20 replies to this topic

[Inkysloth]

I love Greenwich (in South East London, for those of you unfamiliar with London Boroughs!) and have been a regular rummager there from my early teens. Greenwich used to have many antique & junk shops, as well as three active markets. Now there's 1 1/2 markets, and only one junk shop, but it's still really good for a nose.

Since my pen-love was sparked a couple of months ago (yes, I'm currently very much in the honeymoon period) I've been keeping my eyes peeled for interesting - or just cheap (so I can try restoration with little fear) - pens. I've found a few that I'm really pleased with, and hope these aren't the last.

The first was an Osmiroid 65 - not a rare or particularly special pen, but it works a treat, and writes really nicely. It's become part of my small case of pens I take to work because it's so reliable.


Osmiroid 65 by Inkysloth, on Flickr

Then I found a different stall that sold mostly old engineering tools, lighters, small metal objects - I nearly passed it by, but spotted a small box with a few pens in. Two stood out as possibly interesting, a black Sheaffer with a nicely tapered end, and an Onoto. I made an offer, it was accepted, and I was a happy camper!


Greenwich Finds by Inkysloth, on Flickr

The Onoto was sent off to Eric Wilson for repairing, and he's fixed it up a treat The Sheaffer needs a new cap, pressure bar and sac... might take me a while to get all that sorted.

A couple of weeks ago I found a different stall, and bought a batch of 5 pens from a "bargain box" - included in the box was a ballpoint harlequin circlet (which I sold on Ebay for the same price I paid for the batch of five) and a very exciting early Conway Stewart, which had no cap, but Henry Simpole found a replacement, and I popped a new sac in, and it's a delight. The nib writes a lovely line, and has a little flex. It feels "soft" to use - almost like a fibre tip. It also squeaks a little, which I find a bit odd.


Conway Stewart 200 by Inkysloth, on Flickr

Two weeks ago I went for my weekly peruse. There was a nice striped vacumatic dufold, but the cap was mismatched and he was asking too much for a pen needing a cap and restoration. But the stall holder drew my attention to a very large, swishy looking Waterman, that I'd not looked at because it was out of my budget. We chatted a bit, and he said he'd do it for £45, and I said I'd need to go and think about it - so I did, and sent a text to my partner to see what he thought. I did a bit of Googling, saw it was worth significantly more than the price the stall holder was asking, so zoomed back to buy it.


Waterman's Patrician by Inkysloth, on Flickr

I keep getting it out of my drawer and staring at it, partly because the celluloid is so pearly and pretty, and partly because I can't quite believe my luck. I really hope once it's restored it writes nicely!

If anyone fancies a nose in Greenwich one Thursday, let me know

[ljwahl]

Wonderful report and excellent finds-- from your simple first to your spectacular last.

Happy hunting!

[BrianMcQueen]

Wow congratulations on the spectacular Patrician escpecially! It looks to be in gorgeous condition.

[JonSzanto]

We have a saying: "Holy cow!"

[Marsilius]

Maybe the most humble of the lot, but the Osmiroid and Platignum sets were the first pens I remember being given to use for sketching and calligraphy as a kid. I confess I am now a little spoiled by the fact that I can put an Esterbrook nib in the 6, which I have done. But that pen always brings nice memories of drawing and writing with green ink on everything. My class notes were cool in sixth grade because of it.

[AndyR]

Your CS200 was the mainstay of the Conway Stewart range for many years, listed (in slightly different forms) between c.1920 to (quite surprisingly) as late as c.1936, selling price 10s 6d throughout that period and many millions would have been sold. When you see other similar model numbers, (and there were several of them, such as 202, 206, 212), these referred to the same base pen with different combinations of clips and bands on barrel and/or cap, in gold or rolled gold. The less common 300 series was similar but slimmer.

However, you realise of course that a £45 Patrician (with all the bits and pieces present and correct) is probably 'a once in a collecting career' find. Things can only go downhill from here.....! I do find it very strange that even now, sellers do not always Google to see what they have got before pricing things up.

I'm sure you will enjoy continuing the chase, though I'm not sure I would have openly shared such a happy hunting ground as Greenwich market seems to have been for you!

Andy

[Deb]

That's a fine looking Onoto in great condition apart from the bite marks on the end. They should pop right out with a little heat. The latticed pattern is very attractive.

[Inkysloth]

That's a fine looking Onoto in great condition apart from the bite marks on the end. They should pop right out with a little heat. The latticed pattern is very attractive.

Thanks for the tip!

It came back from Eric with them removed - I didn't know how he'd done it, and now, maybe, I do!

