47 replies to this topic

[Hugh]

Syd

Clearly for you this is a "dream come true" and on that I wish you the best, being "up front" about the history is always good. Making what will essentially be "fantasy" models is just that. Wahl made some stunning pens through the '30/'40s but by the end they where fairly plain and uninspiring. Their final design ended up as the Parker 45 , a very longest lived model, so the direction is clear from a historical perspective and that they failed is also clear. Had Eversharp survived it's clear ballpoints made in China would be the main product, FPs made anywhere but the US would would be a secondary line ( Parker and Sheaffer prove this).

At the end of the day you'll be making "fantasy" models, having a lot of fun and probably producing pens both functional and attractive. Relevant to the original W-E ? No.

Regards
Hugh

Nah. If companies were not allowed to return to their roots, we would not have modern Parker Duofolds. I have not heard of the mosaic modern Duofolds called "fantasy pieces"

regards

david

Really!! A company disappears some 50 yrs ago....only to re-emerge....somehow I think the link with the "roots" well and truly severed !! W-E ceased to be a pen maker a long time ago, just the name lingered on. Parker, or course, has never disappeared and is in essence the original maker and owner of it's patents and allowing it to make any previous model it wants to ( use it's own history itself ). There is a difference.

Regards
Hugh

[Wahlnut]

All I wanted to do with the topic was to whet the appetite of my pen friends for the unveiling at the LA Pen Show to come and see what we offer up there. I did not intend to touch off a discussion about proprietary rights, but since that is where it has gone on this part of the posts, I will supply the following:

The Company did not completely disappear 50 years ago unless you mean their products fell off the public awareness consumer - collector radar. Eversharp continued to make pens of one kind or another (Ball points and refills even) for the entire 50 years, Under Parker's Benelux division in Europe, under the Astro Pen Company when it was sold to them and then under the Eversharp pen company which resurrected the name the first time...they also made pens but today is focused on other things. We acquired the rights to the US trademark and designs and the manufacture of the pens directly from the end of the chain...and now Wahl-Eversharp is us. By acquisition (like all other companies that are not owned by their original founders - and Wahl-Eversharp was not after 1932), we ARE the direct descendants by law and spirit of the original company. AND there are perhaps only 2 others who know and understand best the thinking and sometimes the absence of thought in their decisions. When my book finally comes out, the degree of detail about the day to day operations of the company and the economics of the product decision process will be more than apparent.

I hope this will clear up what seems like some confusion about the link to the past that our company has rightfully acquired. This is not a dead trademark come to life like Paul Wirt. I know first hand because I have been working on this since 2004 when I applied to the PTO for several trademarks of the company thinking they must be abandoned only to be denied because they were still actively in use. If one thinks we are not the best interpreters of the direction of our company theres nothing I can do about that. If you can not love the new pens for these reasons or any other, then simply please buy something else, but it feels unfair to to read what seems like cast aspersions on our wholesome ( hoped for profitable) efforts.

Syd

[JonSzanto]

Would someone please buy Hugh a drink? It's a new year, ffs. People should at least feign optimism, and leave the Ebenezer Scrooge stuff behind.

[Dennis Lively]

Hugh, We are producing offshoots of the Skyline first because we have all the molds and tools already. We also have a number of the classic reproduction Skylines in the line. Next year Flat Tops/Deco Bands and the year after that Dorics. Not really fantasy pens. But in some cases modernized as in our opinion would/could/should have been made moving well past he 50's. The far end of the spectrum is only as far as the original design will stretch. As an example,Here's that far out end:

the Carbon Fiber Skyline:



And here is the Aluminum from the Technic Series:




Fantasy? Well Yes, but well grounded Fantasy, preserving the basic design, but with updated materials, and details. Thats the idea. Not everyone will be on board with this, but we think it breathes life back into a dead brand rather than grabbing a well known name for a quick buck. This is at least an 8 year project unfolding. Maybe this helps separate me/us from being a mere name grabber opportunist. I hope so. Its all about integrity. you be the judge whether the new pens are relevant to the original line.

Syd

Like my Chinese friend HO-LEE SHI-ET would say...WOW!

Those are fantastic Syd! Stay on this track and you will need a dump truck to haul away the cash.

[Rick Krantz]

Nice work Syd!

Three words!

Sterling silver coronet!

Wish you well in your new venture!

Hope to buy some!

Best!
Rick

[Dennis Lively]

"Sterling silver coronet!"

YES RICK YES!!

With Lapis and or Black inserts.

Oh my fluttering heart...lol.

[Innes Cate]

Hi Syd

All the best in your venture - eight years in the planning and judging by the look of that Skyline indicates the final result will be a well thought through product .


