39 replies to this topic

[Will]

I quite like the video format!--I wouldn't ever want all videos, but they have their uses, as Stef said. Shaky? Well, I guess that was just rude as said above. BUT, opus brought up a good point. (to stef) You often seem like you're not saying much, even though there is a lot of great information you have to share, and do share(but the repeating information etc..makes it sometimes hard to hear so). I think a script of some type would help you from having to re say things...from my own experience, it is really quite hard to make a to-the point video on pens, unless you really have an idea of the sequence of events and things you are going to talk about. I think one of the largest factors adding to the time of your videos is the way you describe the actions...sometimes it enhances things, but most of the time, it isn't necessary. All my videos are shit so far because I have not done so...that is not to say your videos are shit, because they are actually really good if you aren't using any sort of script. But I think you could cut down the time that the viewer has to spend, and make the video more enjoyable if you start planning them more.

Edited by Will, 28 January 2013 - 05:35 PM.

[AndyR]

Stef,

I'll be happy to give you any knowledge that's mine, or to pass on anything that's in the public domain. What I can't do is give away what someone else has published without their permission to do so. I would have thought that after a few repetitions this would have become clear to you, but you seem to be determined to be obtuse about it. Or are you too tight-fisted to buy the book?

Very well said Deb!

It is of course most generous of Stef to freely share his extensive knowledge and opinions with us all in his videos but he should also understand that those who may have spent a lifetime researching pens may prefer to dissipate their knowledge in different, more traditional ways. Given his reluctance to spend a few pounds on the book you recommended, I suspect he won't be saving up for the new Onoto book when it becomes available.....

Andy

[grandmia]

You have 2 suggestions to buy the book and suggestions for you to do the research. I think that is quite informative for you and way is lighted for you should decide to walk that path. But wanting someone to compromise their ethics for your gain, well I think it is important that quoting Churchill to induce guilt (if that is your intention, if not then I apologize but that is how it looks to me and perhaps you might rethink your quoting in the future so it does not look that) so you can get information that one feels it is not place to share, well, for me does not come across as great.

People share what they feel is proper for them to share. Some offer the knowledge freely, others feel compensation is warranted. Sometimes education is free, sometimes there is a price for it.
Deb has chosen to share with you the book and the name of another author. She has chosen not to further compromise the research done by another but advised you where you can gain more knowledge. For me, a good answer if I were the person addressed in the message would be thank you and then asking the pen community where I can get the book and perhaps at a good cost.

Up to you how you wish to come off.

Hi

I am not asking anyone to compromise anything i have simply asked a question.The quote is not for gilt purposes and is not aimed at anyone,it is a nice quote and one that i personally believe in.If i can help anyone then i am more than happy to do so,in fact i do help a lot of pen enthusiast and some times to my own cost therefore i would not say that i am tight fisted.

I am aware of any books that are available,i do have quite a number of them myself and i am aware of particular books that are being worked on.

So as you can see the above mentioned lady is not informing me of anything i am not already aware of.We have met before on another forum and unfortunately the replies i receive get a little personal and lose a little civility.

So i will bight my bottom lip and refrain from replying.

Thank you for your comments

Stef.

Hello Deb.


Yes i am aware of all this but with this being a open forum i thought members may share there knowledge with other members....

Thanks Stef.

I'm glad you're aware of all that. The solution to your problem must be clear for you. Buy the book!


The knowledge is not mine to give. I'd be plagiarising someone else's work if I copied all that out here for you. I've no idea what you think an open forum has to do with that.

I was under the opinion that forums are for helping others were we can ?

If you have knowledge, let others light their candles with it. Winston Churchil (1874-1965) British politician.

Stef.

[grandmia]

Deb I think it is wonderful that you are choosing to not compromise what you feel would be unethical to do.

I agree.

Regards
Hugh

Hi Hugh
I am not asking anyone to compromise anything..See above reply.

Thank you for your comments.

Stef.

