28 replies to this topic

[Marsilius]

1367701112[/url]' post='24634']

1367692446[/url]' post='24623']

1367637867[/url]' post='24586']
One can never have too many Grails....

My grails are pens in which aren't yet discovered, until I find them, and they happen to be one-of-a-kind specimens. I don't know if grail is the word to use, maybe prototype or or some other word.

How would you know that any pen you find is one of a kind.

Note, too, that neither one-of-a-kind nor new-to-you are sufficient to qualify as prototype.

regards

david

Actually, I like that definition of a grail pen: always the ONE yet seen, that cannot be, yet after which you nonetheless yearn and seek.

Procyon, those are beautiful. be careful when you are wandering around alone in the High Desert! Seriously, nice find.

Edited by Marsilius, 05 May 2013 - 02:54 PM.

[brando090]

Green-
Please insert picture of a prototype Parker for Brando. (Hiis camera is in the shop)
-Farmer

Copy FB.



Here you go.

Wow, beautiful pen. Is this a smooth silver or steel capped pen? Interesting experimental nib, and what looks to be a cut away, cut out in the back... I admire the Parker lab numbers on the barrel, and your collection of prototypes.

Nice pictures as well

[brando090]

One can never have too many Grails....

My grails are pens in which aren't yet discovered, until I find them, and they happen to be one-of-a-kind specimens. I don't know if grail is the word to use, maybe prototype or or some other word.

How would you know that any pen you find is one of a kind.

Note, too, that neither one-of-a-kind nor new-to-you are sufficient to qualify as prototype.

regards

david

True ,

I was mostly suggesting that jeweler pens are one of a kind. Most were one offs/prototypes, as most didn't go into production, though I did read about some confusion weather or not the Waterman Tree Trunk was a jeweler pen or manufacturer overlay.

I do mostly collect overlays, so I don't really seek out ebonite, plastic, celluloid or other various materials in their early stages.

Edited by brando090, 05 May 2013 - 07:02 PM.

[Rick Krantz]

cmon...quit messing with the readers on this, that ain't no prototype 51, that hood is just backwards... lol

actually on the nassau or the cracked ice estie set, I would choose that estie set all day long. I saw that in Baltimore, I believe, and i was stunning.

nice finds

Rick

[david i]

True ,

I was mostly suggesting that jeweler pens are one of a kind. Most were one offs/prototypes, as most didn't go into production, though I did read about some confusion weather or not the Waterman Tree Trunk was a jeweler pen or manufacturer overlay.

I do mostly collect overlays, so I don't really seek out ebonite, plastic, celluloid or other various materials in their early stages.

Jeweler's pens are not prototypes or one-offs in the collecting sense, anymore than my burning a hole in a pen in one particular spot of a random pen makes it a one-off or prototype in the collecting sense.

My knowledge of overlay Waterman's is not on par with that of, say, David Nishimura or Bob Novak, but I do believe I've seen a tree-trunk pen with Waterman markings on it.

Customized pens ("Jeweler's" stuff) can have charm and depending on context can have sanctioned role by the pen makers, but they are not what we call prototypes etc. Their value generally is extremely far below that of a true prototype or company "one-off". And, too, this does not even touch upon trying to prove that something odd is "one off".

regards

david

[brando090]

cmon...quit messing with the readers on this, that ain't no prototype 51, that hood is just backwards... lol

actually on the nassau or the cracked ice estie set, I would choose that estie set all day long. I saw that in Baltimore, I believe, and i was stunning.

nice finds

Rick

Wait, are you serious Rick...? The factory Parker card says experimental nib, and the lettering on the barrel leads to an early P51...

I guess it really shows my lack of knowledge with P51s, since only owning 5..

[brando090]

True ,

I was mostly suggesting that jeweler pens are one of a kind. Most were one offs/prototypes, as most didn't go into production, though I did read about some confusion weather or not the Waterman Tree Trunk was a jeweler pen or manufacturer overlay.

I do mostly collect overlays, so I don't really seek out ebonite, plastic, celluloid or other various materials in their early stages.

Jeweler's pens are not prototypes or one-offs in the collecting sense, anymore than my burning a hole in a pen in one particular spot of a random pen makes it a one-off or prototype in the collecting sense.

My knowledge of overlay Waterman's is not on part with that of, say, David Nishimura or Bob Novak, but I do believe I've seen a tree-trunk pen with Waterman markings on it.

Customized pens ("Jeweler's" stuff) can have charm and depending on context can have sanctioned role by the pen makers, but they are not what we call prototypes etc. Their value generally is extremely far below that of a true prototype or company "one-off". And, too, this does not even touch upon trying to prove that something odd is "one off".

regards

david

Thanks David for a great response,

I understand prototype relates more to a company, in which a product is produced and the product is in its early stages, and isn't a good terms for a jeweler pen. I dont know what the perfect word for a jeweler overlay pen, in which its the only one. And the term one off I'm not applying to generic German silver pens, but more first tear solid gold pens.

Also while were taking about Watermans, thanks for thevinfo relating to the True Trunk, but continental safety pens, does the value depend on subject matter? I was just looking at some safety's with interesting aztec motifs, and that apart of design commands a much higher price than a chased continental overlay. Is this apart of statement correct? Subject matter...

[david i]

Thanks David for a great response,

I understand prototype relates more to a company, in which a product is produced and the product is in its early stages, and isn't a good terms for a jeweler pen. I dont know what the perfect word for a jeweler overlay pen, in which its the only one. And the term one off I'm not applying to generic German silver pens, but more first tear solid gold pens.

Also while were taking about Watermans, thanks for thevinfo relating to the True Trunk, but continental safety pens, does the value depend on subject matter? I was just looking at some safety's with interesting aztec motifs, and that apart of design commands a much higher price than a chased continental overlay. Is this apart of statement correct? Subject matter...

Terms in use for pen with overlay applied by jeweler include... jeweler's overlay and/or jeweler-modified.

I don't own and have not dealt in the Italian overlay Waterman Safeties, but I would image intricacy, rarity, quality, theme and metal composition all contribute to value

regards

david

[brando090]

Thanks David for a great response,

I understand prototype relates more to a company, in which a product is produced and the product is in its early stages, and isn't a good terms for a jeweler pen. I dont know what the perfect word for a jeweler overlay pen, in which its the only one. And the term one off I'm not applying to generic German silver pens, but more first tear solid gold pens.

Also while were taking about Watermans, thanks for thevinfo relating to the True Trunk, but continental safety pens, does the value depend on subject matter? I was just looking at some safety's with interesting aztec motifs, and that apart of design commands a much higher price than a chased continental overlay. Is this apart of statement correct? Subject matter...

Terms in use for pen with overlay applied by jeweler include... jeweler's overlay and/or jeweler-modified.

I don't own and have not dealt in the Italian overlay Waterman Safeties, but I would image intricacy, rarity, quality, theme and metal composition all contribute to value

regards

david

Thanks David,

Always a pleasure speaking with a significant figure who knows more than me, one of whom I can learn from.