net

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#17 sloegin

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 01:51 AM

Brandon,

Outside the box is fine I'm fairly certain. Your questions and statements tend to be from another planet, in my opinion.

Is English not your first language? Do you have a mental or learning impediment? Some reason that you should receive compassion instead of what you are currently getting.

Edited by sloegin, 11 October 2012 - 01:52 AM.


#18 brando090

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 01:57 AM



I wish I could post questions that garner this much comment (and/or wise-crackery, which I thoroughly enjoy).

Perhaps I should learn to be more vague while implying authoritative knowledge...

Tim
(Being a vague authority kinda sounds fun, actually.)


Well, lets trade, as id like to learn and gather new incite on brands, models, etc. I guess pen people in particular dont like to be questioned from an outside the box type context.

The reason for my new schedule, is that i now have 3 jobs, my new job taking a good 30-40 hours from my week, leaving only 1-2 hours during the week for me to email, message,etc. Different days, different hours.



Let's be wholly clear. Whatever the rights or imagined wrongs of some of the grief you've received, that grief has naught to do with irritation with questions from 'outside the box'.

Would you care to list the actual reasons? Recall, that it was pointed out to you in all seriousness, that absorbing those reasons would do you great good in the long run, as a pen collector. There have been quite a number of questions asked on the Board today, by people who are no more in or out of "the box" than are you, questions steeped in lack of knowledge about the subject being addressed, questions all of which were fairly cheerfully addressed.

Most of those who asked those questions in an above board manner, without slyness, with appropriate references to that about which they were asking. The questions were asked coherently.

And, for example, none of them tried to sell me a rare pen I already owned, using pictures taken by someone else months before, back when he had sold me that actual pen. Weird world huh.

It's fine if you are feeling crabby about FPB, but you remain welcome here, especially if you don't cross a line into criminality, which is a direction some worry about, based on your actions.

But let's not define the issue as being a problem with questions from "outside the box".

regards

david


It's nice to tell someone if the pen in-particular is a pen that they bought, instead of beating around the bush and abruptly finding out that the pen they have is sold or has been bought. And tell you the truth David, im not 100% sure what you guys are actually trying to make of me, im just trying to ask a question of possibilities, and instead i get bombarded with non-contextual answers. You guys didn't even to bother teaching me if Waterman 14's, 22's, 4's or whatever were possible variants in silver with taper caps.

#19 david i

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 02:10 AM

It's nice to tell someone if the pen in-particular is a pen that they bought, instead of beating around the bush and abruptly finding out that the pen they have is sold or has been bought. And tell you the truth David, im not 100% sure what you guys are actually trying to make of me, im just trying to ask a question of possibilities, and instead i get bombarded with non-contextual answers. You guys didn't even to bother teaching me if Waterman 14's, 22's, 4's or whatever were possible variants in silver with taper caps.


Seriously? Your thesis or world-view is that the obligation of the victim of a con artist is to give the con artist a better time of it by letting con artist know he (the target of the con) is aware of the con? That's to be your "business model" in this hobby? The house burglar complaining to the judge that he wouldn't have been able to rob the house if the owner hadn't left the door unlocked??

I don't think people are trying to make anything of you. Rather, numerous people are pointing out that you... really... are making something... of yourself... in this hobby, and those people are concerned you might not like the outcome of that.

You are asking questions with hedged information or in a form/style that does not allow for reasonable answers.

Let's see, "My friend has a blue car he thinks is a Volvo. Can any of you on this Car Message Board tell me what kind of car it is?"

How many pens did you offer George in potential trade, pens that... you... didn't... own?

I don't recall a question about Waterman 14's and 22's, but I can recommend you start with Richard Binder's profile on Waterman's Numbering System. I gave him some help with that, back before I forgot some of the details I shared.

But, as a fellow who has taken images shared with you and tried to offer the pens in those images for sale to others, people here are somewhat leery of your quests for... images. I believe Rick Krantz tried to convey that to you.'

People certainly can get away with vague questions. People ask questions about pens for sale on ebay without citing the active sales. But, in your case, every question seems coy/sly, with agenda beyond simply learning. Or your questions are so lacking in basic information as to make answering impossible.

