68 replies to this topic

[brando090]

Having looked at the vintage pens reference, can you determine if there is a Waterman pen identified with the codes 111 and 333? If such pens exist provide the decoded descriptions; if such codes are not plausible, state why.


Farmboy

The 333 was a guess, a really bad guess now seeing why the numbering system was posted :/ The 111, I suppose would be a 212 with a silver barrel overlay, eyedropper, and number 2 nib.

[Procyon]

SNIP

I was recently looking at some pens, and I discovered something that I otherwise would of never knew previously1 to this find. The pen is a Waterman 222 silver eyedropper. The numbering system is odd for this pen, and I've never seen one with such information on it. I've seen pictures, just didn't acknowledge it as a number 222. Now are there Waterman 111's and 333's? When do these pens date from? What are their current values (given these auctions were from some time ago.)

Do try the first sentence again...

regards

david

Got it. Finally!

Really? Where is the corrected version? I am still not sure you understand the problems with your first sentence.

I was recently looking at some pens, and I discovered something that I otherwise would of never of known of previously to this find. The pen is a Waterman 222 silver eyedropper. The numbering system is odd for this pen, and I've never seen one with such information on it. I've seen pictures, just didn't acknowledge it as a number 222. Now are there Waterman 111's and 333's? When do these pens date from? What are their current values (given these auctions were from some time ago.)

Good Lord! Why are you inserting the preposition "of" randomly in between words?

When you initially said "would of never knew" , there are two things wrong. "Would of" is totally incorrect, but does sound a bit like a correct contraction of "would have", which can be written "would've". When pronounced, it should sound more like "would have", but is often slurred a bit, which makes it sound like "would of" sometimes. However, when written, it makes you look like Jethro Bodine on the Beverly Hillbillies - a country bumpkin who just fell off the turnip truck.

The second thing wrong is that "knew" should simply be "known".

I suggest you aim for a local Junior College first. Later you can transfer to the Sorbonne.

[FarmBoy]

SNIP

I was recently looking at some pens, and I discovered something that I otherwise would of never knew previously1 to this find. The pen is a Waterman 222 silver eyedropper. The numbering system is odd for this pen, and I've never seen one with such information on it. I've seen pictures, just didn't acknowledge it as a number 222. Now are there Waterman 111's and 333's? When do these pens date from? What are their current values (given these auctions were from some time ago.)

Do try the first sentence again...

regards

david

Got it. Finally!

Really? Where is the corrected version? I am still not sure you understand the problems with your first sentence.

I was recently looking at some pens, and I discovered something that I otherwise would of never of known of previously to this find. The pen is a Waterman 222 silver eyedropper. The numbering system is odd for this pen, and I've never seen one with such information on it. I've seen pictures, just didn't acknowledge it as a number 222. Now are there Waterman 111's and 333's? When do these pens date from? What are their current values (given these auctions were from some time ago.)

Good Lord! Why are you inserting the preposition "of" randomly in between words?

When you initially said "would of never knew" , there are two things wrong. "Would of" is totally incorrect, but does sound a bit like a correct contraction of "would have", which can be written "would've". When pronounced, it should sound more like "would have", but is often slurred a bit, which makes it sound like "would of" sometimes. However, when written, it makes you look like Jethro Bodine on the Beverly Hillbillies - a country bumpkin who just fell off the turnip truck.

The second thing wrong is that "knew" should simply be "known".

I suggest you aim for a local Junior College first. Later you can transfer to the Sorbonne.

A great example of why Mrs. Caleca said, " There is no place in proper English for contractions."

For the record, Mrs. Caleca [RIP] taught Junior and Senior year English for those that had plans to continue their education beyond the twelfth grade. Now let's hope I have all the punctuation done correctly!

[BrianMcQueen]

Having looked at the vintage pens reference, can you determine if there is a Waterman pen identified with the codes 111 and 333? If such pens exist provide the decoded descriptions; if such codes are not plausible, state why.


Farmboy

The 333 was a guess, a really bad guess now seeing why the numbering system was posted :/ The 111, I suppose would be a 212 with a silver barrel overlay, eyedropper, and number 2 nib.