It is a lovely pen, I love the lattice - that was the thing that really drew me to it. Now I've seen they did an "ink pencil" in the same finish, and of course I'm lusting after that, too. But I've found a heap of the fun is in the searching, so I'll carry on seeing what turns up in the markets and junk shops

[Inkysloth]

Your CS200 was the mainstay of the Conway Stewart range for many years, listed (in slightly different forms) between c.1920 to (quite surprisingly) as late as c.1936, selling price 10s 6d throughout that period and many millions would have been sold. When you see other similar model numbers, (and there were several of them, such as 202, 206, 212), these referred to the same base pen with different combinations of clips and bands on barrel and/or cap, in gold or rolled gold. The less common 300 series was similar but slimmer.

However, you realise of course that a £45 Patrician (with all the bits and pieces present and correct) is probably 'a once in a collecting career' find. Things can only go downhill from here.....! I do find it very strange that even now, sellers do not always Google to see what they have got before pricing things up.

I'm sure you will enjoy continuing the chase, though I'm not sure I would have openly shared such a happy hunting ground as Greenwich market seems to have been for you!

Andy

Thanks for the info!

I definitely don't expect to find anything like the Patrician again, though that won't stop me hunting! It is in need of work - the sac is solid (or at least, the lever barely moves, and I don't want to force it), but it seems to be complete in terms of clip, band, and little Waterman globe badge on the blind cap. Needless to say, this isn't one I'll be going at with the heat gun to have a look inside! I think I'll leave that to experienced hands. And yes, I find the lack of research surprising. Maybe people who have a lot of small items don't feel the need, as long as they make a small profit on each item.

Do you think I should try and get a silicon sac for it, to reduce the likelihood of future discolouration?

What I'd really like is a Typhoo promotional pen, particularly in red ripple. Not exactly worth a fortune, but I love the fact that a tea company had a pen promotion, and I do drink Typhoo sometimes. Or a Parker 51 vac demonstrator... but on that one I may have to continue to dream.

The Conway Stewart simply says "The Conway Stewart. No 200, Made in England". I've had trouble finding pictures online - the only one I could find that seemed to match was this one: http://www.conwayste...t=-1&id=cs.1250 though obviously the cap on mine isn't original so I don't know what its cap would have looked like (would it have had the same groove as the one in the photo). Also the lever is gold in colour (brass?) rather than silver. I'd love to know if there's a way to date it more accurately between 1920 - 1936.

Its rubber is faded a little, too - where the cap covers is clean black, but the main body of the barrel is a dark brown-black.

[Inkysloth]

Maybe the most humble of the lot, but the Osmiroid and Platignum sets were the first pens I remember being given to use for sketching and calligraphy as a kid. I confess I am now a little spoiled by the fact that I can put an Esterbrook nib in the 6, which I have done. But that pen always brings nice memories of drawing and writing with green ink on everything. My class notes were cool in sixth grade because of it.

I love the Osmiroids! I have a bit of an aim to try and collect one of each colour of the 65s, though I'm not sure how many colours that is... The Esterbrook nibs do seem a little nicer, but the Osmiroid italic nibs are very nice and crisp.

[AndyR]

Do you think I should try and get a silicon sac for it, to reduce the likelihood of future discolouration?

What I'd really like is a Typhoo promotional pen, particularly in red ripple. Not exactly worth a fortune, but I love the fact that a tea company had a pen promotion, and I do drink Typhoo sometimes. Or a Parker 51 vac demonstrator... but on that one I may have to continue to dream.

The Conway Stewart simply says "The Conway Stewart. No 200, Made in England". I've had trouble finding pictures online - the only one I could find that seemed to match was this one: http://www.conwayste...t=-1&id=cs.1250 though obviously the cap on mine isn't original so I don't know what its cap would have looked like (would it have had the same groove as the one in the photo). Also the lever is gold in colour (brass?) rather than silver. I'd love to know if there's a way to date it more accurately between 1920 - 1936.

Its rubber is faded a little, too - where the cap covers is clean black, but the main body of the barrel is a dark brown-black.

I'm no expert on Patricians but before purchasing silicone sacs, check out David Nishimura's posts within this topic http://fountainpenbo...o-they-make-em/.

Typhoo pens appear on ebay very regularly, you shouldn't have too much trouble finding one of them!

