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eBay Watch: Conklin Endura


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#1 BrianMcQueen

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Posted 03 May 2013 - 04:43 AM

Thoughts on this Conklin Endura?

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#2 Hugh

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Posted 03 May 2013 - 05:24 AM

Gee, that's a hard one. The pattern is consistent with blk/pearl but it doesn't look like it, generally the end of the cap shows the blk/pearl well but this looks brown/black. Apparently they didn't make the blueish/blk in senior. Be interesting to see what others think.

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Hugh
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#3 JonSzanto

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Posted 03 May 2013 - 05:36 AM

I had been looking at various Enduras this spring, and I've seen this color combination before, and I don't think it is a black and pearl. I think it is referred to as "black and bronze"?

#4 vintage penman

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Posted 03 May 2013 - 09:44 AM

It could be a black & bronze colour, however to my eyes at least it looks like badly but evenly discoloured black and pearl - perhaps my screen is a little off but I'm sure I can see paler plastic in the area of the cap thread.

#5 ljwahl

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Posted 03 May 2013 - 11:16 AM

Well, I think black and bronze is the color. Looks like a very nice pen, but overpriced given the context-- especially with no returns accepted. In your favor, however, is the seller's approval rating and excellent photos.

What are your thoughts, Brian?

Larry

Edited by ljwahl, 03 May 2013 - 11:17 AM.


#6 opus7600

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Posted 03 May 2013 - 12:40 PM

Looks to me like the seller used a photo editor to bump up the contrast a LOT to try to make the "bronze" part of the material more obvious. I expect that In real life, the contrast will be less pronounced.

Edited by opus7600, 03 May 2013 - 12:43 PM.


#7 david i

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Posted 03 May 2013 - 12:44 PM

Hi guys,


The Conklin OS Endura is Black/Bronze.

It is a rather flawed Black/Bronze, and while perhaps we can nitpick whether the flaw changes the formal grade ("Mint" etc is an oddly mapped term anyway, given pens never were minted) as our grading scale tends to cover use/wear but does not reflexively cover... color (a jade green Sheaffer can be unused but faded, etc), such that color perhaps is a key, but off-axis, independent-of-mintiness aspect of cachet and value.

Pens that have metallic look (eg. the Moss Agate dark-green-bronze of Waterman, but not the vaguely similar dark-green-and-brown of Wearever and of Canadian Parker Parkette) including the Waterman Moss Agate, Wahl Brazilian Green, etc, are at risk for losing the metallic element-- perhaps we can call it the metalessence-- from the metallic finish portions of the celluloid. Heat, chemical, liquid, light all might play role. I handled black/bronze Moore and Conklin pens just today at the Chicago Pen Show that showed just some degree of fading. Most pens have good color though. This is something to be watched for when examining/buying/valuing pens, but is not nearly found with frequency of, say, discolored Jade celluloid. The "bronze" colors are fairly stable.

Unlike color ambering (jade pens going spinach), this fading is not from inside out but rather from outside in. In many cases an aggressive polish or sanding can reveal metallic finish present below the faded white-ish panels. One must be cautious pursuing this by the imprint (life involved trade offs), and it does not always work.

The price on the pen is retail for a superb restored warrantied OS black/bronze Conk. The pen might not have been worn, and might have trim and imprint sharpness c/w the "nearmint label", but the color is a flaw. Think how you might price/value an OS Sheaffer Balance in Jade, nearly unworn but with brright jade color vs with spinach color.

In my view, with this level of color, the pen in question is quite overpriced. If it were carefully restored with attempt to reveal original color, it might then be worth the price, but I'd rather have that attempt made before I committed $500 to it.

Also, I often am leery of ads offering many exclamation points and advising/warning folks to consider the photos... strongly.

THoughts?

regards

david
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Email: isaacson@frontiernet.net

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#8 david i

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Posted 03 May 2013 - 12:54 PM

Waterman 94 in Moss Agate (Dark Green Pearlescent and Bronze metallic celllulioid) in nearm-mint/mint condition with sticker


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"Rare Protoype Dark-Green Pearlescent and White" Waterman 94

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Which would you rather pay $450 for?



regards



david
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Email: isaacson@frontiernet.net

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#9 BrianMcQueen

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Posted 03 May 2013 - 01:56 PM

Sorry for the late re-entry into the thread, and thanks to David! What I wanted to point out indeed was the loss of the metallic quality in the (what is supposed to be) bronze portion of the pen. If it has fallen into such a state for the seller to mistake it with Black and Pearl, then it is pretty far gone. Please look down near the bottom of the first page in this thread about Parker "Thrift" Pens where John Danza supplies a photograph of a pen which is supposed to be Lapis and Bronze (like Waterman's Turquoise), but which now appears to be Lapis and Cream. Interesting behavior in these pens sometimes.

Edited by BrianMcQueen, 03 May 2013 - 01:57 PM.


#10 Procyon

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Posted 03 May 2013 - 03:56 PM

I am also late to the thread, but I agree with David 100%. This is a black and bronze that is discolored to the extent that the bronze portions have lost their "glitter" look. I have seen the same thing in a Wahl-Eversharp Brazilian Green pen. One sure tip-off is the yellow paint in the small circular grooves in the cap and barrel (I don't know what to call these - never have). The black and bronze had yellow - the black and pearl had black paint in the grooves.

Edited by Procyon, 03 May 2013 - 04:08 PM.


Schrödinger's cat walks into a bar.  And doesn't.

