44 replies to this topic

[david i]

We've had fair amount of chat about 1940's Sheaffers. I do have a nice cache of magazine ads from this period, but... I have never gone through them. One day (not too long from now, I hope) I shall do so. No doubt useful info can be mined regarding the pens. The 1947 Workbook has been most helpful already.

But, I stumbled across couple 1946-ish adverts on ebay and grabbed images.

Collectors tend to call the conical nib introduced with the new 1942+ pens, the "Triumph nib". As has been noted before, the pen, Triumph, seemingly did NOT get its name from the new "Triumph nib"; rather the new conical nib takes its collector name from the Triumph pen (the new 1942) pen, which featured that nib. Off hand I do not know if Sheaffer eventually started calling the nib a "Triumph" nib, but might have.

Another challenge for collectors is the apparant lack of an overarching series name for generally similar pens of the War years, the post War years or both. Parker had its Vacumatic and before that Duofold, involving many models and variants, but all part of given series. Sheaffer had Balance during the 1930's, with wide range of models and variants, but all still Balance.

Sheaffer's 1940's are more problematic. The War years saw few models, Triumph, Crest, Crest Masterpiece, etc, but these structurally similar pens seem not to be part of a given series. Post-War 1940's pens are more challenging still, as the model range blossomed, to include again pens with typical open nib, featuring frantic evolution.

So, these ads caught my eye.

The first shown just below dates to 1946 or so. Some nice findings. The ad shows the Sheaffer Sentinel (and matching Tucky), pens with brushed chrome cap on plastic barrel. The ad emphasizes that these are Triumph, showing a couple models within the Triumph group. Should we consider then the 1945+ pens with conical nib to be the Triumph Family? I dunno.

Too the ad mentions sets at $3.95 and up. I know of no Triumph-nib set that inexpensive and assume it references the least expensive of the (open nib) bead-band pens. Unfortunately, the ad does not quite specify if these pens are excluded from the Triumph cluster. Could it be that the 1946 "Triumph" pens need not have a "Triumph" nib?

Also interesting is the "post-war models at pre-war levels"; the $12.50 for Sentinel matching the price of the thinner all-plastic original 1942-5 Triumph pen.

Finally, the pen shown reflects the price noted for the smaller steel-cap Sentinel rather than what I of late have come to believe is the slightly later Triumph Deluxe at $15. Sentinel actually was a smaller pen than the all-plastic post-War Valiant. It was only with the temporally serial size bump to Sentinel Deluxe that the metal-cap pen became a size-match to Valiant.

So much in one wee ad...

The next add, also I'm guessing late 1945 or so, shows a member of the "Triumph" cluster, this one of course a Valiant "Triumph" (there being, i note, no non-Triumph Valiant at this point, so... why emphasize "Triumph", if not to link Valiant to a series). Too, the conical nib is shown, perhaps four years after its introduction, and still is not called by Sheaffer a "Triumph Nib".

The ad emphasizes "Triumph pens and Fineline pencils", yet mentions, again, "other sets $3.95 and up", without mentioning they are Sheaffer "non-Triumph" pens at that price. This ambiguity does not give hard direction, but leaves open that Sheaffer considered all its pens to be Triumph at this point, some of which have the Lifetime point, others perhaps not. The other interpretation (favoring a common view now that anything Triumph must have the conical nib) being that the advert is for a Triumph pen and that Sheaffer's other pens (not necessarily "Triumph") start at the cheaper price.

The ad...

Food fer thought.

regards

David

[Gerry Berg]

Collectors tend to call the conical nib introduced with the new 1942+ pens, the "Triumph nib". As has been noted before, the pen, Triumph, seemingly did NOT get its name from the new "Triumph nib", rather the new conical nib takes its collector name from the Triumph pen (the new 1942) pen, which featured that nib. Off hand I do not know if Sheaffer eventually started calling the nib a "Triumph" nib, but might have.
regards
David

In Circular No.F67 dated January 1942, Sheaffer called the new conical nib on its Triumph pen a "Feathertouch Sheath-Point" with a "Flo-rite feed". A central selling point was that this new pen could "pass through a wide range of temperatures and altitudes owing to the feed's "capillary comb cuts", making it "ideal for men in the service".