My suggestions again:

  • Get your house (so to speak) in order.
  • Do some reading.
  • Think before you ask.
  • Concentrate on formulating a question that has a specific, coherent goal, one that is not hidden.
I don't know what else to say or how often to say it. All this doesn't even touch on "deals", "dealings with pen restorers", "dishonorable ebay dealings" and so forth.


Seriously, what is your goal in this hobby?


regards


d
David R. Isaacson MD. Website: VACUMANIA.com for quality old pens with full warranty.
Email: isaacson@frontiernet.net

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#20 brando090

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 02:30 AM


It's nice to tell someone if the pen in-particular is a pen that they bought, instead of beating around the bush and abruptly finding out that the pen they have is sold or has been bought. And tell you the truth David, im not 100% sure what you guys are actually trying to make of me, im just trying to ask a question of possibilities, and instead i get bombarded with non-contextual answers. You guys didn't even to bother teaching me if Waterman 14's, 22's, 4's or whatever were possible variants in silver with taper caps.


Seriously? Your thesis or world-view is that the obligation of the victim of a con artist is to give the con artist a better time of it by letting con artist know he (the target of the con) is aware of the con? That's to be your "business model" in this hobby? The house burglar complaining to the judge that he wouldn't have been able to rob the house if the owner hadn't left the door unlocked??

I don't think people are trying to make anything of you. Rather, numerous people are pointing out that you... really... are making something... of yourself... in this hobby, and those people are concerned you might not like the outcome of that.

You are asking questions with hedged information or in a form/style that does not allow for reasonable answers.

Let's see, "My friend has a blue car he thinks is a Volvo. Can any of you on this Car Message Board tell me what kind of car it is?"

How many pens did you offer George in potential trade, pens that... you... didn't... own?

I don't recall a question about Waterman 14's and 22's, but I can recommend you start with Richard Binder's profile on Waterman's Numbering System. I gave him some help with that, back before I forgot some of the details I shared.

But, as a fellow who has taken images shared with you and tried to offer the pens in those images for sale to others, people here are somewhat leery of your quests for... images. I believe Rick Krantz tried to convey that to you.'

People certainly can get away with vague questions. People ask questions about pens for sale on ebay without citing the active sales. But, in your case, every question seems coy/sly, with agenda beyond simply learning. Or your questions are so lacking in basic information as to make answering impossible.

My suggestions again:

  • Get your house (so to speak) in order.
  • Do some reading.
  • Think before you ask.
  • Concentrate on formulating a question that has a specific, coherent goal, one that is not hidden.
I don't know what else to say or how often to say it. All this doesn't even touch on "deals", "dealings with pen restorers", "dishonorable ebay dealings" and so forth.


Seriously, what is your goal in this hobby?


regards


d


Thank you!

I love the public resource of the Waterman numbering system, and ill do a little bit more self-teaching using that. Regarding un-authorized sharing of pictures without permission, i dont do very often, and when i do i try my best to remember who the image is from and to ask to use the image. I truly dont want to be known as someone who every image someones shares with me over email, PM, etc; who would be publishing it in a book with no prior acknowledgement to the photographer, as a photographer myself, id hate for that to happen.

My goal in the hobby is to learn what i can about some smaller brands as well as digest as much as i can about Parker and Waterman, not to forget at least have some surface knowledge on Sheaffer, etc. I also want trust to be able to sell something for what it is, and to get over that this pen could be worth this if this is done to it. Obviously we'd all like are items to be worth x, but it just aint always going to happen. I also need to learn more regarding custom pens, and soon enough (car...) ill be driving down to see a pen turner who ive collaborated with over the last year, and ill be meeting in person with him to design a pen and ill be contributing some other aspects to the project, cant share to much.

Id also like to get some basic repairs down, (i think it's the easiest, but still haven't done it)) putting a sac on, fixing pistons, and for sure buffing and polishing a pen. Alot to learn, and i truthfully need someone who will able to take my sarcasm, and smart-alike remarks, though when im doing business, those are few and far between i believe. Someone who can teach me what they've learned over the years, and pass on to someone who will be able to care, cherish, and pass on the lasting memories in which i learned from these experts.




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