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Education on value of an auction lot


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#21 david i

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Posted 02 December 2012 - 07:36 PM

Here then are couple short threads to read


OS Gold Bond Pens



Gold Bond Pen that resembles a pen by another maker


Superb Jade from the Isaacson Collection: Chilton and Gold Bond


Pens made with the Gold Bond Label by at least three different makers. Was Gold Bond then anything more than a label, or a badge?

Or... Gold Bond and Diamond Medal... two peas in a pod.

I really must get around to doing the article...

regards

david
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#22 JonSzanto

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Posted 02 December 2012 - 08:09 PM

Thanks, David. Didn't mean to come off curt, and I always appreciate the information. I'll read the links tonight.

#23 Hugh

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Posted 02 December 2012 - 08:36 PM

Ok, I do give up Mayhaps a separate sub-forum where one can get a somewhat straight-forward answer.

(I'm not trying to be grumpy, but have relative in hospital, work kicking my ass, etc. I'm sure we all have similar stories...)


HI Jon,

Many of the major stores had their own "brand names" and they had pens made with their "brand" stamped on them. In this case it's Sears who "owned" the name. So Gold Bond isn't a stand alone maker, simply re-badged or made to order pens ( this always causes some fun..) and those that made Gold Bond include ( but not limited to) both Wahl and National . Hope all turns out well for your relative.

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Hugh
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#24 J.R.

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Posted 02 December 2012 - 08:37 PM

Hi,

Read through every post in this thread, and all the linked threads, and I HOPE I've managed to piece together this history of the Gold Bond "moniker". (And I could still be muddled - wouldn't be the first time). I'd like to know, 'cause I'm waiting for my first Gold Bond to arrive in the mail.


So, the end result of all the conversation is: Gold Bond pens were made by, National Pen Products, Wahl, Waterman, and Chilton ? Is this correct ? And then, I have to ask - were all these pens sold exclusively by Montgomery Ward ? Or did some of the manufacturers sell them at retail, or to jobbers/wholesalers, who then sold the pens to whomever would buy them ? One more, and I'll hush... The pen I'm waiting on carries the "Stonite" marking - does that have any significance, re., manufacturer/retailer/time frame ?


Lotta questions, I know... but I'm not the brightest bulb in the box.


Thanks,

J.R.

#25 JonSzanto

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Posted 02 December 2012 - 10:03 PM

Many of the major stores had their own "brand names" and they had pens made with their "brand" stamped on them. In this case it's Sears who "owned" the name. So Gold Bond isn't a stand alone maker, simply re-badged or made to order pens ( this always causes some fun..) and those that made Gold Bond include ( but not limited to) both Wahl and National . Hope all turns out well for your relative.

Hugh, many thanks for both the info and the well-wishes. Those couple of sentences really crystallized the underlying issues, and reminded me of the multiple manufacturer / "house brand" situation.

Again, thank you.

#26 david i

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Posted 02 December 2012 - 10:37 PM

HI Jon,

Many of the major stores had their own "brand names" and they had pens made with their "brand" stamped on them. In this case it's Sears who "owned" the name. So Gold Bond isn't a stand alone maker, simply re-badged or made to order pens ( this always causes some fun..) and those that made Gold Bond include ( but not limited to) both Wahl and National . Hope all turns out well for your relative.

Regards
Hugh


Hi Guys,

Note that Gold Bond was not Sears.

regards

-d
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Email: isaacson@frontiernet.net

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#27 JonSzanto

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Posted 02 December 2012 - 10:41 PM

IIRC, it was Montgomery Ward, right?

#28 david i

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 12:13 AM

IIRC, it was Montgomery Ward, right?


We are getting down to the brass tacks ;)

Some core elements of this thread-- from my perspective-- have been the history of 1930's pens and our approach to learning about old pens, not to mention a bit of learning about the study of collectable pendom itself, the process by which information historically managed to come to light and gain clarity.

A great deal of the information regarding rebadged pens had been observational. With the Parker-Sears connection, we have been blessed (though not all at once, and with most still not available to most members of our hobby) with Sears cartalogues illustrating the Diamond Medal (Parker) pens and showing linkage in appearance and in ad text to Parker pens and literature, respectively. What now often is taken as casual info to collectors was fairly hard fought info for most who know a great deal on the topic.

