66 replies to this topic

[JonSzanto]

I understand many of the older generation hate being told by a younger generation what to do, and what not to do, so I have to understand this at times.

It isn't your age that is the issue for most of us, but your lack of insight, introspection, and humility that turns people off. Believe me, I have students on a regular basis that are decades younger than me that enlighten me, that call me on stuff. Frankly, I tell them to, and am disappointed when they don't call me out.

You aren't there. In spite of a good many patient suggestions on this very board, you continue to miss the core issues that are holding you on the plateau of an immature world view. Like David, I have hope, but it is a far longer process with you than I would have imagined. If you had been one of my students, I would be questioning my methodology by now, but fortunately my success rates with people from ages 8 - 25 is very, very good.

Edited by JonSzanto, 06 May 2013 - 02:41 AM.

[Procyon]

My question is, why would you want me to rethink my statement, not that I shouldn't, but what do you want me to do...

Just so you can learn a bit about me, maybe read up about my astrological symbol;

http://www.huffingto...gy/aries/about/

For God's sake, what the hell does your astrological sign have to do with anything?

Astrology is the refuge of magical-thinking idiots who are clueless about the workings of the universe. Since I have spent my entire life doing science, I think anyone who resorts to this sort of argument should be burned at the stake. Actually, they should be tortured first.

Please report to me first thing in the morning for the burning splinters under the fingernails.


OK, just kidding - - - - - - - sort of.

[JonSzanto]

"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic."

- Arthur C. Clarke

[Procyon]

"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic."

- Arthur C. Clarke

Quite so, and one of my favorite quotes.


Although the magical-thinking I am referring to is the abandonment of scientific thought, even after the knowledge is gained, and the return to a view of the universe in the naive state that preceded the enlightenment of scientific knowledge. Once one has advanced to see the world in a scientific and reasonable way, it is, in my opinion, a terrible sin to revert back to the nonsensical world of magical thought.

Edited by Procyon, 06 May 2013 - 03:34 AM.

[brando090]

I understand many of the older generation hate being told by a younger generation what to do, and what not to do, so I have to understand this at times.

It isn't your age that is the issue for most of us, but your lack of insight, introspection, and humility that turns people off. Believe me, I have students on a regular basis that are decades younger than me that enlighten me, that call me on stuff. Frankly, I tell them to, and am disappointed when they don't call me out.

You aren't there. In spite of a good many patient suggestions on this very board, you continue to miss the core issues that are holding you on the plateau of an immature world view. Like David, I have hope, but it is a far longer process with you than I would have imagined. If you had been one of my students, I would be questioning my methodology by now, but fortunately my success rates with people from ages 8 - 25 is very, very good.

Thanks for this post.

I'm not disregarding anything you have said, but I do take into account peoples posts, the cause and effects, but I think it just may be harder to show since its not face to face. I'm not trying to say this is the root of the cause, but we all interpret text different that a face to face conversation with body language, etc.

All I asked for some basic decyphering techniques for vacs, and instead I get people infringing on different subject matter.

[david i]

Thanks for this post.

I'm not disregarding anything you have said, but I do take into account peoples posts, the cause and effects, but I think it just may be harder to show since its not face to face. I'm not trying to say this is the root of the cause, but we all interpret text different that a face to face conversation with body language, etc.

All I asked for some basic decyphering techniques for vacs, and instead I get people infringing on different subject matter.

Can one infringe on a subject matter?

-d

[JonSzanto]

I'm not disregarding anything you have said, but I do take into account peoples posts, the cause and effects, but I think it just may be harder to show since its not face to face. I'm not trying to say this is the root of the cause, but we all interpret text different that a face to face conversation with body language, etc.

I think I understand where you are coming from, Brandon. What I reply has to do with that, and also in reference to the comment that David has made:

It is true that one can infer many things in a real-time, face-to-face conversation that will have a very difficult task of transmission in a text-only medium. Two decades in, the bloom is coming a bit off the rose, as studies reveal some very harsh realities of virtual communications and social connectivity (see Sherry Turkle's "Alone Together"). So - it is absolutely paramount that, when we type at each other, we are as clear as we can be, choose our words carefully, and use the language of choice (in most of our cases, English) as correctly and precisely as possible.

Sometimes, that doesn't work out too well in your case, but - as has been pointed out on other occasions - something you can remedy. In this instance, David has made note of your misuse of the term infringe. Your words, as representative of your thoughts, are important to you. The more care you use in crafting your posts, the better the communication will be, and you'll reap higher value responses to your well-crafted questions.