Innes

[Hugh]

All I wanted to do with the topic was to whet the appetite of my pen friends for the unveiling at the LA Pen Show to come and see what we offer up there. I did not intend to touch off a discussion about proprietary rights, but since that is where it has gone on this part of the posts, I will supply the following:

The Company did not completely disappear 50 years ago unless you mean their products fell off the public awareness consumer - collector radar. Eversharp continued to make pens of one kind or another (Ball points and refills even) for the entire 50 years, Under Parker's Benelux division in Europe, under the Astro Pen Company when it was sold to them and then under the Eversharp pen company which resurrected the name the first time...they also made pens but today is focused on other things. We acquired the rights to the US trademark and designs and the manufacture of the pens directly from the end of the chain...and now Wahl-Eversharp is us. By acquisition (like all other companies that are not owned by their original founders - and Wahl-Eversharp was not after 1932), we ARE the direct descendants by law and spirit of the original company. AND there are perhaps only 2 others who know and understand best the thinking and sometimes the absence of thought in their decisions. When my book finally comes out, the degree of detail about the day to day operations of the company and the economics of the product decision process will be more than apparent.

I hope this will clear up what seems like some confusion about the link to the past that our company has rightfully acquired. This is not a dead trademark come to life like Paul Wirt. I know first hand because I have been working on this since 2004 when I applied to the PTO for several trademarks of the company thinking they must be abandoned only to be denied because they were still actively in use. If one thinks we are not the best interpreters of the direction of our company theres nothing I can do about that. If you can not love the new pens for these reasons or any other, then simply please buy something else, but it feels unfair to to read what seems like cast aspersions on our wholesome ( hoped for profitable) efforts.

Syd

Okay, lets clear a couple points up....initially I said "about to try to cash in on something they never had anything to do with"...with explanation something I probably shouldn't have written.Apologies for that remark. At no point have I cast doubt on your rights to the name, to imply that someone has ( meaning me) in this topic is incorrect, nor how you acquired the TM . You , of course, have every right to use them as you wish and that's not an issue. But to compare the sale of W-E in '32 which was for a fully functioning business to what your trying to do is a bit of a stretch, from a practical point W-E "died" 50 yrs ago. As I've said already I wish you the best but question the "wisdom" , I accept you have a strong personal motive and that's fine. What I do question is the relevance of trying to revive the long dead, to me sometimes those are best left in the past. I believe CS was resurrected with the same aims...a succession of owners has produced a different result...and as a mod on the FPN you only have to look at the CS forum their to see how that company has taken control of CS and it's history in that environment note the absence of vintage CS despite being a very well collected brand. Of course your input as a mod. on the FPN is beyond doubt and of the highest caliber.


More to the point is what I've raised will continue to be raised, this is an excellent forum for those "questions" to be addressed, just as you have. Yes, I've "had a bit of a go at you" and you've come up "with the goods". What I've written isn't "unfair" !! Nor have I commented on your designs, which look good btw. To my way of thinking it's how what your doing fits in the "big picture", that's always going to be the hard part initially.


For the record, you've addressed what I've raised with openness and straight forward answers, thank you. I suspect your chances of success are far better with that attitude.


Regards
Hugh

[Hugh]

Would someone please buy Hugh a drink? It's a new year, ffs. People should at least feign optimism, and leave the Ebenezer Scrooge stuff behind.

Clearly the New Year hasn't "lightened" you up much Jon !!

[ihimlen]

Fantastic news - good luck to both founders of the new-old Wahl Eversharp Pen Co. Hope the new pens will turn as many heads as the iconic Art Deco designs of Deco Bands, Equipoiseds, Dorics & Coronets.

i.

[JonSzanto]

Clearly the New Year hasn't "lightened" you up much Jon !!

Au contraire, I'm positively giddy!

[Wahlnut]

All I wanted to do with the topic was to whet the appetite of my pen friends for the unveiling at the LA Pen Show to come and see what we offer up there. I did not intend to touch off a discussion about proprietary rights, but since that is where it has gone on this part of the posts, I will supply the following:

The Company did not completely disappear 50 years ago unless you mean their products fell off the public awareness consumer - collector radar. Eversharp continued to make pens of one kind or another (Ball points and refills even) for the entire 50 years, Under Parker's Benelux division in Europe, under the Astro Pen Company when it was sold to them and then under the Eversharp pen company which resurrected the name the first time...they also made pens but today is focused on other things. We acquired the rights to the US trademark and designs and the manufacture of the pens directly from the end of the chain...and now Wahl-Eversharp is us. By acquisition (like all other companies that are not owned by their original founders - and Wahl-Eversharp was not after 1932), we ARE the direct descendants by law and spirit of the original company. AND there are perhaps only 2 others who know and understand best the thinking and sometimes the absence of thought in their decisions. When my book finally comes out, the degree of detail about the day to day operations of the company and the economics of the product decision process will be more than apparent.

