90 replies to this topic

[PatMorgan]

Pat,

I must chime in here, as well. That was truly a great, thoughtful post.

Regards,
Allan

thank you

[penpalace]

I have resisted posting to this thread but after re-reading the first post I feel I have to now. Brando, a few of us in multiple threads have tried to tell you nicely to give it a rest for a while. Sit back, read some of the posts, buy some reference books, etc. I do believe you need to do just that, you haven't as of yet but there's still hope.

As for the pen you mentioned and had questions about, it is not owned by a friend, it is a pen on Ebay being sold by a seller in England. I know because at the moment I am high bidder on just such a pen. BE HONEST, if you want to know about a pen post the Ebay link and ask questions about it. People here on the board will take a look at the listing, and for the most part will give you the best information that they can. If you are afraid someone might bid then wait it out, do your bidding and regardless of the outcome ask your questions once the auction is finished so you will have a better idea next time that same pen comes around. I've been buying and selling for years but I still often use collector or dealer websites to get an idea of active prices, preferably those with turnover as you know the pens are actually selling. David I's, David N's, Gary Lehrer's, all great sites worth a long look over. They will really help you to understand what a pen might be worth but pay close attention to the condition of their pens, all top notch and boy does that make a difference in value!

[Rick Krantz]

gosh, I want to comment on so much here, since I took the time to read this entire thread....

George... what do you know about getting into IVY league schools?.... oh yeah, nevermind!

David... good advice, thru the whole thread. I don't know if it is sinking in.

Brando... re read this thread. All 5 pages now...
Also, I hate to say it, unless you are some kind of genius we don't know about, I am doubtful that you are going to get into MIT.

Pat... still a great post. can't say enough...

Okay and with that...

Here's my thoughts...

I almost feel that it is our "duty" (and don't you guys laugh at this....) to take this kid on as a charity case, and turn him around. Seems he indeed got tossed everywhere else, and even tho he still doesn't "get it" , I feel compelled to try to steer him right. It seems to me the underlying problem with him, and still shows, is that he has not seperated himself from the money element (read that profit) of pen collecting. You won't get anywhere in this hobby until you can find a certain love and respect for these writing instruments of the past. As each of us have learned, to appreciate them for their rich history, and design, and beauty, and even their ability to write as a utilitarian object. You can't look at each pen, and try to figure out dollar signs, that doesn't work, and if you can't seperate that, you should really find another hobby. You are in this one for the wrong reasons. I will offer that just as much as the next guy, I want to see young people get in this hobby (I used to be a young person trying to get into this hobby) it is our future, the hobby's future. You can make money or deals on anything, I just offer that if you approach fountain pens like that, being a newbie to the hobby, you will quickly turn off and offend a lot of people, quickly. Many people (and many on this board) have invested great deals of time, and money, in accumulating fantastic collections, and doing research, and trying to put together a history that was not recorded well, or at all. I challenge you, Brando, to find your place in this hobby, make your footprint, understand the hobby, appreciate the pens. don't just try to get into this to turn some quick cash. It doesn't work like that.

Take care!
Rick

[PatMorgan]

gosh, I want to comment on so much here, since I took the time to read this entire thread....

George... what do you know about getting into IVY league schools?.... oh yeah, nevermind!

David... good advice, thru the whole thread. I don't know if it is sinking in.

Brando... re read this thread. All 5 pages now...
Also, I hate to say it, unless you are some kind of genius we don't know about, I am doubtful that you are going to get into MIT.

Pat... still a great post. can't say enough...

Okay and with that...

Here's my thoughts...