HTH

[JonSzanto]

Although the magical-thinking I am referring to is the abandonment of scientific thought, even after the knowledge is gained, and the return to a view of the universe in the naive state that preceded the enlightenment of scientific knowledge. Once one has advanced to see the world in a scientific and reasonable way, it is, in my opinion, a terrible sin to revert back to the nonsensical world of magical thought.

Indeed, and as I assumed.

[brando090]

Thanks for this post.

I'm not disregarding anything you have said, but I do take into account peoples posts, the cause and effects, but I think it just may be harder to show since its not face to face. I'm not trying to say this is the root of the cause, but we all interpret text different that a face to face conversation with body language, etc.

All I asked for some basic decyphering techniques for vacs, and instead I get people infringing on different subject matter.

Can one infringe on a subject matter?

-d

That was the word I used when trying go show different subjects were being brought up in an unnecessary thread.

[brando090]

I'm not disregarding anything you have said, but I do take into account peoples posts, the cause and effects, but I think it just may be harder to show since its not face to face. I'm not trying to say this is the root of the cause, but we all interpret text different that a face to face conversation with body language, etc.

I think I understand where you are coming from, Brandon. What I reply has to do with that, and also in reference to the comment that David has made:

It is true that one can infer many things in a real-time, face-to-face conversation that will have a very difficult task of transmission in a text-only medium. Two decades in, the bloom is coming a bit off the rose, as studies reveal some very harsh realities of virtual communications and social connectivity (see Sherry Turkle's "Alone Together"). So - it is absolutely paramount that, when we type at each other, we are as clear as we can be, choose our words carefully, and use the language of choice (in most of our cases, English) as correctly and precisely as possible.

Sometimes, that doesn't work out too well in your case, but - as has been pointed out on other occasions - something you can remedy. In this instance, David has made note of your misuse of the term infringe. Your words, as representative of your thoughts, are important to you. The more care you use in crafting your posts, the better the communication will be, and you'll reap higher value responses to your well-crafted questions.

HTH

I believe, and hope, a high quality post will help. I'll work on that, and I hope that its beneficial to all.

[PatMorgan]

Here is your chance again.

You made a statement about me and I am giving you the chance to rethink determining if you want to retract it, then apologize for it, keep it and do nothing, expand upon it based upon further conversations we have had,

So what are going to do?

And PS,

Your link to me about Aries is not a good thing to do.

I feel dumb asking... but why is it a bad thing....

Also I will retract that statement. And I apologize for any hurt feelings.

I understand many of the older generation hate being told by a younger generation what to do, and what not to do, so I have to understand this at times. This is just a general statement, not referencing any particular people.

Brandon,

It is unfortunate once again that things are not being seen by you.

This was your statement to me:


What is exactly your purpose, I don't understand what your problem is. Can the world not have young entrepreneur? This is what the world is based on. Its extremely discouraging when your having someone so concerned with the little things, that you can no longer jump into as hobby with both feet.

Also stop dirtying up my threads. If you have a problem start a thread regarding your hatred towards young entrepreneurs such as myself or message me. This is no way to go about your feelings.

====
There are a number of remarks in this. First you assumed I was attacking you because I had a hatred towards young entrepreneurs. That would mean I hate every young entrepreneur. That means to me, you are calling me a bigot towards any individual who is young and wants to be an entrepreneur. You made a generalized statement at the same time making an assumption concerning how I feel towards a large group. Look at your words and rethink them. You have called me a person who has hatred towards young entrepreneurs.

You crossed a line when you stated this is no way to go about your feelings. Are you now playing psychotherapist with me? What this does is tell us more about you than it does about me. Look at your words and rethink them.

What is my purpose you ask. You want people to teach you, you say teach me. There is message after message here with guidance for you to learn. I see very little of it has entered into practice on your part. You claim to be more mature than what last October when there was discussion? Are you more mature or have just gained time toward aging.

Something you must remember and that is something that many younger people do not realize, I am going to be 56 in a few weeks, I was once a teenager myself. I went through adolescence but differently than a great many teens my age. While people I knew in the 70s were smoking different substances I chose not to partake in it or be friends with them. I preferred to spend my time with older individuals such as being with my grandmother at the senior center because I enjoyed their life experiences and hearing their stories. I spent time with teachers rather than classmates and assisted them and in turn they tutored me in their break time when I needed it. I preferred older friends when I was teen rather than some of the foolish people who were around me. The few friends I had, were friends who were quite mature, more mature than I was.