I hope this will clear up what seems like some confusion about the link to the past that our company has rightfully acquired. This is not a dead trademark come to life like Paul Wirt. I know first hand because I have been working on this since 2004 when I applied to the PTO for several trademarks of the company thinking they must be abandoned only to be denied because they were still actively in use. If one thinks we are not the best interpreters of the direction of our company theres nothing I can do about that. If you can not love the new pens for these reasons or any other, then simply please buy something else, but it feels unfair to to read what seems like cast aspersions on our wholesome ( hoped for profitable) efforts.

Syd

Okay, lets clear a couple points up....initially I said "about to try to cash in on something they never had anything to do with"...with explanation something I probably shouldn't have written.Apologies for that remark. At no point have I cast doubt on your rights to the name, to imply that someone has ( meaning me) in this topic is incorrect, nor how you acquired the TM . You , of course, have every right to use them as you wish and that's not an issue. But to compare the sale of W-E in '32 which was for a fully functioning business to what your trying to do is a bit of a stretch, from a practical point W-E "died" 50 yrs ago. As I've said already I wish you the best but question the "wisdom" , I accept you have a strong personal motive and that's fine. What I do question is the relevance of trying to revive the long dead, to me sometimes those are best left in the past. I believe CS was resurrected with the same aims...a succession of owners has produced a different result...and as a mod on the FPN you only have to look at the CS forum their to see how that company has taken control of CS and it's history in that environment note the absence of vintage CS despite being a very well collected brand. Of course your input as a mod. on the FPN is beyond doubt and of the highest caliber.

More to the point is what I've raised will continue to be raised, this is an excellent forum for those "questions" to be addressed, just as you have. Yes, I've "had a bit of a go at you" and you've come up "with the goods". What I've written isn't "unfair" !! Nor have I commented on your designs, which look good btw. To my way of thinking it's how what your doing fits in the "big picture", that's always going to be the hard part initially.

For the record, you've addressed what I've raised with openness and straight forward answers, thank you. I suspect your chances of success are far better with that attitude.

Regards
Hugh

Thanks for taking the time to clarify your position. Fair enough for me.

Like Dr.I said "Time will tell". I hope what we will do will demonstrate the dedication to the integrity of carrying forward the principals we have established and that you are concerned about. AND just maybe in the end it will be looked back upon as a 50 year "gap", instead of a 50 year old pen company death.

Syd

[BamaPen]

Really!! A company disappears some 50 yrs ago....only to re-emerge....somehow I think the link with the "roots" well and truly severed !! W-E ceased to be a pen maker a long time ago, just the name lingered on. Parker, or course, has never disappeared and is in essence the original maker and owner of it's patents and allowing it to make any previous model it wants to ( use it's own history itself ). There is a difference.

Regards
Hugh

Hugh,
Just so you know where I stand on the "new" Wahl-Eversharp venture, I am all for it. I'm a big Skyline fan and am pleased that someone as knowledgable as Syd is going to be making a credible "descendant" of the original.

That said, would you have preferred that Syd and Company introduce a line of pens that look a lot like Skylines but bear some unrelated brand name, maybe the Saperstein Skyline? Actually in the case of the Skyline, there have been quite a number of knockoffs of the design made around the world, but without the name. Although I've never had one of those in my hands, I simply assume that they are inferior to the original. By putting the Wahl-Eversharp name on the pen, Syd's message is that he intends to honor that name with equal or better quality products. A bold statement, I think, and one that should get good market response.

John

[Hugh]

Really!! A company disappears some 50 yrs ago....only to re-emerge....somehow I think the link with the "roots" well and truly severed !! W-E ceased to be a pen maker a long time ago, just the name lingered on. Parker, or course, has never disappeared and is in essence the original maker and owner of it's patents and allowing it to make any previous model it wants to ( use it's own history itself ). There is a difference.

Regards
Hugh

Hugh,
Just so you know where I stand on the "new" Wahl-Eversharp venture, I am all for it. I'm a big Skyline fan and am pleased that someone as knowledgable as Syd is going to be making a credible "descendant" of the original.

That said, would you have preferred that Syd and Company introduce a line of pens that look a lot like Skylines but bear some unrelated brand name, maybe the Saperstein Skyline? Actually in the case of the Skyline, there have been quite a number of knockoffs of the design made around the world, but without the name. Although I've never had one of those in my hands, I simply assume that they are inferior to the original. By putting the Wahl-Eversharp name on the pen, Syd's message is that he intends to honor that name with equal or better quality products. A bold statement, I think, and one that should get good market response.