[grandmia]

I quite like the video format!--I wouldn't ever want all videos, but they have their uses, as Stef said. Shaky? Well, I guess that was just rude as said above. BUT, opus brought up a good point. (to stef) You often seem like you're not saying much, even though there is a lot of great information you have to share, and do share(but the repeating information etc..makes it sometimes hard to hear so). I think a script of some type would help you from having to re say things...from my own experience, it is really quite hard to make a to-the point video on pens, unless you really have an idea of the sequence of events and things you are going to talk about. I think one of the largest factors adding to the time of your videos is the way you describe the actions...sometimes it enhances things, but most of the time, it isn't necessary. All my videos are shit so far because I have not done so...that is not to say your videos are shit, because they are actually really good if you aren't using any sort of script. But I think you could cut down the time that the viewer has to spend, and make the video more enjoyable if you start planning them more.

Hello Will
They say the ideal time for audience retention is three minutes which i have tried but in my opinion it is not long enough.I enjoy making my videos unscripted and of the cuff with no editing,what you see is what you get in fact the majority are done in one take then uploaded.Some are lovely pens and i could talk for hours about them and maybe i do,oh well !

More to come,keep watching.

Thank you for your comments.

Stef.

[grandmia]

Stef,

I'll be happy to give you any knowledge that's mine, or to pass on anything that's in the public domain. What I can't do is give away what someone else has published without their permission to do so. I would have thought that after a few repetitions this would have become clear to you, but you seem to be determined to be obtuse about it. Or are you too tight-fisted to buy the book?

Very well said Deb!

It is of course most generous of Stef to freely share his extensive knowledge and opinions with us all in his videos but he should also understand that those who may have spent a lifetime researching pens may prefer to dissipate their knowledge in different, more traditional ways. Given his reluctance to spend a few pounds on the book you recommended, I suspect he won't be saving up for the new Onoto book when it becomes available.....

Andy

Hello Andy

Sorry but i do not understand were "my reluctance" comes from ? Maybe you are reading to much into the aforementioned ladies comments.

I have more than enough fountain pen and repair books some bought private and some bought at the pen shows.So i wouldn't believe everything you read.

Thank you for your comments.

Stef.

[Hugh]

Deb I think it is wonderful that you are choosing to not compromise what you feel would be unethical to do.

I agree.

Regards
Hugh

Hi Hugh
I am not asking anyone to compromise anything..See above reply.

Thank you for your comments.

Stef.

Hi Stef,

No slight against you meant, I just agree with what Pat said about Deb. As you've found out Deb speaks her mind fairly forcibly , not exactly diplomatic but she gets her thoughts through loud and clear !! Perhaps this issue has gotten a bit "bigger" than it needed to , asking about the Onoto numbering system is perfectly reasonable ( and the comment about the forum being a place to share info.) as is Deb saying she feels unable to pass info. on due to it's source.

Regards
Hugh

[Deb]

Well, Stef, you said you wouldn't reply to me anymore and you haven't, but it hasn't stopped you talking about me behind my back, as it were. So let me address your comments - to your face.

You say, "We have met before on another forum and unfortunately the replies i receive get a little personal and lose a little civility. So i will bight my bottom lip and refrain from replying." Perhaps you'd care to do chapter and verse on our previous discussion in Fountain Pen Network where you were treated with complete courtesy by me, rather than making a vague implication of my having offended you or gotten personal. Yes, I have told you when I believe you are incorrect about something, but not in an offensive way. Disagreeing with you does not constitute an offense.

Next: "I am not asking anyone to compromise anything." What exactly was it then, that you were repeatedly doing? It appears to me that you were doing precisely that, and others seem to have interpreted it in the same way. When you were not given what you wanted, you pouted about information not being shared in open forums.

Also: "Maybe you are reading to much into the aforementioned ladies comments." What precisely do you mean by that? What more do you imagine that there is to be read into my comments other than what they plainly say?

I think you need to clarify your position, here. What is it that you've been trying to do, if not to encourage someone to illegally plagiarise copyrighted work? Further, you should have the guts to say plainly what it is you want to say about me - to me - and not hide behind hints, inferences and false accusations.

[AndyR]

I have more than enough fountain pen and repair books some bought private and some bought at the pen shows.So i wouldn't believe everything you read.

Without wishing to be unduly pedantic, you can't have more than enough books if you don't have the (inexpensive) one at present that appears to be the only one to contain any of the information you need. Alternatively, if you use the WES to gradually get to know the people who actually know about these things, I know from experience the real experts are usually very happy to share information with you - for your own personal use but not to disseminate willy-nilly on the internet.