When I was a teen I thought I knew everything. It was during VietNam and I protested the engagement, worked for politicians at the presidential and local level to get out of VietNam, spent my time during election periods selling buttons and handing out flyers. I thought I was so self important and knew everything. I was admitted to a college that had over 2000 applicants from around the country and I was one of 75 applicants admitted to the program and one of 45 to actually attend the program. I knew my black and white darkroom stuff like a pro. My high school photography teacher was a tech representative for Kodak and taught me well. It impressed the tech staff at the college who maintained the darkrooms but it did not impress my classmates. In fact, my classmates could easily in art knock me to the ground with their designs and their ability to create. I was a C student and deserved it because I did not have the art background that so many did. I never had the training in understanding the concepts and terms. I did have what they did not have and that was technical ability to salvage a print and soup it up and drop coffee beans into water and put the paper in it to create a sepia effect and then retouch their photograph to save it. The hotshot photographer from high school was not the hotshot photographer in college and I chose to leave after 1 year and go to a liberal arts college. The most important thing I got out of going to college is to realize it was not for me. I learned that I did not know everything and had to learn that I was no longer a teenager but the real world is not about knowing everything, it about the ability to discern.

Lots of people here have given you a free education in many different areas. From what I have seen if I were to grade you, it would be unsatisfactory. You want to consider yourself an expert and sell pens as an expert because you have read books over the last few months and have purchased pens and have done the research. You might be book learned on many levels and that might help you pass a test or two, but there is a lot lacking.

You apologized to me and from what I see it is a not a real apology. I accept real apologies, I do not accept apologies to placate me, I accept apologies when they are true acts of remorse because the act of contrition is the right act.

This is your statement to me:

Also I will retract that statement. And I apologize for any hurt feelings.

I understand many of the older generation hate being told by a younger generation what to do, and what not to do, so I have to understand this at times. This is just a general statement, not referencing any particular people.

----------
Your last paragraph of many of the older generation hate being told a younger generation what to do.

Oh the arrogance of youth. How rude and arrogant. Many of us on this board who have placed words here to assist you in becoming a better, more ethical individual by offering you lessons on how to improve and mature and you dare to have this arrogance towards any of us who are of the older generation. The older generation are the very people you are coming to ask them to share their knowledge of pendom and business so you can make a buck selling your wares and you dare to insult me and anyone else here? Oh the arrogance and disrespect. People are giving their many years worth knowledge that they spent thousands of hours learning, perhaps thousands of dollars to hundred of thousands of dollars collecting and offering it freely to anyone who asks a question. And you dare to have the arrogance to make the rude remark as follows:
I understand many of the older generation hate being told by a younger generation what to do, and what not to do, so I have to understand this at times. This is just a general statement, not referencing any particular people.

You might feel you have matured, but you have not. The very people you are using to get their knowledge so you can be that young entrepreneur and the big businessman, these are the people you launched an insult towards.

High school from what I have observed is that time when students think they know everything, I was one of those people and still witness it today. College teaches you if one wants to learn that they do not know everything. If you want that younger generation vs older generation routine, then realize this, this older generation is giving you freely their knowledge and life experience so you can sell your wares to buyers. How rude of you Brandon, how rude.

[PatMorgan]

Here is your chance again.

You made a statement about me and I am giving you the chance to rethink determining if you want to retract it, then apologize for it, keep it and do nothing, expand upon it based upon further conversations we have had,

So what are going to do?

And PS,

Your link to me about Aries is not a good thing to do.

I feel dumb asking... but why is it a bad thing....

Also I will retract that statement. And I apologize for any hurt feelings.

I understand many of the older generation hate being told by a younger generation what to do, and what not to do, so I have to understand this at times. This is just a general statement, not referencing any particular people.

Now the question about your link to Aries. You assume that I know nothing about astrology by linking. You could have easily said to me, I am a typical Aries and that would have been sufficient. Instead, your lack of life experience but in your mind you think you know more than people who are older and more experienced is rude.

Just because one is an Aries does not make them a good leader, a good adviser, a good person to follow. That is why there are 11 other months out of the year. Scorpio is there to rip people apart and bite off the heads of those who do not understand boundaries. Libra is there to teach about justice and balance. Gemini is there to teach of two minds and communicate both sides of an issue. If follow that personality of being an Aries you going to have a wicked awakening when the other 11 months rebel against you teaching the hard lessons. If you want to play the astrology game, that is your choice, you are just a few years away from the lessons that the stars and planets will teach you if you wish to believe in it. Those lessons are hard. The lesson of the Saturn Return is a difficult one and one that makes the difference to those who choose to believe. Some learn the lessons, some merely attend class, but Saturn is a teacher. That is if you believe in astrology, if not, then it is nothing.

[PatMorgan]

Thanks for this post.

I'm not disregarding anything you have said, but I do take into account peoples posts, the cause and effects, but I think it just may be harder to show since its not face to face. I'm not trying to say this is the root of the cause, but we all interpret text different that a face to face conversation with body language, etc.