Gerry

[Gerry Berg]

Another challenge for collectors is the apparant lack of an overarching series name for generally similar pens of the War years, [snip]

The War years saw few models, Triumph, Crest, Crest Masterpiece, etc, but these structurally similar pens seem not to be part of a given series.
regards
David

Don't leave out the War years' series of "military clip" pens: Valiant (#74: price code 1000), Vigilant (#73: price code 875), Defender (#5: pricecode 500), and Commander/Commandant (#3: price code 400/350).

Gerry

[david i]

Don't leave out the War years' series of "military clip" pens: Valiant (#74: price code 1000), Vigilant (#73: price code 875), Defender (#5: pricecode 500), and Commander/Commandant (#3: price code 400/350).

Gerry

I'd not considered those to have persisted through WWII. I am amenable to correction on that.

When did those pens cease production?

d

[Gerry Berg]

I just assumed they were war time pens because they were made to wear with uniforms, and there were certainly a lot of uniform pockets to fill through 1945! I don't really know when they stopped making them.

Gerry

[david i]

I just assumed they were war time pens because they were made to wear with uniforms, and there were certainly a lot of uniform pockets to fill through 1945! I don't really know when they stopped making them.

Gerry

My recollection is they are shown in the 1941 catalogue. I don't insist. But, I recall no ads much later. I'm not at all sure they were manufactured during the war years. Too, I am not at all sure they weren't

I'd hate to assume it though. Anyone with any info?

-d

[matt]

My recollection is they are shown in the 1941 catalogue. I don't insist. But, I recall no ads much later. I'm not at all sure they were manufactured during the war years. Too, I am not at all sure they weren't

I'd hate to assume it though. Anyone with any info?

-d

At least part way into the war. Here's a Nov 24, 1942, Life ad, the lastest I've found for the Vigilant.

http://books.google....igilant&f=false

[matt]

David,

July 27, 1942 Life, two page ad. I'd say the line is the "Triumph" Lifetime with a Sheath Point nib. Note "Original development of the "Triumph" Lifetime began four years ago." The small pen is the Tuckaway, the full size pen is the Standard (you have to hunt for the name), and the gold fill cap is the Crest and Crest Tuckaway.

http://books.google....triumph&f=false

In the May 22, 1944, Life ad, it's still a "Sheath point." But on July 22, 1944, we now have the "Triumph" Dual-Purpose pen point and the "Triumph" point; however, the fine print still reads "Triumph Lifetime pen. So now both the line and nib are Triumph.

http://books.google....triumph&f=false

Or maybe not. Both the Nov and Dec 1944 Boy's Life ads still refer to a "cylindrically-shaped Sheath Point".... So, maybe the above ad is referring to the point (nib) on the Triumph, not a Triumph point (nib). There are plenty of ads referring to a Lifetime* point and picturing the conical nib, but haven't found any that actually say it's the "Triumph point/nib."

In Nov 1945, we have "Streamlined balance" "new 'Triumph' writing intruments" and new model names.

http://books.google....triumph&f=false

By Sep 1946 the pen is also kopasetic and still a "new 'Triumph'"

http://books.google....triumph&f=false

[Richard]

Collectors tend to call the conical nib introduced with the new 1942+ pens, the "Triumph nib". As has been noted before, the pen, Triumph, seemingly did NOT get its name from the new "Triumph nib"; rather the new conical nib takes its collector name from the Triumph pen (the new 1942) pen, which featured that nib. Off hand I do not know if Sheaffer eventually started calling the nib a "Triumph" nib, but might have.

Doggonnit, man, I just went through this. Here is a fragment of a 1944 ad unequivocally proving that Sheaffer called the nib a Triumph nib-- or, as it's printed in the ad, a "TRIUMPH" point.



Don't make ms put this image up again. It could get ugly.

[david i]

Doggonnit, man, I just went through this. Here is a fragment of a 1944 ad unequivocally proving that Sheaffer called the nib a Triumph nib-- or, as it's printed in the ad, a "TRIUMPH" point.