 

 

Regards,
Allan


#11 plmadding

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Posted 03 May 2013 - 04:08 PM

I am also late to the thread, but I agree with David 100%. This is a black and bronze that is discolored to the extent that the bronze portions have lost their "glitter" look. I have seen the same thing in a Wahl-Eversharp Brazilian Green pen. One sure tip-off is the yellow paint in the small circular grooves in the cap and barrel (I don't know what to call these - never have). The black and bronze had yellow - the black and pearl had either black or none - I can't figure out which.



If I remember correctly, they are called "Annular lines" in the Conklin catalog.



Preston

#12 Procyon

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Posted 03 May 2013 - 04:11 PM


I am also late to the thread, but I agree with David 100%. This is a black and bronze that is discolored to the extent that the bronze portions have lost their "glitter" look. I have seen the same thing in a Wahl-Eversharp Brazilian Green pen. One sure tip-off is the yellow paint in the small circular grooves in the cap and barrel (I don't know what to call these - never have). The black and bronze had yellow - the black and pearl had either black or none - I can't figure out which.



If I remember correctly, they are called "Annular lines" in the Conklin catalog.



Preston


Good to know, Preston. Thanks! I also just went and looked at my black and pearl, and I am pretty sure the annular lines are black, and not just dirty, so I edited my previous comment to reflect that.

Not sure I will ever remember "annular lines", though. :huh:

Schrödinger's cat walks into a bar.  And doesn't.

 

 

Regards,
Allan


#13 JonSzanto

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Posted 03 May 2013 - 05:19 PM

Not sure I will ever remember "annular lines", though. :huh:

Hell, all I have to do is look in the mirror to remember that. :(

#14 Wahl

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Posted 03 May 2013 - 06:23 PM

This is how my Black and Bronze looks like.

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#15 Procyon

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Posted 03 May 2013 - 07:39 PM

I think I have all the colors of the Senior sized Conklin Endura Flat-Tops. Here are a couple of pictures. I also included a Standard sized pen in Imperial Blue and Bronze, since they didn't make the Senior in this color.

Left to Right: Red, Imperial Blue and Bronze, Black and Bronze, Black, Black and Pearl


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Left to Right: Sapphire Blue, Mahogany, Dark Green, Green, Light Green

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Note that the Black, Sapphire Blue, Mahogany, and all the Greens have Red annular lines. The Imperial Blue and the Black and Bronze have Yellow, the Red pen has Blue lines, and the Black and Pearl has Black annular lines. Also interesting are the three shades of green - usually you see either dark or light, but I have one pen/pencil set that is sort of in-between (didn't show any pencils here).

Edited by Procyon, 03 May 2013 - 07:47 PM.


Schrödinger's cat walks into a bar.  And doesn't.

 

 

Regards,
Allan


#16 JonSzanto

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Posted 03 May 2013 - 09:22 PM

Ok, Allan, I now officially dislike you with the passion of a thousand burning suns. Posted Image





Well, of course I don't, I'm just waiting patiently for my *first* Endura some day, and here you are with... the family! All kidding aside, I"m going to snag those photos as a reference source. I'm not sure what it is, but style, size, shape, etc - the classic Endura just hits my sweet spot for a lovely pen for the ages. I appreciate you sharing those images with us!

#17 BrianMcQueen

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Posted 04 May 2013 - 01:27 AM

One of the first pens I ever bought was a quite rare Endura. I didn't know what i was buying when I bought it. Procyon, you didn't picture it in your post above. It was a Senior size Endura in red with a Crescent Filler. Very short production run. Kind of wish I had it back but couldn't turn down the money at the time.

#18 Procyon

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Posted 04 May 2013 - 01:59 AM

One of the first pens I ever bought was a quite rare Endura. I didn't know what i was buying when I bought it. Procyon, you didn't picture it in your post above. It was a Senior size Endura in red with a Crescent Filler. Very short production run. Kind of wish I had it back but couldn't turn down the money at the time.



That is a rare pen. I would love to have one. I think the only one I have seen was also red. Don't know if other colors exist or not.

I have a few crescent fillers, but haven't really concentrated on those. I do particularly like the overlays, and have a few.

Also, I don't care much for the later Endura Symmetric streamlined shape, so I have basically ignored them, and, in fact, don't own an example.

Schrödinger's cat walks into a bar.  And doesn't.

 

 

Regards,
Allan


#19 Hugh

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Posted 04 May 2013 - 10:40 AM


One of the first pens I ever bought was a quite rare Endura. I didn't know what i was buying when I bought it. Procyon, you didn't picture it in your post above. It was a Senior size Endura in red with a Crescent Filler. Very short production run. Kind of wish I had it back but couldn't turn down the money at the time.



That is a rare pen. I would love to have one. I think the only one I have seen was also red. Don't know if other colors exist or not.

I have a few crescent fillers, but haven't really concentrated on those. I do particularly like the overlays, and have a few.

Also, I don't care much for the later Endura Symmetric streamlined shape, so I have basically ignored them, and, in fact, don't own an example.


I'd agree, rare pen. Seen several over the years and red as well, somewhere in the back of my mind says "also in black" with ????. Unlike Alan I love the streamline Endura/ Endura Symetric pens , I'd have more of them than flat tops.

Regards
Hugh
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#20 Wahl

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Posted 04 May 2013 - 04:03 PM

I have seen a Senior size Endura in black with a Crescent Filler.

These are mine

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