All I asked for some basic decyphering techniques for vacs, and instead I get people infringing on different subject matter.

Can one infringe on a subject matter?

-d

That was the word I used when trying go show different subjects were being brought up in an unnecessary thread.

You were in this thread asked to show the vacumatics, have you received them as of yet? Do you have a link to the auction or sale message concerning the vacs?

[JonSzanto]

Pat, Pat, Pat: a little brevity would go a long way. Just sayin'...

[PatMorgan]

Pat, Pat, Pat: a little brevity would go a long way. Just sayin'...

thank you, looking back, i see.

[brando090]

Thanks for this post.

I'm not disregarding anything you have said, but I do take into account peoples posts, the cause and effects, but I think it just may be harder to show since its not face to face. I'm not trying to say this is the root of the cause, but we all interpret text different that a face to face conversation with body language, etc.

All I asked for some basic decyphering techniques for vacs, and instead I get people infringing on different subject matter.

Can one infringe on a subject matter?

-d

That was the word I used when trying go show different subjects were being brought up in an unnecessary thread.

You were in this thread asked to show the vacumatics, have you received them as of yet? Do you have a link to the auction or sale message concerning the vacs?

I didn't buy them at an auction, I actually went to an estate sale and there were several. I have them in a trade, so they are being held onto for that particular reason.

[brando090]

Thanks for this post.

I'm not disregarding anything you have said, but I do take into account peoples posts, the cause and effects, but I think it just may be harder to show since its not face to face. I'm not trying to say this is the root of the cause, but we all interpret text different that a face to face conversation with body language, etc.

All I asked for some basic decyphering techniques for vacs, and instead I get people infringing on different subject matter.

Can one infringe on a subject matter?

-d

That was the word I used when trying go show different subjects were being brought up in an unnecessary thread.

You were in this thread asked to show the vacumatics, have you received them as of yet? Do you have a link to the auction or sale message concerning the vacs?

Double post

Edited by brando090, 07 May 2013 - 03:11 AM.

[brando090]

Here is your chance again.

You made a statement about me and I am giving you the chance to rethink determining if you want to retract it, then apologize for it, keep it and do nothing, expand upon it based upon further conversations we have had,

So what are going to do?

And PS,

Your link to me about Aries is not a good thing to do.

I feel dumb asking... but why is it a bad thing....

Also I will retract that statement. And I apologize for any hurt feelings.

I understand many of the older generation hate being told by a younger generation what to do, and what not to do, so I have to understand this at times. This is just a general statement, not referencing any particular people.

Brandon,

It is unfortunate once again that things are not being seen by you.

This was your statement to me:


What is exactly your purpose, I don't understand what your problem is. Can the world not have young entrepreneur? This is what the world is based on. Its extremely discouraging when your having someone so concerned with the little things, that you can no longer jump into as hobby with both feet.

Also stop dirtying up my threads. If you have a problem start a thread regarding your hatred towards young entrepreneurs such as myself or message me. This is no way to go about your feelings.

====
There are a number of remarks in this. First you assumed I was attacking you because I had a hatred towards young entrepreneurs. That would mean I hate every young entrepreneur. That means to me, you are calling me a bigot towards any individual who is young and wants to be an entrepreneur. You made a generalized statement at the same time making an assumption concerning how I feel towards a large group. Look at your words and rethink them. You have called me a person who has hatred towards young entrepreneurs.

You crossed a line when you stated this is no way to go about your feelings. Are you now playing psychotherapist with me? What this does is tell us more about you than it does about me. Look at your words and rethink them.

What is my purpose you ask. You want people to teach you, you say teach me. There is message after message here with guidance for you to learn. I see very little of it has entered into practice on your part. You claim to be more mature than what last October when there was discussion? Are you more mature or have just gained time toward aging.

Something you must remember and that is something that many younger people do not realize, I am going to be 56 in a few weeks, I was once a teenager myself. I went through adolescence but differently than a great many teens my age. While people I knew in the 70s were smoking different substances I chose not to partake in it or be friends with them. I preferred to spend my time with older individuals such as being with my grandmother at the senior center because I enjoyed their life experiences and hearing their stories. I spent time with teachers rather than classmates and assisted them and in turn they tutored me in their break time when I needed it. I preferred older friends when I was teen rather than some of the foolish people who were around me. The few friends I had, were friends who were quite mature, more mature than I was.

