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Clipless Swan


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#1 kimsdad

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 03:30 AM

Here is an interesting pen pictured with 55 cardinal for scale. It is like new with no use wear. It has an end cap like a Parker Duofold and would appear to take a washer clip. Has anyone seen one of these with the clip? It is made of BHR, Swan is printed on the cap, and it has the white swan on it.
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#2 Hugh

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 09:52 AM

Pretty impressive pen. I can't recall seeing a No.8 Swan nib before. Most of the Swans I've seen are UK so hopefully one of the "locals" will know a bit. For no other reason than "feeling" I doubt it ever had a clip , I also suspect this may be an uncommon pen.....still that's only speculation!!

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#3 kimsdad

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 05:12 PM

Yes, I doubt it ever had a clip as well. That said, why make such an end cap if a clip was never going to be available? Hopefully someone else will have one of these with a clip and post a picture, even a smaller size. Of course, I would be delighted if someone said he just happened to have a clip he would sell.Posted Image Even some advertising would be great.
I have this weird quirk, where I like to see documentation of items in my collection. I have several nifty items, that on the surface appear to be unique, which is unlikely. Probably, has more to do with the fact they are close to a hundred years old and were household items.

#4 Deb

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 06:18 PM

Yes, I doubt it ever had a clip as well. That said, why make such an end cap if a clip was never going to be available? Hopefully someone else will have one of these with a clip and post a picture, even a smaller size. Of course, I would be delighted if someone said he just happened to have a clip he would sell.Posted Image Even some advertising would be great.
I have this weird quirk, where I like to see documentation of items in my collection. I have several nifty items, that on the surface appear to be unique, which is unlikely. Probably, has more to do with the fact they are close to a hundred years old and were household items.

As I said in FPN, clips were supplied as an optional extra by most British companies during the period that your pen was produced, hence the ability to fit a clip if it was required. It may well be that there are examples around that have clips, but bear in mind that this is a decidedly uncommon pen. In many years of concentrating on Swans yours is the first of that model that I've seen. I've never seen a Swan with quite that construction of cap - at any size. I have quite a collection of Swan advertising but nothing quite like your pen appears in any of them. For the moment (until the next one appears) your pen is beyond rare - it's unique!




#5 kimsdad

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 08:17 PM

I hate unique. Guess I should not complain though, it is pretty cool. If it had a clip, I would be tempted to carry it, which would probably be pretty stupid.
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Jim

#6 Hugh

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 08:47 PM

Hi Jim,

Is it a US or UK pen? I've assumed it US but Debs comment about "British" makes me wonder now as she has excellent knowledge of Swan pens.

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Hugh
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#7 kimsdad

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 12:28 AM

Made in England.
Jim

#8 AndyR

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 08:40 AM

That type of cap construction is very typical of Conway Stewart from the mid 1920s onwards. There was much cross-fertilisation going on in the UK market at this time and it may just be that Swan tried out the concept and didn't like it, for whatever reason, so it never made mainstream. In a similar way, CS copied some competitors by using full lever boxes on a few pens around the same time but they never caught on in the CS range either and they patented their own 'locking lever' system in 1925.

From the CS advertising of the time it is clear that the removable cap end / inner cap preceded washer clips, these came as an afterthought. The design appears to have been developed c. 1925 for ease of cleaning and (probably) ease of manufacture, though pens with this feature did carry a price premium, as can be seen from the Dandy range. The 800 and 820 were virtually identical but the 820 had a removable (domed) cap end and it cost a shilling more than the 800, about a 15% increase in price.

More may be revealed when Steve Hull finally gets round to the definitive Swan book in a few years' time!

Andy

#9 Deb

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 09:44 AM

That type of cap construction is very typical of Conway Stewart from the mid 1920s onwards. There was much cross-fertilisation going on in the UK market at this time and it may just be that Swan tried out the concept and didn't like it, for whatever reason, so it never made mainstream. In a similar way, CS copied some competitors by using full lever boxes on a few pens around the same time but they never caught on in the CS range either and they patented their own 'locking lever' system in 1925.





That's an interesting theory that fits the facts. Quite a convincing explanation.






#10 kimsdad

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Posted 19 December 2012 - 01:32 AM

Posted Image


I saw this on Ebay and it looks like it has a similar end cap which may unscrew but has a standard clip. Curious.

Edited by kimsdad, 19 December 2012 - 01:33 AM.


#11 AndyR

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Posted 19 December 2012 - 10:44 AM

If you read my post above explaining how and why the screw on end evolved, you'll see that it is not curious at all - it's very common on British pens of the 1920s. You will also find one piece caps that have been machined to look like two piece caps so it would seem they were definitely one of the markers of a premium product.

Andy

#12 kimsdad

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Posted 19 December 2012 - 03:39 PM

Actually, I posted it to support your post. The curious part was putting a clip on this one and omitting it on mine, but I suppose it goes along with the taste of the times. From your last post, do you think it is a one piece cap?

#13 AndyR

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Posted 19 December 2012 - 04:16 PM

I would say most likely two pieces, because of the way the chasing on the cap goes right to the edge of the knurled part of the end piece and Swan, being one of the top manufacturers of the time, would have had no need to fake the two piece cap. But then again, Swan pens are not my speciality, so I could yet be proved wrong!

Andy




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