I'm also now exceptionally careful about interpreting what I read about people and pens on the internet - but thanks for the advice.

Andy

[david i]

I was under the opinion that forums are for helping others were we can ?

Stef.

Note that this is a Straw Man and should be dismissed out of hand.

Whether or not "forums" (or this forum) are for "helping others" is irrelevant to one's discomfort with freely disseminating the private work of another, and thus should not be invoked as a counterpoint when someone voices such discomfort. Seriously...

regards

david

[Will]

I quite like the video format!--I wouldn't ever want all videos, but they have their uses, as Stef said. Shaky? Well, I guess that was just rude as said above. BUT, opus brought up a good point. (to stef) You often seem like you're not saying much, even though there is a lot of great information you have to share, and do share(but the repeating information etc..makes it sometimes hard to hear so). I think a script of some type would help you from having to re say things...from my own experience, it is really quite hard to make a to-the point video on pens, unless you really have an idea of the sequence of events and things you are going to talk about. I think one of the largest factors adding to the time of your videos is the way you describe the actions...sometimes it enhances things, but most of the time, it isn't necessary. All my videos are shit so far because I have not done so...that is not to say your videos are shit, because they are actually really good if you aren't using any sort of script. But I think you could cut down the time that the viewer has to spend, and make the video more enjoyable if you start planning them more.

Hello Will
They say the ideal time for audience retention is three minutes which i have tried but in my opinion it is not long enough.I enjoy making my videos unscripted and of the cuff with no editing,what you see is what you get in fact the majority are done in one take then uploaded.Some are lovely pens and i could talk for hours about them and maybe i do,oh well !

More to come,keep watching.

Thank you for your comments.

Stef.

I get that you want to cover as much as you can...a video longer than 3 minutes is fine! I'm just saying try to make it as short as you can but still cover what you want to cover.

[grandmia]

I quite like the video format!--I wouldn't ever want all videos, but they have their uses, as Stef said. Shaky? Well, I guess that was just rude as said above. BUT, opus brought up a good point. (to stef) You often seem like you're not saying much, even though there is a lot of great information you have to share, and do share(but the repeating information etc..makes it sometimes hard to hear so). I think a script of some type would help you from having to re say things...from my own experience, it is really quite hard to make a to-the point video on pens, unless you really have an idea of the sequence of events and things you are going to talk about. I think one of the largest factors adding to the time of your videos is the way you describe the actions...sometimes it enhances things, but most of the time, it isn't necessary. All my videos are shit so far because I have not done so...that is not to say your videos are shit, because they are actually really good if you aren't using any sort of script. But I think you could cut down the time that the viewer has to spend, and make the video more enjoyable if you start planning them more.

Hello Will
They say the ideal time for audience retention is three minutes which i have tried but in my opinion it is not long enough.I enjoy making my videos unscripted and of the cuff with no editing,what you see is what you get in fact the majority are done in one take then uploaded.Some are lovely pens and i could talk for hours about them and maybe i do,oh well !

More to come,keep watching.

Thank you for your comments.

Stef.

I get that you want to cover as much as you can...a video longer than 3 minutes is fine! I'm just saying try to make it as short as you can but still cover what you want to cover.

Hi Will...Unfortunatly i like to talk about the pens, and maybe it is to much. While other viewers seem to enjoy the videos then why change ?

[opus7600]

Hi Will...Unfortunatly i like to talk about the pens, and maybe it is to much. While other viewers seem to enjoy the videos then why change ?

You don't have to change. Free country, yadda yadda.

...but the only comments you have gotten on your videos in this thread have ranged from neutral through constructive criticism to outright hostility. Where are all the people who love your videos as-is hanging out?

Honestly, it's fine with me if you want to keep doing things the way you do. It's fine with all of us. The fact that your videos are poorly executed does not offend us.

What it does is sadden us.

You clearly have knowledge. You clearly could be a great educator. Some of us are trying to share our opinions on how to get you there.

You may not want to be there. Or you may think we are wrong in our suggestions. But the only response I've seen from you so far is "Change is bad! This is who I am! Love me or leave me!", and you have failed to consider the suggestions on their merits.