Try again. Seems to me that a 212 (silver overlay, cone fit eyedropper, and number 2 nib) would be a 212. I don't know where you get the 111 out of this.

[FarmBoy]

Having looked at the vintage pens reference, can you determine if there is a Waterman pen identified with the codes 111 and 333? If such pens exist provide the decoded descriptions; if such codes are not plausible, state why.


Farmboy

The 333 was a guess, a really bad guess now seeing why the numbering system was posted :/ The 111, I suppose would be a 212 with a silver barrel overlay, eyedropper, and number 2 nib.

I am by no means an expert in anything Waterman and in particular early Waterman, but here goes my reading of the reference material.

333. This would not exist since x3x has no meaning though xx3 would indicate a solid gold overlay pen.

111. This would indicate a 1 sized pump filler, from the reference materials the designation would be 111P or 11P. I am unaware of a 1 sized pump filler or a 1 size pen in general.

I would like to hear from any of the Waterman collectors qualified to grade the quiz. It is ok if I do not receive a passing grade.

T

[PatMorgan]

I was recently looking at some pens, and I discovered something that I otherwise would of never knew previously to this find. The pen is a Waterman 222 silver eyedropper. The numbering system is odd for this pen, and I've never seen one with such information on it. I've seen pictures, just didn't know it was named a number 222. Now are their Waterman 111's and 333's? What do these pens date to, and there current values (given these auctions were from time ago). http://www.liveaucti...om/item/1281838

The 'ofs', "theirs", "knews", "whats", "theres" etc,, are a bit headache inducing. If you would, please reformat. I really will take stab at answer, once I can follow the questions. For a guy targeting MIT for school... regards

I'm going totally off the topic of pens here... The Oatmeal has a good guide to some common errors made with written English. It covers the "there, their, they're" confusion particularly clearly. http://theoatmeal.co...ics/misspelling

Increasingly I'm seeing people use "of" when they mean "have." "Could", "would" and "should" are rarely correctly followed by "of" - people usually mean "Could have", "would have" or "should have."

Here is a good description of using "knew" and "known" http://www.bbc.co.uk...new_known.shtml

If Brando090 is using speech-to-text software instead of a keyboard for text input it's possible the software is entering the wrong homonym for the context, though I thought this software was more sophisticated now, and had become capable of dealing with these words.

However, as a general guide, writing simply and clearly is generally better for everyone's understanding. Using lots of words when a few will do doesn't make the writer look more clever, and it doesn't help anyone understand the piece of writing. Using a lot of words, with many used incorrectly really doesn't help anyone understand what's been written! If in doubt about a meaning or the use of a term, look it up, or simplify what you're saying until you are certain you understand the meaning - that way, the reader is also likely to understand your meaning. There's no shame in clear writing.

I appreciate the time spent to get those wonderful English resources. They did help, and I'll be sure to re-use them if I forget how to use some of those words in the correct way.

Brandon

There is a great deal of information at the Oatmeal link. The information is a good refresher for me and invaluable for a student such as yourself. I suggest making it a daily practice to read this resource until the drills are standard. It will help you in high school, college and it will help you later in life. Your choice as to what you plan to do. Perhaps spending more time at honing your basic educational skills rather than researching pens will make a bigger impact on your life financially.

Let's try to keep this short and sweet, as I'm trying to learn about the pen I recently found online.

I definitely will continue to look over that site, and it would help me financially if I was not in this hobby, but than who would buy those pens found in remote corners of the globe...? I enjoy what I do, and I enjoy finding rare pens around the world, or even in my back yard.

We recently changed classes at my school, we have a new program called Maymester, and one of the classes is called "How To Double Your Money In 30 Days." Today I learned about compounding interest, and let me just say... Wow, the money you can start enjoying in your late 50's, early 60's.

Brandon,

Why are you so greedy?

