40 replies to this topic

[Deb]

The thread's still there on FPN as of 14.42 GMT today, with the latest addition made around half an hour ago.

[George]

This thread on FPN is most certainly locked.

http://www.fountainp...e-been-defamed/

[Jim B]

I would note the following having set at least a couple hundred Vac nib/feeds into their sections:

1) often Vac nibs need to be set in much further than one would think based on visuals. Seems inner cap lips were done to shallow tolerances.

2) specific inner cap tool needed to check.

3) even using Parkers famous "block" tool doesn't insure all Vac nibs have been set deep enough.

4) IMHO, damage certainly a result of improper setting of the nib/feed depth.

[Hugh]

Having been given the repairers name ( whom I consider a "pen friend" and whom I've sought and received advice/info from ) I'm at a loss for words. His workmanship, oft displayed here, is of high quality to say the least yet to me this is an error on his part and accepting that should be part of the course. I'm even more surprised now that he didn't simply ask the pen returned and fix it regardless of fault needing to be proven. To me ,at this point, a very disappointing event .

Regards
Hugh

[George]

Opus,

Any updates on the improperly-set-nib-debacle?

Regards,
George

[opus7600]

Any updates on the improperly-set-nib-debacle?

I think I've accomplished what I set out to do. I have gotten reasonably broad agreement that the damage appears to have occurred as I described. Hopefully that will start to clear my name with the (still unknown) list of repairers who received this email.

I am not yet sure how to begin to clear my name with everyone else who I annoyed with this thread. Guess that's a project for a different day.

I have had some interesting conversations back-channel, some general words of wisdom, some discussing similar experiences. I made some interesting new connections, so that's good.

The pen itself is now off to a different professional who thinks he can get the nib working again. I'm not yet sure if I'll *want* to use the pen. It has some emotional baggage attached.

I have heard nothing from the original technician, neither to continue telling his side nor to admit he was in error. Honestly, I never expected to.

[Jerry Adair]

Emotional baggage? It's a pen
Jerry

[opus7600]

Emotional baggage? It's a pen

I can certainly understand, and envy, that you've never had a pen make you sad.

But have you never felt *any* emotion regarding a pen? Not a single pen has ever made you just a little happier each time you ink it or pick it up to write with it? No pen, upon seeing it in pictures or in person, has made you breathe in awe? That makes me feel just a bit sorry for you. I hope someday you find a pen that makes you happy. I have one or two in my collection. Clearly this pen isn't in that set.

[Rick Krantz]

perhaps you and the repair person could split the repair costs? he assumes responsibilty for one tine, and you assume responsibility for the other?

Here is my assessment of the issue....

pen came back, worked, etc...

cap was loose...

RIGHT HERE... you should have contacted the repair person.

if you had a repair done and something is not right, STOP.

whereas, the repair person might not have set the nib properly, minimally, you should allow them opportunity to fix the issue.

Tightening the cap, where it has resistance, in general is a bad practice.

If I were the pen repair person, I would try to come to a compromise, and that would be (at least in my mind) to fix the pen, half price. (customer goodwill)

The nib issues to me, looks like it was caused by a clearance issue, but somewhere, I would want to measure the pen, and depth, and nib setting before i make that assessment.

I don't think that one was dropped.

Best of luck,
Rick

[opus7600]

Well, I guess I know that *now*. But I think you're coming at this from the wrong angle. You see it as a long-time collector and fountain pen professional. I come at from the angle of a fountain pen idiot.

I do understand that you see the offer to pay half for the damage as generous. I disagree.

Allow me to translate to another field, so perhaps you can see it with fresh eyes. I hired an electrician to replace the single bulb dangling from an exposed wire over my dining room table with a glorious crystal chandelier. He did! It was a marvelous chandelier! He also surprised me by installing a dimmer switch to control the chandelier, without even charging a penny for it. I noted the dimmer switch was there, but most of the time, I like my lights either on or off. The chandelier was fine at dinner that night. And a breakfast and lunch the next day. For dinner, the kids were out, and I wanted a romantic dinner with my wife. I said, "aha! dimmer switch!", and dialed the switch down to halfway, whereupon the lights went out, and the circuit breaker board burst into flames. When I got the electrician in to look at the damage, he said, "Well, I can cover half the cost of the repairs."

Edited by opus7600, 31 December 2012 - 09:14 PM.

[Hugh]

perhaps you and the repair person could split the repair costs? he assumes responsibilty for one tine, and you assume responsibility for the other?

Here is my assessment of the issue....

pen came back, worked, etc...

cap was loose...

RIGHT HERE... you should have contacted the repair person.

if you had a repair done and something is not right, STOP.

whereas, the repair person might not have set the nib properly, minimally, you should allow them opportunity to fix the issue.

Tightening the cap, where it has resistance, in general is a bad practice.

If I were the pen repair person, I would try to come to a compromise, and that would be (at least in my mind) to fix the pen, half price. (customer goodwill)

The nib issues to me, looks like it was caused by a clearance issue, but somewhere, I would want to measure the pen, and depth, and nib setting before i make that assessment.

I don't think that one was dropped.

Best of luck,
Rick

I couldn't disagree more Rick !! The pen should come back correct, simple as that, and the if the act of screwing the cap on as it's meant to causes damage that's a faulty repair. The fault lies fairly and squarely with the repairer who failed to return the pen in correct working ( and usable) order after resetting the nib and the damage occurred as a result of this , I'm sure had "opus" realized he would have returned the pen. That he didn't doesn't somehow shift any of the "blame" to him. A simple measurement would put the issue beyond doubt.