[Will]

Hi Will...Unfortunatly i like to talk about the pens, and maybe it is to much. While other viewers seem to enjoy the videos then why change ?

You don't have to change. Free country, yadda yadda.

...but the only comments you have gotten on your videos in this thread have ranged from neutral through constructive criticism to outright hostility. Where are all the people who love your videos as-is hanging out?

Honestly, it's fine with me if you want to keep doing things the way you do. It's fine with all of us. The fact that your videos are poorly executed does not offend us.

What it does is sadden us.

You clearly have knowledge. You clearly could be a great educator. Some of us are trying to share our opinions on how to get you there.

You may not want to be there. Or you may think we are wrong in our suggestions. But the only response I've seen from you so far is "Change is bad! This is who I am! Love me or leave me!", and you have failed to consider the suggestions on their merits.

^^ He said it better than I did. It is not that I don't enjoy your videos now, but they could be more enjoyable if you took some of our advice (which to be honest you probably already noticed if you watch your own videos).
Some great video making on pens can be seen by Stephen Brown's latest works. He follows some sort of format, and is very to the point without being too brief. But I think the angle and distance from which you film your videos from is special, and I like it alot.

[grandmia]

Hi Will...Unfortunatly i like to talk about the pens, and maybe it is to much. While other viewers seem to enjoy the videos then why change ?

You don't have to change. Free country, yadda yadda.

...but the only comments you have gotten on your videos in this thread have ranged from neutral through constructive criticism to outright hostility. Where are all the people who love your videos as-is hanging out?

Honestly, it's fine with me if you want to keep doing things the way you do. It's fine with all of us. The fact that your videos are poorly executed does not offend us.

What it does is sadden us.

You clearly have knowledge. You clearly could be a great educator. Some of us are trying to share our opinions on how to get you there.

You may not want to be there. Or you may think we are wrong in our suggestions. But the only response I've seen from you so far is "Change is bad! This is who I am! Love me or leave me!", and you have failed to consider the suggestions on their merits.

Your quite right in that it seems all i receive is "neutral, constructive criticism and outright hostility" that is why i take it with a pinch of salt.

Please do not feel saddened on my behalf as some of the comments i receive actually make me laugh. I do appreciate that some members take fountain pens very seriously, i do not. As much as i enjoy my pens and every thing else connected to collecting, restoring, video reviews, pen shows etc it is all good fun to me. I receive messages, comment, emails etc from lot and lots of people who actually enjoy the videos, therefore why should i feel concerned from a small number who choose to criticize me ?
Personally i do not feel the videos are badly executed, they are made in a natural manner without any false glossing over.
I do not think change is bad in fact i do believe change is good and i am more than happy to change things or improve things if i feel they need it.

I do not make any apologies for my replies or my strong personalty. I was brought up to speak up for my self and say it as i feel is correct, i'm sure i may be wrong on occasions as much as i know i may be right.

Thank you for your comments.


Stef.

[david i]

Your quite right in that it seems all i receive is "neutral, constructive criticism and outright hostility" that is why i take it with a pinch of salt.

Please do not feel saddened on my behalf as some of the comments i receive actually make me laugh. I do appreciate that some members take fountain pens very seriously, i do not. As much as i enjoy my pens and every thing else connected to collecting, restoring, video reviews, pen shows etc it is all good fun to me. I receive messages, comment, emails etc from lot and lots of people who actually enjoy the videos, therefore why should i feel concerned from a small number who choose to criticize me ?
Personally i do not feel the videos are badly executed, they are made in a natural manner without any false glossing over.
I do not think change is bad in fact i do believe change is good and i am more than happy to change things or improve things if i feel they need it.

I do not make any apologies for my replies or my strong personalty. I was brought up to speak up for my self and say it as i feel is correct, i'm sure i may be wrong on occasions as much as i know i may be right.

Thank you for your comments.


Stef.

If all one receives is non-flattering feedback, leading one to take such information with "pinch of salt", then one demonstrates what we call here, Sour Grapes. Ignoring the world because the world does not agree with you is... unfortunate, though somewhat entertaining.