My message about learning how to use the English language properly will help you more in the long run financially than studying pens. Being able to write cohesively with proper grammar, structure and usage will do more for you in the long run than buying pens. People who send resumes to perspective employers which have errors are constantly rejected. When a cover letter is written for a job employers look to see how well a person writes, expresses their ideas, and can think under pressure. It will also help when job applications are filled out. It is the same for college applications. Colleges will reject students with skills that are lacking. It can mean the difference between a great school and a mediocre school for post high school education. In addition, once one gets into college, there are classes which are required and instructors will grade papers accordingly. If the written word is filled with errors or ideas that cannot be expressed properly, a lower grade will be given. When I was in college we had to take 3 required English classes in order to graduate. We took grammar, writing, and advanced writing. I also live in a state where there is a state Board of Regents exam given in the state that is necessary to pass in English in order to graduate. If a student fails, they do not get a diploma. I used to think the exams were a waste of time until I read hundreds of resumes and employment applications. After reading thousands of emails for business correspondence I am thoroughly convinced in the necessity of basic skills for students.

Brandon if your messages here were correspondence for business, you would be ruined very quickly. The skills you put into practice from this very moment on, will assist you for the rest of your life. A high school junior in May should be able to do the work of a high school junior and that includes proper use of the English language for writing. If not, then the student should not pass.

I also need to express that it is important you understand that life situations change very quickly. All it takes is one incident, a freak moment and lives can change drastically. Accidents, companies going out of business, employee errors, family changes, living arrangement changes and whatever else once can think can wipe one's ability to earn a living. We saw what the financial crisis of a few years ago did to the portfolios of people. I know of people who lost their homes, their businesses, and every last dime they had in their savings. An error in a spreadsheet has caused problems for people in this country and the world. http://www.nytimes.c...?pagewanted=all There are seniors who can barely afford to make ends meet working 30 hours at Walmart who stand all that time in severe pain from their arthritis and other conditions. Some of these people were quite comfortable having money in the bank with decent numbers in their savings and the financial crisis along with the trouble it brought with it destroyed their safety nets. Today, these individuals are working for minimum wage with hours cut. If you do not believe me, ask me and I will tell you about people who owned multimillion dollar businesses who today are working in Target and JC Penney and Walmart because it is so difficult to get a job.

I know you want to be a millionaire and live the Shark Tank life. Tell me Brandon, you had to quit school and go to work and live on your own tomorrow with no one helping you financially, could you do it? Would you be able to go school, afford a home, put money in the bank and be able to afford medical insurance, dental insurance, car insurance, and basic necessities to keep going?

[david i]

As an aside, note that compound interest does not do much for one when the rate of interest is 0.4% per year.

regards

david

[brando090]

Having looked at the vintage pens reference, can you determine if there is a Waterman pen identified with the codes 111 and 333? If such pens exist provide the decoded descriptions; if such codes are not plausible, state why.


Farmboy

The 333 was a guess, a really bad guess now seeing why the numbering system was posted :/ The 111, I suppose would be a 212 with a silver barrel overlay, eyedropper, and number 2 nib.

Try again. Seems to me that a 212 (silver overlay, cone fit eyedropper, and number 2 nib) would be a 212. I don't know where you get the 111 out of this.

I was deleting the 333, and stating of a possible 212 pen. The Waterman 111 is shown in the auction, I've never seen one before, so I was curious of current market value.

[PatMorgan]

As an aside, note that compound interest does not do much for one when the rate of interest is 0.4% per year.

regards

david

If one is lucky to even get that amount.

[brando090]

I was recently looking at some pens, and I discovered something that I otherwise would of never knew previously to this find. The pen is a Waterman 222 silver eyedropper. The numbering system is odd for this pen, and I've never seen one with such information on it. I've seen pictures, just didn't know it was named a number 222. Now are their Waterman 111's and 333's? What do these pens date to, and there current values (given these auctions were from time ago). http://www.liveaucti...om/item/1281838

The 'ofs', "theirs", "knews", "whats", "theres" etc,, are a bit headache inducing. If you would, please reformat. I really will take stab at answer, once I can follow the questions. For a guy targeting MIT for school... regards

I'm going totally off the topic of pens here... The Oatmeal has a good guide to some common errors made with written English. It covers the "there, their, they're" confusion particularly clearly. http://theoatmeal.co...ics/misspelling

Increasingly I'm seeing people use "of" when they mean "have." "Could", "would" and "should" are rarely correctly followed by "of" - people usually mean "Could have", "would have" or "should have."