When I was a teen I thought I knew everything. It was during VietNam and I protested the engagement, worked for politicians at the presidential and local level to get out of VietNam, spent my time during election periods selling buttons and handing out flyers. I thought I was so self important and knew everything. I was admitted to a college that had over 2000 applicants from around the country and I was one of 75 applicants admitted to the program and one of 45 to actually attend the program. I knew my black and white darkroom stuff like a pro. My high school photography teacher was a tech representative for Kodak and taught me well. It impressed the tech staff at the college who maintained the darkrooms but it did not impress my classmates. In fact, my classmates could easily in art knock me to the ground with their designs and their ability to create. I was a C student and deserved it because I did not have the art background that so many did. I never had the training in understanding the concepts and terms. I did have what they did not have and that was technical ability to salvage a print and soup it up and drop coffee beans into water and put the paper in it to create a sepia effect and then retouch their photograph to save it. The hotshot photographer from high school was not the hotshot photographer in college and I chose to leave after 1 year and go to a liberal arts college. The most important thing I got out of going to college is to realize it was not for me. I learned that I did not know everything and had to learn that I was no longer a teenager but the real world is not about knowing everything, it about the ability to discern.

Lots of people here have given you a free education in many different areas. From what I have seen if I were to grade you, it would be unsatisfactory. You want to consider yourself an expert and sell pens as an expert because you have read books over the last few months and have purchased pens and have done the research. You might be book learned on many levels and that might help you pass a test or two, but there is a lot lacking.

You apologized to me and from what I see it is a not a real apology. I accept real apologies, I do not accept apologies to placate me, I accept apologies when they are true acts of remorse because the act of contrition is the right act.

This is your statement to me:

Also I will retract that statement. And I apologize for any hurt feelings.

I understand many of the older generation hate being told by a younger generation what to do, and what not to do, so I have to understand this at times. This is just a general statement, not referencing any particular people.

----------
Your last paragraph of many of the older generation hate being told a younger generation what to do.

Oh the arrogance of youth. How rude and arrogant. Many of us on this board who have placed words here to assist you in becoming a better, more ethical individual by offering you lessons on how to improve and mature and you dare to have this arrogance towards any of us who are of the older generation. The older generation are the very people you are coming to ask them to share their knowledge of pendom and business so you can make a buck selling your wares and you dare to insult me and anyone else here? Oh the arrogance and disrespect. People are giving their many years worth knowledge that they spent thousands of hours learning, perhaps thousands of dollars to hundred of thousands of dollars collecting and offering it freely to anyone who asks a question. And you dare to have the arrogance to make the rude remark as follows:
I understand many of the older generation hate being told by a younger generation what to do, and what not to do, so I have to understand this at times. This is just a general statement, not referencing any particular people.

You might feel you have matured, but you have not. The very people you are using to get their knowledge so you can be that young entrepreneur and the big businessman, these are the people you launched an insult towards.

High school from what I have observed is that time when students think they know everything, I was one of those people and still witness it today. College teaches you if one wants to learn that they do not know everything. If you want that younger generation vs older generation routine, then realize this, this older generation is giving you freely their knowledge and life experience so you can sell your wares to buyers. How rude of you Brandon, how rude.

I really, really do apologize for the interpretation of me calling you a bigot, I didn't choose my words well enough, and so it is my fault for this outcome. I truthfully need to choose my words better, and sharpen up on grammar.

Stereotyping has no place on a public forum, and I need to edit all posts which may coincide with this.

Pat, I also agree with your post relating to your friends of an older audience. I have the same likeness of older people, that you once did as a teen. I like to learn about the "good days," how easy it once was. The perfect word, nostalgia, comes to mind, though how can someone in the 90's have this? A great question, which I can't even answer.

The truth that lies between the two of us, if you learn from older people you will gain knowledge, but if you learn from less ambitious, less knowledgeable young people, there is not much you can learn from them, except say to yourself "thank gosh I didn't do that." I also did not partake in any activities which are illegal, though I can't say I haven't made stupid decisions which I regret.

I have been very fortunate to meet the people I have, ranging from homeless people, to top CEO's, to people who have million dollar pen collection, and seeing pens that I never knew existed, and learning how rare and expensive they are. Through my pen hobby, I'm not looking to necessarily make money off of others, but teach members about pens, while solidifying my collection and building on the great collection I have had the chance to build.

I do deeply regret and apologize for my actions in which have caused you to label me as rude, disrespectful, and arrogant. I will work on this, I can assure you.

Edited by brando090, 07 May 2013 - 03:36 AM.

[PatMorgan]

Hopefully Brandon, none of us here (including self) are helping to create a better con man.

Time will tell.

[brando090]

Hopefully Brandon, none of us here (including self) are helping to create a better con man.

Time will tell.

This hurts that you'd say this.