Don't make ms put this image up again. It could get ugly.

Everything about the 1940's Sheaffers, except maybe the pens themselves, already is ugly. So, welcome to that realization, dude

Your ad does show quite solidly that by 1944 Sheaffer was calling the tip a Triumph point/nib, but does not appear in conflict with the notion that the point did not start out as the "Triumph" element, which was the 1942 pen. It is good to know how early Sheaffer began to map the name of the pen onto the point that came with that pen.

I likely have 20-30 ads from Sheaffer in the 1940's. One day I might even look at them. If only I had some time...

-d

[Kirchh]

My recollection is they are shown in the 1941 catalogue. I don't insist. But, I recall no ads much later. I'm not at all sure they were manufactured during the war years. Too, I am not at all sure they weren't

I'd hate to assume it though. Anyone with any info?

-d

Given the relative number of pens found with vermeil trim, I'd say they made quite a lot of them during the war.

--Daniel

[Kirchh]

"TRIUMPH" was at first the name of the pen line; eventually, it became synonymous with the sheath-point nib, though it's difficult to ascertain exactly when, as references in ads to the "'TRIUMPH' point" may mean "the point that's on the 'TRIUMPH' pen." A rough parallel may be drawn with the name of Parker's squeeze-bar filler for the "51"; though it eventually came to be called the Aerometric filler, it had a different name at first, and "Aero-metric" referred to the various features that metered ink properly even when used on an, um, aeroplane.

At least in some materials, the entire line of post-war pens, both sheath-point and flat nibbed, were at least listed under the general title of New Triumph pens, but it's not clear how strongly Sheaffer pushed this labeling. But note also that the pencils that matched pens with sheath-point nibs were Triumph pencils, of course...except they also matched some pens with flat nibs. I wonder if even Sheaffer got a headache from all this. So I wouldn't suggest using Triumph as a name for the whole line of post 3/1/1945 pre-whatever models. I think we're stuck with "post-war celluloid", or "post-war pre-Touchdown", or "post-war pre-Snorkel". Clunky, but fairly clear. And, to be accurate, the first generation of these wasn't totally post-war, as the war was still going on.

Generally true that "Balance" covers the '30s models, but note that the 1937 model 47, aka Crest, starts to violate that, and it serves as a stepwise bridge into the next generation of designs, as it takes on a sheath point around 1942 and becomes firmly a member of the "TRIUMPH" line proper, though the capped external appearance is little changed.

Certainly true that no sheath-point pens could be had in sets for $3.95. but always overlooked is that neither could any models of post-war introduction. In fact, the reference is to Balance Junior ensembles, which apparently continued to be available through at least 1946, though they do not seem to be specifically listed in any enumerations of available models. I will note that it's highly unlikely that Sheaffer considered Balance Junior items to be part of the "TRIUMPH" family, from which it follows that other models may also not fall under that umbrella, such as all open-nibbed pens. The $3.95 price-point sets are likely the short-lived Cadet II, a mid-length bead-band pen with 23 nib and chrome trim, and the shorter Minerva II, that seem to be the post-war successors to the Balance Junior models [edited to reflect more thorough review of my notes for the period].

Brushed-cap Sentinel (non-Deluxe, $12.50) is shown in 12/46 ad, but Sentinel Deluxe ($15.00) also appears in '46 ads (no more specific dates available at the moment) as well as alongside Sentinel (non-Deluxe) in 12/46 parts lists. Polished cap Sentinel and Sentinel Deluxe both appear together in some materials (as do Crest and Crest Deluxe).

See? Post-war Sheaffers are simple. Ish.

--Daniel

[Kirchh]

Don't leave out the War years' series of "military clip" pens: Valiant (#74: price code 1000), Vigilant (#73: price code 875), Defender (#5: pricecode 500), and Commander/Commandant (#3: price code 400/350).

Gerry

Interested in citations for the "Commander" military-clipped pen at a $3.50 price point. Also, to clarify for those who are not so familiar with Sheaffer designations: the numbers given above (e.g. "73") are not model symbols for the pens listed.