It is clear you take fountain pens seriously, though only now you deny it.

Furthermore it is an old and tired tactic, when one hears what he wishes not to hear in online discussion, to say, "I get tons of positive backchannel feedback, so there".

Furthermore, no one has suggested you be concerned by negative feedback. That seems to be more your concern.

It is fine to be (or to pretend to be) secure in what one does, to hell with the opinions of the crowd, but often that merely is a psychological defense mechanism.

regards

david

[grandmia]

Hi Will...Unfortunatly i like to talk about the pens, and maybe it is to much. While other viewers seem to enjoy the videos then why change ?

You don't have to change. Free country, yadda yadda.

...but the only comments you have gotten on your videos in this thread have ranged from neutral through constructive criticism to outright hostility. Where are all the people who love your videos as-is hanging out?

Honestly, it's fine with me if you want to keep doing things the way you do. It's fine with all of us. The fact that your videos are poorly executed does not offend us.

What it does is sadden us.

You clearly have knowledge. You clearly could be a great educator. Some of us are trying to share our opinions on how to get you there.

You may not want to be there. Or you may think we are wrong in our suggestions. But the only response I've seen from you so far is "Change is bad! This is who I am! Love me or leave me!", and you have failed to consider the suggestions on their merits.

^^ He said it better than I did. It is not that I don't enjoy your videos now, but they could be more enjoyable if you took some of our advice (which to be honest you probably already noticed if you watch your own videos).
Some great video making on pens can be seen by Stephen Brown's latest works. He follows some sort of format, and is very to the point without being too brief. But I think the angle and distance from which you film your videos from is special, and I like it alot.

Hi Will

Stephen makes his videos his own way and may follow a particular format, that's fine. I have had viewers asking why i do not appear on the videos with the pens ? Simple because the videos are of the pens not me, unless when i will do a humorous video. There are lots of pen videos some are good and some are crap, but who am i to tell these people how to make there videos ?

Will, at the end of the day if i made a perfect video there would still be the few that would find something in the video to criticize. That's what happens when we begin to share things in these times of social networking and on the WWW.

Thank you for your comment.

Stef.

[Will]

Hi Will...Unfortunatly i like to talk about the pens, and maybe it is to much. While other viewers seem to enjoy the videos then why change ?

You don't have to change. Free country, yadda yadda.

...but the only comments you have gotten on your videos in this thread have ranged from neutral through constructive criticism to outright hostility. Where are all the people who love your videos as-is hanging out?

Honestly, it's fine with me if you want to keep doing things the way you do. It's fine with all of us. The fact that your videos are poorly executed does not offend us.

What it does is sadden us.

You clearly have knowledge. You clearly could be a great educator. Some of us are trying to share our opinions on how to get you there.

You may not want to be there. Or you may think we are wrong in our suggestions. But the only response I've seen from you so far is "Change is bad! This is who I am! Love me or leave me!", and you have failed to consider the suggestions on their merits.

^^ He said it better than I did. It is not that I don't enjoy your videos now, but they could be more enjoyable if you took some of our advice (which to be honest you probably already noticed if you watch your own videos).
Some great video making on pens can be seen by Stephen Brown's latest works. He follows some sort of format, and is very to the point without being too brief. But I think the angle and distance from which you film your videos from is special, and I like it alot.

Hi Will

Stephen makes his videos his own way and may follow a particular format, that's fine. I have had viewers asking why i do not appear on the videos with the pens ? Simple because the videos are of the pens not me, unless when i will do a humorous video. There are lots of pen videos some are good and some are crap, but who am i to tell these people how to make there videos ?

Will, at the end of the day if i made a perfect video there would still be the few that would find something in the video to criticize. That's what happens when we begin to share things in these times of social networking and on the WWW.

Thank you for your comment.

Stef.

I wasn't saying show your face in the videos. I said I loved the way you film your videos in terms of the camera lighting...etc.
I'll stop arguing now. I will continue to be a fan! If you ever listen to my suggestions, that would be great.

[grandmia]

Your quite right in that it seems all i receive is "neutral, constructive criticism and outright hostility" that is why i take it with a pinch of salt.