If you can post a picture of the lever on your 200 I can date it more accurately for you and tell you what the cap should look like. If the lever is straight (gold colour would be more common), as in the one you pictured from Max Davis' site, the cap you have is pretty much correct (though it probably would have had the groove) and the pen would date to the early 1920s. If on the other hand it has a lever with a paddle at the end including an entwined CS logo, and a couple of lugs either side, that would date the pen later than 1925, in which case the cap would have had a domed end rather than the flat end.

The 200 series was also made in mottled vulcanite (200M) and tan (really red but they called it tan) vulcanite (200T), the 200T being the really rare version.

Andy

[AndyR]

Sorry, in my earlier post I should also have directed you towards the late Jonathan Donahaye's Conway Stewart Encyclopedia here for plenty of pictures of the various model 200s.

Because of Jonathan's untimely passing, the website hasn't been updated for many years so you have to be a bit careful about some of the information there, knowledge has moved on a lot in the intervening period. However, all the pictures are as useful as ever and it is the first point of call online to look for vintage CS information.

Andy

Edited by AndyR, 29 April 2013 - 02:50 PM.

[Wahl]

A Patrician in good condition for 45 GBP ? That must be the luckiest find of the century !

Yes, I would advise that you put it into good hands for a proper restoration, including a real silicone sack, as the ones being made by David Nishimura.

[Inkysloth]

I'm no expert on Patricians but before purchasing silicone sacs, check out David Nishimura's posts within this topic http://fountainpenbo...o-they-make-em/.

Typhoo pens appear on ebay very regularly, you shouldn't have too much trouble finding one of them!

If you can post a picture of the lever on your 200 I can date it more accurately for you and tell you what the cap should look like. If the lever is straight (gold colour would be more common), as in the one you pictured from Max Davis' site, the cap you have is pretty much correct (though it probably would have had the groove) and the pen would date to the early 1920s. If on the other hand it has a lever with a paddle at the end including an entwined CS logo, and a couple of lugs either side, that would date the pen later than 1925, in which case the cap would have had a domed end rather than the flat end.

The 200 series was also made in mottled vulcanite (200M) and tan (really red but they called it tan) vulcanite (200T), the 200T being the really rare version.

Andy

That's really interesting about the silicon sacs - I bought some from a UK based company, and they certainly feel like silicone (I keep tropical fish, and have used both PVC and silicone tubing - these sacs feel more like the silicone tubing than the PVC, but they're a lot thinner, so I don't know what they "should" feel like, you know?)

The lever is straight, so it would seem to be a pre-1925 pen?

 CS 200 showing lever (Medium).jpg   212.41KB   6 downloads

Edited by Inkysloth, 29 April 2013 - 06:45 PM.

[AndyR]

The lever is straight, so it would seem to be a pre-1925 pen?

 CS 200 showing lever (Medium).jpg   212.41KB   6 downloads

Yes indeed, probably c. 1923 or 24 - because where nibs have the CS inscription earlier than this, the inscription is usually a bit on the crude side and, as far as I can see from your picture, the nib looks quite neatly inscribed.

Andy

[piscov]

That's a fine looking Onoto in great condition apart from the bite marks on the end. They should pop right out with a little heat. The latticed pattern is very attractive.

Thanks for the tip!

It came back from Eric with them removed - I didn't know how he'd done it, and now, maybe, I do!

It is a lovely pen, I love the lattice - that was the thing that really drew me to it. Now I've seen they did an "ink pencil" in the same finish, and of course I'm lusting after that, too. But I've found a heap of the fun is in the searching, so I'll carry on seeing what turns up in the markets and junk shops

Be very careful with heat. If you use heat from flame it can set the pen on fire easily ( I´ve done that on a Vacumatic) and if you use to much heat from a heat gun or hairdryer the celluloid can expand/contract. If you never don it, try it first in a pen you don't mind to ruin.

[welch]

Is that an Onoto Minor?

[pen piddler]

Wow! That Patrician is spectacular! Thank you for the story and the pics!

[Inkysloth]

Is that an Onoto Minor?

Indeed it is!

[Inkysloth]

Be very careful with heat. If you use heat from flame it can set the pen on fire easily ( I´ve done that on a Vacumatic) and if you use to much heat from a heat gun or hairdryer the celluloid can expand/contract. If you never don it, try it first in a pen you don't mind to ruin.

Urk!

I've been pretty cautious with the heat tool, and so far I've used it on two Osmiroid 65s, a little third-tier pen, and the Sheaffer Balance. I'm not taking any of my pens anywhere near an open flame! The heat tool I have is one used for rubber stampers to melt embossing powders and suchlike.

The nicer pens I'm happy to send out to experienced people for repair until I'm a lot more familiar with pen innards