Here is a good description of using "knew" and "known" http://www.bbc.co.uk...new_known.shtml

If Brando090 is using speech-to-text software instead of a keyboard for text input it's possible the software is entering the wrong homonym for the context, though I thought this software was more sophisticated now, and had become capable of dealing with these words.

However, as a general guide, writing simply and clearly is generally better for everyone's understanding. Using lots of words when a few will do doesn't make the writer look more clever, and it doesn't help anyone understand the piece of writing. Using a lot of words, with many used incorrectly really doesn't help anyone understand what's been written! If in doubt about a meaning or the use of a term, look it up, or simplify what you're saying until you are certain you understand the meaning - that way, the reader is also likely to understand your meaning. There's no shame in clear writing.

I appreciate the time spent to get those wonderful English resources. They did help, and I'll be sure to re-use them if I forget how to use some of those words in the correct way.

Brandon

There is a great deal of information at the Oatmeal link. The information is a good refresher for me and invaluable for a student such as yourself. I suggest making it a daily practice to read this resource until the drills are standard. It will help you in high school, college and it will help you later in life. Your choice as to what you plan to do. Perhaps spending more time at honing your basic educational skills rather than researching pens will make a bigger impact on your life financially.

Let's try to keep this short and sweet, as I'm trying to learn about the pen I recently found online.

I definitely will continue to look over that site, and it would help me financially if I was not in this hobby, but than who would buy those pens found in remote corners of the globe...? I enjoy what I do, and I enjoy finding rare pens around the world, or even in my back yard.

We recently changed classes at my school, we have a new program called Maymester, and one of the classes is called "How To Double Your Money In 30 Days." Today I learned about compounding interest, and let me just say... Wow, the money you can start enjoying in your late 50's, early 60's.

Brandon,

Why are you so greedy?

My message about learning how to use the English language properly will help you more in the long run financially than studying pens. Being able to write cohesively with proper grammar, structure and usage will do more for you in the long run than buying pens. People who send resumes to perspective employers which have errors are constantly rejected. When a cover letter is written for a job employers look to see how well a person writes, expresses their ideas, and can think under pressure. It will also help when job applications are filled out. It is the same for college applications. Colleges will reject students with skills that are lacking. It can mean the difference between a great school and a mediocre school for post high school education. In addition, once one gets into college, there are classes which are required and instructors will grade papers accordingly. If the written word is filled with errors or ideas that cannot be expressed properly, a lower grade will be given. When I was in college we had to take 3 required English classes in order to graduate. We took grammar, writing, and advanced writing. I also live in a state where there is a state Board of Regents exam given in the state that is necessary to pass in English in order to graduate. If a student fails, they do not get a diploma. I used to think the exams were a waste of time until I read hundreds of resumes and employment applications. After reading thousands of emails for business correspondence I am thoroughly convinced in the necessity of basic skills for students.

Brandon if your messages here were correspondence for business, you would be ruined very quickly. The skills you put into practice from this very moment on, will assist you for the rest of your life. A high school junior in May should be able to do the work of a high school junior and that includes proper use of the English language for writing. If not, then the student should not pass.

I also need to express that it is important you understand that life situations change very quickly. All it takes is one incident, a freak moment and lives can change drastically. Accidents, companies going out of business, employee errors, family changes, living arrangement changes and whatever else once can think can wipe one's ability to earn a living. We saw what the financial crisis of a few years ago did to the portfolios of people. I know of people who lost their homes, their businesses, and every last dime they had in their savings. An error in a spreadsheet has caused problems for people in this country and the world. http://www.nytimes.c...?pagewanted=all There are seniors who can barely afford to make ends meet working 30 hours at Walmart who stand all that time in severe pain from their arthritis and other conditions. Some of these people were quite comfortable having money in the bank with decent numbers in their savings and the financial crisis along with the trouble it brought with it destroyed their safety nets. Today, these individuals are working for minimum wage with hours cut. If you do not believe me, ask me and I will tell you about people who owned multimillion dollar businesses who today are working in Target and JC Penney and Walmart because it is so difficult to get a job.

