7 replies to this topic

[Hugh]

Gary posted this on the FPN. Quote : "I had the pleasure of viewing a 9K solid gold PFM which was produced by the Jewelers S J Rose , the owner brought it along to my table at the London Pen Show and very kindly let take a picture, I'm afraid the quality is poor because I didn't have my marco lense or tripod."


Thought it be of interest. It sure impressed me!!


Regards
Hugh

[david i]

Gary posted this on the FPN. Quote : "I had the pleasure of viewing a 9K solid gold PFM which was produced by the Jewelers S J Rose , the owner brought it along to my table at the London Pen Show and very kindly let take a picture, I'm afraid the quality is poor because I didn't have my marco lense or tripod."

Thought it be of interest. It sure impressed me!!

Regards
Hugh

Verily,

Though clip looks bit odd in the example you shot.

David

[Hugh]

Hi David,

Any idea how many of these where produced? The owner of the OP pen is quoted as thinking around 100. Also out of interest any idea as to "ballpark" value for a reasonable example.

Regards
Hugh

Edit to add: Gary has confirmed ( from a former Sheaffer employee ) the number produced by SJ Rose for Sheaffer UK to be 100.

[david i]

Hi David,

Any idea how many of these where produced? The owner of the OP pen is quoted as thinking around 100. Also out of interest any idea as to "ballpark" value for a reasonable example.

Regards
Hugh

Edit to add: Gary has confirmed ( from a former Sheaffer employee ) the number produced by SJ Rose for Sheaffer UK to be 100.

"Confirmed" might be strong word, though of course could be true, too. Barring paperwork, recollection has value but is not always accurate. It remains the claim of an old employee that Conway-Stewart produced just 200 "floral" pens (as mentioned in FPOTW), but there are serious doubts in hobbydom about that number..

What is of some concern is that I find I'm starting to forget pen data that once I knew. Either senility at 45, or volume overload. This pen has been discussed before. I handled the one that sold at auction (Bonham's?) about 6 years ago, which is photo'd above. Sold about $4,000 due largely to aggressive competition between two long-time collector/dealers. Vague recollection is the pen was then marketed asking more than $10k, but I am unaware if it sold. Vague recollection is that it is viewed as a sanctioned overlay- though not produced at Sheaffer proper- for an English store. It does not have (though some will debate this) quite the same cachet as if were a mythical factory-made Masterpiece. Still, a very significant pen no doubt.


regards

David

[Hugh]

Hi David,

I received this message from Gary:

Hi Hugh,

The phone conversation I had was with Andy Lambrou and the guy at Sheaffer was Ray Bailey who was the production manager.

While working on the CP pens with Sheaffer UK he asked Ray to find him one of the 9K PFM for his collection, which he couldn't but he did confirm they ordered 100 from SJ Rose, so he must have looked back in the order book.

I find it a little strange that more of these pens haven't surfaced if 100 were made, but I guess they could have been lost , scraped, still in the family etc.........

Cheers
Gary

I guess that's not actually "confirmed" but as close as we will get. The figure I see "floating around" for those floral conway 22's is 2,000. Still even with a run of that size they seem to surface regularly, I must have seen 20 or 30 come up for sale in the last 5 years.

Regards
Hugh

[David Nishimura]

Keep in mind that these pens were not made as collectibles, nor were they marketed to collectors.  So comparison with recent limited edition runs of 100 is not applicable: most of these PFMs were bought to be used, and likely bought by those wealthy enough not to feel any great need to sell them off, even if they are no longer being used.  And unlike the CS Florals, they were produced recently enough that a large number of the original purchasers are likely still alive -- an important factor, given that so many items end up on the market through estate clearances.

Nonetheless, one other factor must be considered: were all the pens made actually sold, and could some of those left unsold have ended up stripped and scrapped?

Might also note that looking down on outsourced overlays may be a bit USA-centric.  In other countries, the major penmakers routinely had high-end metalwork done by partners who were at the top of their specialties.  Think of Parker and Lefevre in France; Sheaffer and S. J. Rose in England is very much in parallel.  Earlier examples would also include Waterman and Mordan in the UK, and of course just about everyone and Heath in the USA early on.

[Hugh]

A bit more to add, this posted on the FPN by Simon:

Some news and more information to contribute to the Sheaffer PFM Masterpiece debate. I have now found out some more information. Sheaffer in the UK in the early 1960s asked a company called SJ Rose to make 100 solid gold PFMs for it. SJ Rose was a well known maker of gold items such as lighters and cigarette cases. The Technical and Marketing director of Sheaffer at that time personally confirmed that Sheaffer had commissioned these pens to a well known author of books on fountain pens. These pens are not 'aftermarket gold overlays' as some people have commented: they are solid gold and very heavy. 9ct gold is common in the UK and is a legally acceptable standard for gold. Because Sheaffer UK had presold or promised nearly all the pens before they were produced it did not put them into any of their catalogues but they were an official Sheaffer product. According to my informant most were given away or presold. At least one was sold through a high end retailer of gold, silver and jewellery in the UK 'Aspreys' but whether this was direct from Sheaffer or sold to Aspreys from a Sheaffer customer may never be known.

The pens were not marked with the Sheaffer Pen Company hallmark but the hallmark for SJ Rose and for 1962. The pen that Cooper Owen, the London Auctioneers, sold in 2003 was one of these 100 pens and was hallmarked SJ Rose. There is at least one other known to exist. The reference to sold gold PFMs in Schneider and Fischler's book may be a reference to these 100 pens.

An extra from an exhibition catalogue on SJ Rose is as follows
S. J. Rose and Sons of 19-21 Ridgmount Street, London, WC1. Telephone: Museum 0250. Cables: Inland: "Ridgrose, Westcent, London". Overseas: "Ridgrose, London"
• 1947 Listed Exhibitor - British Industries Fair. Manufacturers of Gold and Silver Cigarette Cases, Boxes, Vanity Cases, Brush Sets, Brazilian Key Chains, Sleeve Links, Dress Suites, Serviette Rings, Ash Trays, Cigar Piercers, Swizzle Sticks, Penknives and General Small Articles. (Olympia, Ground Floor, Stand No. E.1714)

Best wishes

Simon




It's amazing how the "bits and pieces" keep coming along!! I do agree with David N. that most would still be in the hands of either the original owner or their family, wealth avoids the need to "cash in".


Regards
Hugh

[Gary E]

I'm a little late in adding to this topic, but it was my poor quality picture of the 9K PFM that Hugh posted, it's a real shame I didn't get some better shots before the owner removed the pen from my grasp.It was in perfect condition, totally flawless and the owner was considering selling, but the price being talked about was a little too rich for me.

However it was a stunning piece and it was a pleasure to handle such a rare pen.

Cheers
Gary