Gold Bond indeed appears to be a brand owned/sold by the Monkey Ward. I would not be surprised if there are MW catalogues out there showing pens, but I have not yet hunted them.

GB pens appear to have been made at least by National, Wahl-Eversharp and, yes, LE Waterman. There are a couple out there I suspect have a Sheaffer tie, though I'm far from convinced yet. The WE pens tend to be Dorics, though some low line pens (such as another one that just closed on ebay) seem based on pretty crappy mid-late 1930's Wahl Oxfords. The brown pen with red veins earlier in this thread, which comes with Montgomery ward paper in the box, is a re-badged mid-late 1930's Waterman 32a, possibly a Thoroughbred, a related pen. Note the Waterman clip, the Waterman lever. It even has "32A" still on butt. But, the clip is not marked "Waterman", as Waterman-branded Watermen (eep!) would be. I have couple Gold Bond (Waterman) Lady Patricia style pens and perhaps the World's Largest Collection of what are some of the most beautiful 1930's pens labelled GB but still not of certain source (maybe WE). That World's Largest Collection numbers about... 4 pens. Topic for another day, that cluster is.

National made all sorts of differently badged pens, so many that I wonder if ANY National pens were sold directly by the maker. Could all those Gold Bond, Gold Medal, Diamond Medal, Lincoln, Lakeside (?) and others have each been for a specific customers (stores/chains) only some of them now known to us? Maybe.

Stonite, at my best guess appears to have been National/GB's proprietary label (for advert purposes) equivalent to Radite and Permanite, if you get my drift. But, it was used a bit more as a series name than those other though ... perhaps. Not my strong point.

When one looks at small label old pens and they bear startling resemblance to big name pens, one should wonder about re-badging or about sub-brands as much as about design/patent infringements ;)

I well recall, back around 2001, wondering... how Diamond Medal "got away with stealing Parker's filling system".

Re-badged and sub-brand pens remain an area of pendom which-- even after 35 years of our hobby's formal existence-- bears further research.

regards

d
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Email: isaacson@frontiernet.net

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#29 David Nishimura

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 03:28 AM

Don't believe I've ever seen a Chilton-made Gold Bond.

It is funny how so many collectors assumed for so long that the rebadged Parkers, Watermans, and Wahls were instead small-brand clones. Can't complain too much, though, as it gave me a huge head start in buying them up cheap.


Edited by David Nishimura, 04 December 2012 - 03:36 AM.


#30 david i

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 04:06 AM

Don't believe I've ever seen a Chilton-made Gold Bond.

It is funny how so many collectors assumed for so long that the rebadged Parkers, Watermans, and Wahls were instead small-brand clones. Can't complain too much, though, as it gave me a huge head start in buying them up cheap.



The Jade Gold Bond pen in one of my links was shown next to a Jade pen by (and marked as) Chilton. The Chilton was incidental, as the photo was about Jade, not about rebadges ;)

I did pick up rather a monster of a rebadge at Ohio. Maybe after the Gang of Five finishes dividing The Collection purchased at Ohio (everyone flies into NYC tomorrow for that), I will be able to post the fresh Diamond Medal.

regards

david
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#31 Hugh

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 09:23 AM

National made all sorts of differently badged pens, so many that I wonder if ANY National pens were sold directly by the maker. Could all those Gold Bond, Gold Medal, Diamond Medal, Lincoln, Lakeside (?) and others have each been for a specific customers (stores/chains) only some of them now known to us? Maybe.


Of course National made pens under their own name

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I feel that's probably good enough to say they did market their own pens under at least the National name at some point. Gold Crown is another name found on National products , for who (?) I don't know and the one above is only identified by the clip ( no barrel imprint, nib marking) which seems to indicate a more "generic" name than as say a Sears only one ( speculation of course). The one above is the same plastic used by Conklin, likewise the Conklin sapphire blue is oft seen in Lincoln pens along with Conklin type feeds....enough so to make me wonder whether , in fact, some are rebadged Conklins. No doubt all those "names" could have been for specific customers and likewise some could have been used simply because they sounded a lot better than "National" or as marketing ploy. Interesting anyway !!

Regards
Hugh
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