I know you want to be a millionaire and live the Shark Tank life. Tell me Brandon, you had to quit school and go to work and live on your own tomorrow with no one helping you financially, could you do it? Would you be able to go school, afford a home, put money in the bank and be able to afford medical insurance, dental insurance, car insurance, and basic necessities to keep going?

Not trying to sound stubborn, nieve, or ignorant, but I think I have pretty good English given my age. I do need to work on some things, learning more complex words (you guys help me out on that), making sure my sentences make grammatical sense, and making sure I don't confuse "their" with "there" which I believe is a common problem. I will work on the last one especially, as it seems to be the biggest problem.

Just to put it out there, I did score in the 99th percentile on the essay writing portion of the ACT.

Regarding the recession of 2009, I understand the devastation that many went through. Some of the biggest banks went into bankruptcy, car company's which America was once dependent on were hit hard and some filed for Chapter 11, and many homeowners and small businesses had to close just to put food on the table.

Regarding the last comment, the answer is easily no. And you read my life pretty good I must say

Edited by brando090, 15 May 2013 - 05:20 AM.

[FarmBoy]

Having looked at the vintage pens reference, can you determine if there is a Waterman pen identified with the codes 111 and 333? If such pens exist provide the decoded descriptions; if such codes are not plausible, state why.


Farmboy

The 333 was a guess, a really bad guess now seeing why the numbering system was posted :/ The 111, I suppose would be a 212 with a silver barrel overlay, eyedropper, and number 2 nib.

Try again. Seems to me that a 212 (silver overlay, cone fit eyedropper, and number 2 nib) would be a 212. I don't know where you get the 111 out of this.

I was deleting the 333, and stating of a possible 212 pen. The Waterman 111 is shown in the auction, I've never seen one before, so I was curious of current market value.

The auction I found had a 222 pen shown. I understood that to be a 2- size taper-cap eye-dropper pen with a silver overlay.

I think my grade is not going to please my mother.

[Procyon]

Having looked at the vintage pens reference, can you determine if there is a Waterman pen identified with the codes 111 and 333? If such pens exist provide the decoded descriptions; if such codes are not plausible, state why.


Farmboy

The 333 was a guess, a really bad guess now seeing why the numbering system was posted :/ The 111, I suppose would be a 212 with a silver barrel overlay, eyedropper, and number 2 nib.

I am by no means an expert in anything Waterman and in particular early Waterman, but here goes my reading of the reference material.

333. This would not exist since x3x has no meaning though xx3 would indicate a solid gold overlay pen.

111. This would indicate a 1 sized pump filler, from the reference materials the designation would be 111P or 11P. I am unaware of a 1 sized pump filler or a 1 size pen in general.

I would like to hear from any of the Waterman collectors qualified to grade the quiz. It is ok if I do not receive a passing grade.

T

Sorry, you get an F.

I am not looking at reference material, but I know the numbering system. 111 doesn't really exist because 1 in the hundreds column doesn't mean anything. A 1 in the tens column actually means a cone cap, but came to essentially mean an eyedrop filler, because at first all of them were eyedrop fillers. The last number is always the nib size - a 1 nib is fairly rare but they do exist.

Does a 333 exist? Well, a 3 in the hundreds spot means a gold covered barrel - not gold filled - that would be a 03xx. However, a 3 in the tens column doesn't mean anything. Again, a 3 in the units column is the nib size, and while a #3 nib is hard to find, they do exist.

So basically, a 111 and a 333 don't really fit Waterman's numbering system.

[brando090]

As an aside, note that compound interest does not do much for one when the rate of interest is 0.4% per year.

regards

david

In this class, we are watching Dave Ramsey videos. The 8-18% interest rates we were equating, we based on mutual funds and stocks that were doing good.