--Daniel

[matt]

snipped "TRIUMPH" was at first the name of the pen line; eventually, it became synonymous with the sheath-point nib, though it's difficult to ascertain exactly when, as references in ads to the "'TRIUMPH' point" may mean "the point that's on the 'TRIUMPH' pen."

The $3.95 price-point sets are likely the short-lived Cadet II, a mid-length bead-band pen with 23 nib and chrome trim, and the shorter Minerva II, that seem to be the post-war successors to the Balance Junior models [edited to reflect more thorough review of my notes for the period].

See? Post-war Sheaffers are simple. Ish.

That's the point I was clumsily trying to make above. The "Triumph" point language only appeared for a short time. "Sheath Point" shows up a more frequently, but more often there's just a picture of the nib labled "Lifetime." Also, Sheaffer's ad people must not have taken high school geometry - the two 1944 Boy's Life ads noted above describe it as a "cylindrically-shaped Sheath Point." Sure looks like a cone to me! The tubular 51 nib is closer to a cylinder.

The Cadet II pen has a 275 price code and chrome trim pencils are 250 (I have carmine, green, and grey), or $5.25 purchased separately. (Side note: the gold trim bead band pencils are price coded 300. Gold trim and chrome trim pencils all seem to have self adjusting clips (Craftsman and Cadet pen clips are solid mounted). So, above the Cadet line, you saved less money buying a grey set than the other colors.)

Yeah, simple. Ish.

Matt

[david i]

SNIP

At least in some materials, the entire line of post-war pens, both sheath-point and flat nibbed, were at least listed under the general title of New Triumph pens, but it's not clear how strongly Sheaffer pushed this labeling. But note also that the pencils that matched pens with sheath-point nibs were Triumph pencils, of course...except they also matched some pens with flat nibs. I wonder if even Sheaffer got a headache from all this. (emph added)

Which was a key observation I started with from the ads at start of this thread.

Adverts, clearly, need not be canon, though they presumably represent at least words from Sheaffer. The questions remains whether adverts reflected firm internal views vs quick n' dirty lumpage ™, and whether Sheaffer had reached a point where truly it lacked a rational internal system to categorize its own product. Headache might not be limited to those outside the company.

So I wouldn't suggest using Triumph as a name for the whole line of post 3/1/1945 pre-whatever models. I think we're stuck with "post-war celluloid", or "post-war pre-Touchdown", or "post-war pre-Snorkel". Clunky, but fairly clear. And, to be accurate, the first generation of these wasn't totally post-war, as the war was still going on.

I don't disagree, though the possibility remains that Sheaffer did use Triumph for its whole line, even if the term had not started that way.

Too, we might need to tweak your three term schema to be specific:

• post-war celluloid
• post-war pre-touchdown injection-molded plastic
• post-war (pre-TM) Touchdown

That at least covers the post war 1940's.

Generally true that "Balance" covers the '30s models, but note that the 1937 model 47, aka Crest, starts to violate that, and it serves as a stepwise bridge into the next generation of designs, as it takes on a sheath point around 1942 and becomes firmly a member of the "TRIUMPH" line proper, though the capped external appearance is little changed.

Yes, pen evolution does not respect crisp decadal borders. Still, while Balance and original Crest made it into the 1940's, and while original Tucky was intro'd 1940 (the last year of the 1930's), those can be viewed as holdovers.

Certainly true that no sheath-point pens could be had in sets for $3.95. but always overlooked is that neither could any models of post-war introduction. In fact, the reference is to Balance Junior ensembles, which apparently continued to be available through at least 1946, though they do not seem to be specifically listed in any enumerations of available models. I will note that it's highly unlikely that Sheaffer considered Balance Junior items to be part of the "TRIUMPH" family, from which it follows that other models may also not fall under that umbrella, such as all open-nibbed pens. The $3.95 price-point sets are likely the short-lived Cadet II, a mid-length bead-band pen with 23 nib and chrome trim, and the shorter Minerva II, that seem to be the post-war successors to the Balance Junior models [edited to reflect more thorough review of my notes for the period].