I almost feel that it is our "duty" (and don't you guys laugh at this....) to take this kid on as a charity case, and turn him around. Seems he indeed got tossed everywhere else, and even tho he still doesn't "get it" , I feel compelled to try to steer him right. It seems to me the underlying problem with him, and still shows, is that he has not seperated himself from the money element (read that profit) of pen collecting. You won't get anywhere in this hobby until you can find a certain love and respect for these writing instruments of the past. As each of us have learned, to appreciate them for their rich history, and design, and beauty, and even their ability to write as a utilitarian object. You can't look at each pen, and try to figure out dollar signs, that doesn't work, and if you can't seperate that, you should really find another hobby. You are in this one for the wrong reasons. I will offer that just as much as the next guy, I want to see young people get in this hobby (I used to be a young person trying to get into this hobby) it is our future, the hobby's future. You can make money or deals on anything, I just offer that if you approach fountain pens like that, being a newbie to the hobby, you will quickly turn off and offend a lot of people, quickly. Many people (and many on this board) have invested great deals of time, and money, in accumulating fantastic collections, and doing research, and trying to put together a history that was not recorded well, or at all. I challenge you, Brando, to find your place in this hobby, make your footprint, understand the hobby, appreciate the pens. don't just try to get into this to turn some quick cash. It doesn't work like that.

Take care!
Rick

perhaps we should start a new thread on this?

i have been thinking this afternoon into the evening about brandons reply to me.


We have to take care with this. I have witnessed in other venues the fine line being stepped on by some adults involving minors where advice went to anger then to bullying and my personal feeling is that I have to care for me to make sure I do not cross the line. I think your idea of having more openness for the younger and newer collectors is a good idea. What do we do though when we have an individual who has difficulty understanding the lines of ethics? Is it our job though to teach others or lead by example and demonstrate that example. I think I will start a new thread and lets see.

[Rick Krantz]

I think it is in part our responsibility to help shape the hobby, whether it is new members, or even a minor with some ethics issues.

Guess what... that minor with ethics issues turns into an adult with ethics issues, sooner than later, especially in this case.

can you imagine this turned loose on the pen boards, or ebay, or at a show?

I don't think it is a bad thing that we all take some time, with a high degree of patience to try and steer this kid right.

although, in a way, we have been doing this for some time, I think that patience is wearing thin. We all just need some more.

time will tell!

[brando090]

I think it is in part our responsibility to help shape the hobby, whether it is new members, or even a minor with some ethics issues.

Guess what... that minor with ethics issues turns into an adult with ethics issues, sooner than later, especially in this case.

can you imagine this turned loose on the pen boards, or ebay, or at a show?

I don't think it is a bad thing that we all take some time, with a high degree of patience to try and steer this kid right.

although, in a way, we have been doing this for some time, I think that patience is wearing thin. We all just need some more.

time will tell!

Rick and Pat,

I know i shouldn't exactly be posting this, but i believe both are you guys have hit the nail dead on. I have gotten tossed around a bit, and it may seem when i post, it just run on sentences to hear myself speak. I would much appreciate if there would be a way to do a three way conference call between us, and you guys can get to know me and where i stand in the pen community,etc.

[Jim B]

I think it is in part our responsibility to help shape the hobby, whether it is new members, or even a minor with some ethics issues.

Guess what... that minor with ethics issues turns into an adult with ethics issues, sooner than later, especially in this case.

can you imagine this turned loose on the pen boards, or ebay, or at a show?

I don't think it is a bad thing that we all take some time, with a high degree of patience to try and steer this kid right.

although, in a way, we have been doing this for some time, I think that patience is wearing thin. We all just need some more.

time will tell!

It is a noble pursuit to be a teacher of the young, but as such one needs remember that some students just never learn.

It would be an ironic end to this whole episode to turn an amateurish con-kid into a more knowledgeable con-man.

Just not sure who or when the call is made.

[Teej47]

Well said, Rick. David clearly chose the advisors wisely.

Tim

[PatMorgan]

I think it is in part our responsibility to help shape the hobby, whether it is new members, or even a minor with some ethics issues.

Guess what... that minor with ethics issues turns into an adult with ethics issues, sooner than later, especially in this case.

can you imagine this turned loose on the pen boards, or ebay, or at a show?

I don't think it is a bad thing that we all take some time, with a high degree of patience to try and steer this kid right.

although, in a way, we have been doing this for some time, I think that patience is wearing thin. We all just need some more.

time will tell!