Please do not feel saddened on my behalf as some of the comments i receive actually make me laugh. I do appreciate that some members take fountain pens very seriously, i do not. As much as i enjoy my pens and every thing else connected to collecting, restoring, video reviews, pen shows etc it is all good fun to me. I receive messages, comment, emails etc from lot and lots of people who actually enjoy the videos, therefore why should i feel concerned from a small number who choose to criticize me ?
Personally i do not feel the videos are badly executed, they are made in a natural manner without any false glossing over.
I do not think change is bad in fact i do believe change is good and i am more than happy to change things or improve things if i feel they need it.

I do not make any apologies for my replies or my strong personalty. I was brought up to speak up for my self and say it as i feel is correct, i'm sure i may be wrong on occasions as much as i know i may be right.

Thank you for your comments.


Stef.

If all one receives is non-flattering feedback, leading one to take such information with "pinch of salt", then one demonstrates what we call here, Sour Grapes. Ignoring the world because the world does not agree with you is... unfortunate, though somewhat entertaining.

It is clear you take fountain pens seriously, though only now you deny it.

Furthermore it is an old and tired tactic, when one hears what he wishes not to hear in online discussion, to say, "I get tons of positive backchannel feedback, so there".

Furthermore, no one has suggested you be concerned by negative feedback. That seems to be more your concern.

It is fine to be (or to pretend to be) secure in what one does, to hell with the opinions of the crowd, but often that merely is a psychological defense mechanism.

regards

david

Hello David

I am rather missing something here or my replies are being misinterpreted.

Im afraid there are no sour grapes on my behalf. And as far as ignoring the world, absolutely not. Ignoring one or two members who insist on criticising thing i do then maybe yes.
Off course i take my pens seriously but not a serious as some, pens are fun.

I am not playing a game the things i do take time and effort therefore there is no need for any old or new tactics. I am simply stating a fact that beyond the Fountain Pen Board i receive lots of complimentary messages from people who enjoy what i do. Also if i was doing things wrong then i do not think the viewing figures would have exceeded the 100,000 mark.

Believe me David i am not pretending at anything and i am more than secure with what i am doing if fact i am delighted with the responses i receive.And as far as " to hell with the opinions of the crown " well im sorry but i would not say one or two members constitutes a crowd.

Thank you for your comments

Regards

Stef.

[grandmia]

Hi Will...Unfortunatly i like to talk about the pens, and maybe it is to much. While other viewers seem to enjoy the videos then why change ?

You don't have to change. Free country, yadda yadda.

...but the only comments you have gotten on your videos in this thread have ranged from neutral through constructive criticism to outright hostility. Where are all the people who love your videos as-is hanging out?

Honestly, it's fine with me if you want to keep doing things the way you do. It's fine with all of us. The fact that your videos are poorly executed does not offend us.

What it does is sadden us.

You clearly have knowledge. You clearly could be a great educator. Some of us are trying to share our opinions on how to get you there.

You may not want to be there. Or you may think we are wrong in our suggestions. But the only response I've seen from you so far is "Change is bad! This is who I am! Love me or leave me!", and you have failed to consider the suggestions on their merits.

^^ He said it better than I did. It is not that I don't enjoy your videos now, but they could be more enjoyable if you took some of our advice (which to be honest you probably already noticed if you watch your own videos).
Some great video making on pens can be seen by Stephen Brown's latest works. He follows some sort of format, and is very to the point without being too brief. But I think the angle and distance from which you film your videos from is special, and I like it alot.

Hi Will

Stephen makes his videos his own way and may follow a particular format, that's fine. I have had viewers asking why i do not appear on the videos with the pens ? Simple because the videos are of the pens not me, unless when i will do a humorous video. There are lots of pen videos some are good and some are crap, but who am i to tell these people how to make there videos ?

Will, at the end of the day if i made a perfect video there would still be the few that would find something in the video to criticize. That's what happens when we begin to share things in these times of social networking and on the WWW.

Thank you for your comment.

Stef.

I wasn't saying show your face in the videos. I said I loved the way you film your videos in terms of the camera lighting...etc.
I'll stop arguing now. I will continue to be a fan! If you ever listen to my suggestions, that would be great.

Hi Will

I hope we were not arguing,but agreeing to disagree.

Regards

Stef.