IF you where the repairman and pulled the 50/50 bit on me I'd never use or recommend you again!! Still it's better than the 0/100 offered... He stuffed up, he should fix it at his expense.

The fact "opus" had to make a paypal claim indicates at no point was the repairman prepared to accept his workmanship was faulty ( or even check that it wasn't), or a cause of the damage means, I guess, there was never going to be even the option of a compromise.

Regards
Hugh

[Jerry Adair]

Emotional baggage? It's a pen

I cinly understand, and envy, that you've never had a pen make you sad.

But have you never felt *any* emotion regarding a pen? Not a single pen has ever made you just a little happier each time you ink it or pick it up to write with it? No pen, upon seeing it in pictures or in person, has made you breathe in awe? That makes me feel just a bit sorry for you. I hope someday you find a pen that makes you happy. I have one or two in my collection. Clearly this pen isn't in that set.

I have 14 grandchildren that makes me happy. A pen is inantimate it doesnt smile giggle, laugh, hug you, kiss you goodnight. It is just there like your car or your lathe or your pool. are they beautiful? Absolutley. I have owned many a pen that in and of itself was a work of art. I still own many that are works of art. It is not necesary for you to feel sorry for me. I am 72 and have beaten cancer twice, I have a great wife a 72MGB I can still shoot pretty straight and I have a passion for pens
Jerry

[sloegin]

Echoing Hugh's sentiment above me, I'd like to know who the repair-man is if only to avoid them.

[opus7600]

I have 14 grandchildren that makes me happy. A pen is inantimate it doesnt smile giggle, laugh, hug you, kiss you goodnight. It is just there like your car or your lathe or your pool. are they beautiful? Absolutley. I have owned many a pen that in and of itself was a work of art. I still own many that are works of art. It is not necesary for you to feel sorry for me. I am 72 and have beaten cancer twice, I have a great wife a 72MGB I can still shoot pretty straight and I have a passion for pens
Jerry

Well! I am sorry to have riled you up so. You're right, of course. It was quite presumptuous of me to attempt to tell you how you ought to feel. I can't begin to imagine how that could get on one's nerves.

[Rick Krantz]

Interesting points both Hugh and Opus. I feel that with the example given, perhaps I did not understand the whole story as well as I thought I did. It certainly does make one think.

[Jerry Adair]

I have 14 grandchildr th makes me happy. A pen is inantimate it doesnt smile giggle, laugh, hug you, kiss you goodnight. It is just there like your car or your lathe or your pool. are they beautiful? Absolutley. I have owned many a pen that in and of itself w a work of art. I still own many that are works of art. It is not necesary for you to feel sorry for me. I am 72 and have beaten cancer twice, I hav a great wife a 72MGB I can still shoot pretty straight I have a passion for pens
Jerry

Well! I am sorry to have riled you up so. You're right, of course. It was quite presumptuous of me to attempt to tell you how you ought to feel. I can't begin to imagine how that could get on one's nerves.

I am not riled. People that used to work forme riled me. Pens are really a passion for for me as well as the people (for the most part) Over the last 24 years or so I have made many a,friend in this hobby. Heck about 3 weeks ago I drove from Shorewood Il to Janesville WI to attend the Janesville Pen Club meeting that is a 260 mile round trip. David Issacson myself and one other member were there. It was worth the trip. I talk frequently with many a pen craftsman to continue to learn the "mechanical side" of the hobby. That is to fabricate pens and parts. If you are goingto Philadelphia lookme up I arrive Fridaymid morning and leave for Illinois Sunday.. Ifyou come to the Chicagposhow I will be there too.
Jerry

[Dennis Lively]

14 grandchildren......wow!

Cingratulations Grandpa, I'll be they keep you pretty busy when they are around!

[Chi Town]

Well, I have been repairing pens for people for the last year or so and after reading this "volume", I can certainly say that I have learned something about customer service! I would like to think I was ahead of the curve with a situation like this this, but I can now say with absolute certainty that I WILL be ahead of the curve if I ever run into a situation such as this!

[PenRx]

1356495125[/url]' post='21307']

1356494943[/url]' post='21306']
Interestingly this topic was shut down over on the FPN. Strange really as it is an important issue overall in the context of what you should/shouldn't expect when having a pen repaired . The various opinions on both boards are interesting although I'm mystified how anyone can think that screwing the cap on as designed and that action results in nib damage is anything but shoddy workmanship.

Regards
Hugh

PS. On second though I've decided I would like to see the offending email....if for no other reason to ensure I avoid that "repairer".

A topic that invites passionate and sometimes conflicting opinion was shut down on FPN? Shocking

-d

Yes, shocking to the core.

[Michael Quitt]

I'm coming in very late to this. A question...did you send the pen to the repairperson with the cap screwed on it? I don't re-tip, but, when I was doing repairs for the public, I straightened my share of nibs. Most of the time the nibs were removed from the section and put back in after the work was done. I always checked to make sure that there was clearance so that the nib was not bent/twisted when the cap was screwed back on. That's just me, though, doing what I thought was proper. Even if "I" didn't screw up (pun intended), and the problem occurred when the pen was returned, I would usually make it "right", if little time had passed. I was always interested in developing a long term relationship with a customer and not trying to win a "battle". On the other hand, if the problem was due to outright abuse of the pen...that's another story...

Just my take...!!

Michael Quitt
www.charmcitypens.com

Edited by Michael Quitt, 14 August 2013 - 04:09 PM.