Rick and Pat,

I know i shouldn't exactly be posting this, but i believe both are you guys have hit the nail dead on. I have gotten tossed around a bit, and it may seem when i post, it just run on sentences to hear myself speak. I would much appreciate if there would be a way to do a three way conference call between us, and you guys can get to know me and where i stand in the pen community,etc.

Brandon,

Thank you for the offer but I have to respectfully decline. I am setting a boundary and I request that you respect the boundary. I do not wish to speak to you via voice or face to face via skype or any similar programs. I do not wish to receive private communications with you such as email or private messaging with you. The boundary I am setting is public communication in a public forum such as this board or a similar board. I hope you will be mature enough to respect that boundary with me. I will repeat, I only want to communicate with you in public on a forum such as this. Please do not private message me or send me any emails. Thank you so much for your understanding and future respect of this boundary.

Pat Morgan

[Rick Krantz]

I think it is in part our responsibility to help shape the hobby, whether it is new members, or even a minor with some ethics issues.

Guess what... that minor with ethics issues turns into an adult with ethics issues, sooner than later, especially in this case.

can you imagine this turned loose on the pen boards, or ebay, or at a show?

I don't think it is a bad thing that we all take some time, with a high degree of patience to try and steer this kid right.

although, in a way, we have been doing this for some time, I think that patience is wearing thin. We all just need some more.

time will tell!

Rick and Pat,

I know i shouldn't exactly be posting this, but i believe both are you guys have hit the nail dead on. I have gotten tossed around a bit, and it may seem when i post, it just run on sentences to hear myself speak. I would much appreciate if there would be a way to do a three way conference call between us, and you guys can get to know me and where i stand in the pen community,etc.

Brandon,

Thank you for the offer but I have to respectfully decline. I am setting a boundary and I request that you respect the boundary. I do not wish to speak to you via voice or face to face via skype or any similar programs. I do not wish to receive private communications with you such as email or private messaging with you. The boundary I am setting is public communication in a public forum such as this board or a similar board. I hope you will be mature enough to respect that boundary with me. I will repeat, I only want to communicate with you in public on a forum such as this. Please do not private message me or send me any emails. Thank you so much for your understanding and future respect of this boundary.

Pat Morgan

I have to agree with Pat on this. I will be more than glad to converse on this forum, publically, but I really am not interested in developing private relationships via email, phone, or personal messages with someone that is not of adult age. I hate to say it, we are in a climate of supreme caution, and honestly, I got to say, as much as I would like to help, the only help I can offer is in the much public forum. I hope you understand, it is really the climate we live in.

In essence, I think it might be something for David to consider, the ramifications of allowing minors (or anyone under the age of 18) to participate on the board. I think it does create an issue of liability, which many of us have been made aware most recently with many of your prior actions. I do believe I am going to bring this concern to his attention, and consideration. In the end, he is the boss, and I follow his guidelines the best I can. Any decision on this will be placed upon him. I will support them either way. it might be something that was not considered when forming the board, but seems to perhaps deserve some air time now.

take care!
Rick

[david i]

I have to agree with Pat on this. I will be more than glad to converse on this forum, publically, but I really am not interested in developing private relationships via email, phone, or personal messages with someone that is not of adult age. I hate to say it, we are in a climate of supreme caution, and honestly, I got to say, as much as I would like to help, the only help I can offer is in the much public forum. I hope you understand, it is really the climate we live in.

In essence, I think it might be something for David to consider, the ramifications of allowing minors (or anyone under the age of 18) to participate on the board. I think it does create an issue of liability, which many of us have been made aware most recently with many of your prior actions. I do believe I am going to bring this concern to his attention, and consideration. In the end, he is the boss, and I follow his guidelines the best I can. Any decision on this will be placed upon him. I will support them either way. it might be something that was not considered when forming the board, but seems to perhaps deserve some air time now.

take care!
Rick

Hi Rick,

Appreciate the thoughtful post.

But, I don't see this as an "age" thing. Hard to imagine a couple years ago not letting George Rimakis play here, or Gabriel now, d/t age

This is more an individual ethics thing. And, even bad examples have merit as teaching cases. And, as per other notes here, one can but hope people can grow...

regards

d