My headache likely would have returned if I had to deal with a true Balance-derived pen persisting to 1945

Brushed-cap Sentinel (non-Deluxe, $12.50) is shown in 12/46 ad, but Sentinel Deluxe ($15.00) also appears in '46 ads (no more specific dates available at the moment) as well as alongside Sentinel (non-Deluxe) in 12/46 parts lists. Polished cap Sentinel and Sentinel Deluxe both appear together in some materials (as do Crest and Crest Deluxe).

See? Post-war Sheaffers are simple. Ish.

--Daniel

Parts lists I would take with grain of salt, as parts lists sometimes cite models already discontinued. Overlapping ads offer stronger support.

-d

[Kirchh]

That's the point I was clumsily trying to make above. The "Triumph" point language only appeared for a short time. "Sheath Point" shows up a more frequently, but more often there's just a picture of the nib labled "Lifetime." Also, Sheaffer's ad people must not have taken high school geometry - the two 1944 Boy's Life ads noted above describe it as a "cylindrically-shaped Sheat Point." Sure looks like a cone to me! The tubular 51 nib is closer to a cylinder.

The Cadet II pen has a 275 price code and chrome trim pencils are 250 (I have carmine, green, and grey), or $5.25 purchased separately. (Side note: the gold trim bead band pencils are price coded 300. Gold trim and chrome trim pencils all seem to have self adjusting clips (Craftsman and Cadet pen clips are solid mounted). So, above the Cadet line, you saved less money buying a grey set than the other colors.)

Yeah, simple. Ish.

Matt

I suspect that the $3.95 Cadet sets do not include the $2.50 pencil (H1), but rather the Utility pencil (E1), which is a flat-topped top-eraser item priced at $1.50. The pencil that matches the Minerva listed at $2.00, but that may still have allowed a set discount down to $3.95, as the per-item pricing matches the pre-war Junior items that went in sets for $3.95. But I do not yet have hard evidence regarding the composition and pricing of these sets.

--Daniel

[david i]

Interested in citations for the "Commander" military-clipped pen at a $3.50 price point. Also, to clarify for those who are not so familiar with Sheaffer designations: the numbers given above (e.g. "73") are not model symbols for the pens listed.

--Daniel

Suspect this post fails to add clarity to those unfamiliar with Sheaffer designations.

Care to detail what those numbers-- assuming they were pulled from some Sheaffer paper showing some affiliation with said pens-- actually indicate?

Nibs? Colors? Drawer they were stored in at Ft. Madison? Estimated number of years the pens would survive?


-d

[Kirchh]

Parts lists I would take with grain of salt, as parts lists sometimes cite models already discontinued. Overlapping ads offer stronger support.

-d

I am not citing parts list as self-contained evidence of simultanteous offering or production, only of existence as of the date of the parts list.

--Daniel

[Kirchh]

Suspect this post fails to ad clarity to those unfamiliar with Sheaffer designations?

Care to detail what those numbers-- assuming they were pulled from some Sheaffer paper showing some affiliation with said pens-- indicate?

Nibs? Colors? Drawer they were stored in at Ft. Madison? Estimated number of years the pens would survive?
-d

I will also be interested to hear what those numbers were intended to indicate in Gerry's post.

--Daniel

[david i]

david i, on 28 September 2010 - 12:10 PM, said:

Suspect this post fails to ad clarity to those unfamiliar with Sheaffer designations?

Care to detail what those numbers-- assuming they were pulled from some Sheaffer paper showing some affiliation with said pens-- indicate?

Nibs? Colors? Drawer they were stored in at Ft. Madison? Estimated number of years the pens would survive?
-d

I will also be interested to hear what those numbers were intended to indicate in Gerry's post.

--Daniel

Well, if you've never heard of those numbers, then I too would be interested in Gerry's view, so that we can proceed.

However, if you have heard of these codes and simply disagree with Gerry's usage of them, then rather than wait for him to toss out a view with which you've already offered disagreement-- and given that you already made the claim to offer clarity that remains incomplete-- then there appears to be little need to await other postings prior to your completing your claimed clarification.

... like pulling teeth...

d