John

Hi John,

Personally I'm not a fan of "bringing the dead back to live", so the answer to your question is yes. I have little doubt Syd will make a good product and , hopefully, find it an enjoyable experience. In the longer term it will be such issues as quality control, backup service and durability combined with price and style that will determine how the venture goes.

I like what I see so far , I guess one thing I'm not sure about is a screw on cap in this day and age. Still I have no idea how many pens Syd hopes to sell on a yearly basis, if a fairly low number then probably not an issue but I suspect in a "high" ( whatever that may be) volume market a slip cap would gain greater acceptance...anyway that's his department!!

Regards
Hugh

[Frank(Federalist Pens)]

SYD!

Best of luck with the new venture!
I think the two samples look great (especially the Carbon model!)!

BTW, Is Emmanuel the same person that made the 1990's version of the Skyline Pens??
(Just curious!)

Regards,
Frank

[June H]

Best of luck with your new venture. FWIW, I think both the carbon fibre and aluminium Skylines look fantastic.
What filling system do they use ?

Unfortunately, I suspect that they will be out of my price range for some time to come...

The filling system is standard Screw piston converter or Waterman (long) size cartridge. I don't want to slip into selling here on this forum. I will do that in the proper place when it is appropriate. To answer you comment about affordability, these particular pens are slated for about $250. Many others in the line up will be much less and a few, more.

Wahlnut:
My hope is that the new Wahl pens are not too heavy. It seems that some modern pen makers Parker- The one I have is quite a bit heavier than the Vintage pens of similar design.

June H
June's Antique Deskstuff

[Wahlnut]

SYD!

Best of luck with the new venture!
I think the two samples look great (especially the Carbon model!)!

BTW, Is Emmanuel the same person that made the 1990's version of the Skyline Pens??
(Just curious!)

Regards,
Frank

Thanks Frank!
Yes it's the same Emmanuel.

[Wahlnut]

Best of luck with your new venture. FWIW, I think both the carbon fibre and aluminium Skylines look fantastic.
What filling system do they use ?

Unfortunately, I suspect that they will be out of my price range for some time to come...

The filling system is standard Screw piston converter or Waterman (long) size cartridge. I don't want to slip into selling here on this forum. I will do that in the proper place when it is appropriate. To answer you comment about affordability, these particular pens are slated for about $250. Many others in the line up will be much less and a few, more.

Wahlnut:
My hope is that the new Wahl pens are not too heavy. It seems that some modern pen makers Parker- The one I have is quite a bit heavier than the Vintage pens of similar design.

June H
June's Antique Deskstuff

The new pens are on the lighter side depending on the material (metal versus plastic). The plastic body Metal cap pens (which are about mid way in weight in the new line-up) without ink weigh in at about 1 ounce. The New Gold Award pens in Gold Plate or Platinum Plate are all metal pens and a tad heavier.

[vintage penman]

Really!! A company disappears some 50 yrs ago....only to re-emerge....somehow I think the link with the "roots" well and truly severed !! W-E ceased to be a pen maker a long time ago, just the name lingered on. Parker, or course, has never disappeared and is in essence the original maker and owner of it's patents and allowing it to make any previous model it wants to ( use it's own history itself ). There is a difference.

Regards
Hugh

Hugh,
Just so you know where I stand on the "new" Wahl-Eversharp venture, I am all for it. I'm a big Skyline fan and am pleased that someone as knowledgable as Syd is going to be making a credible "descendant" of the original.

That said, would you have preferred that Syd and Company introduce a line of pens that look a lot like Skylines but bear some unrelated brand name, maybe the Saperstein Skyline? Actually in the case of the Skyline, there have been quite a number of knockoffs of the design made around the world, but without the name. Although I've never had one of those in my hands, I simply assume that they are inferior to the original. By putting the Wahl-Eversharp name on the pen, Syd's message is that he intends to honor that name with equal or better quality products. A bold statement, I think, and one that should get good market response.

John

Out of interest I did once own a knockoff Skyline - an Ariston made in Italy. It was an exceptionally well made pen, probably better than the original which I handily had to hand for comparison !

[Frank(Federalist Pens)]

SYD!

Best of luck with the new venture!
I think the two samples look great (especially the Carbon model!)!

BTW, Is Emmanuel the same person that made the 1990's version of the Skyline Pens??
(Just curious!)

Regards,
Frank

Thanks Frank!
Yes it's the same Emmanuel.

Nice! I have the Clear Demo model of that pen!
Great writer! The new ones can only be better!

Frank