I've always remembered from whatever hobby I was in, that that particular field (antiques, pens, vintage cars) did better (appreciated?) better than the stock market. Yet I learn about compounding interest, I don't think one can beat it.

[PatMorgan]

Not trying to sound stubborn, niece, or ignorant, but I think I have pretty good English given my age. I do need to work on some things, learning more complex words (you guys help me out on that), making sure my sentences make grammatical sense, and making sure I don't confuse "their" with "there" which I believe is a common problem. I will work on the last one especially, as it seems to be the biggest problem.

Just to put it out there, I did score in the 99th percentile on the essay writing portion of the ACT.

Regarding the recession of 2009, I understand the devastation that many went through. Some of the biggest banks going into bankruptcy, car company's which America was once dependent on were hit hard and some filed for Chapter 11, and many homeowners and small businesses had to close just to put food on the table.

Regarding the last comment, the answer is easily no. And you read my life pretty good I must say


Brandon,

Do you want me to be honest with you?

[david i]

Not trying to sound stubborn, niece, or ignorant, but I think I have pretty good English given my age. I do need to work on some things, learning more complex words (you guys help me out on that), making sure my sentences make grammatical sense, and making sure I don't confuse "their" with "there" which I believe is a common problem. I will work on the last one especially, as it seems to be the biggest problem.

Just to put it out there, I did score in the 99th percentile on the essay writing portion of the ACT.

Regarding the recession of 2009, I understand the devastation that many went through. Some of the biggest banks going into bankruptcy, car company's which America was once dependent on were hit hard and some filed for Chapter 11, and many homeowners and small businesses had to close just to put food on the table.

Regarding the last comment, the answer is easily no. And you read my life pretty good I must say

Whose niece are you?

For the record, the English you demonstrate here is abysmal. Whether in other settings you demonstrate a different sort of English, I cannot say. While some people do not speak English natively, and thus are given far more room for error, your mangling of the language is particularly egregious both in setting of English being your native tongue, and in setting of your apparent belief you are employing the language well.

BTW, if you'd like to explore a fellow whose views about easy money were akin to yours, I invite you to search for Ralph Kramden. Perhaps he be a mentor to you.

Too, you should know we have several teen members who demonstrate good writing skills here.

regards

david

[brando090]

We really need some heavy hitter Waterman collectors to chime in... David Nishimura...

Edited by brando090, 15 May 2013 - 05:24 AM.

[brando090]

Not trying to sound stubborn, niece, or ignorant, but I think I have pretty good English given my age. I do need to work on some things, learning more complex words (you guys help me out on that), making sure my sentences make grammatical sense, and making sure I don't confuse "their" with "there" which I believe is a common problem. I will work on the last one especially, as it seems to be the biggest problem.

Just to put it out there, I did score in the 99th percentile on the essay writing portion of the ACT.

Regarding the recession of 2009, I understand the devastation that many went through. Some of the biggest banks going into bankruptcy, car company's which America was once dependent on were hit hard and some filed for Chapter 11, and many homeowners and small businesses had to close just to put food on the table.

Regarding the last comment, the answer is easily no. And you read my life pretty good I must say

Whose niece are you?

For the record, the English you demonstrate here is abysmal. Whether in other settings you demonstrate a different sort of English, I cannot say. While some people do not speak English natively, and thus are given far more room for error, your mangling of the language is particularly egregious both in setting of English being your native tongue, and in setting of your apparent belief you are employing the language well.

BTW, if you'd like to explore a fellow whose views about easy money were akin to yours, I invite you to search for Ralph Kramden.

Too, you should know we have several teen members who demonstrate good writing skills here.

regards

david

Hey David,

I fixed it before anybody replied. Or so I thought...

I'll read up on Ralph later, gotta hit the hay.

[david i]

We really need some heavy hitter Water,man collectors to chime in... David Nishimura...

No, we really don't need heavy hitters for this chat, although anyone of course is invited.

We have seen though how a basic question can be swamped by poor form. And, of course, you were already provided the answer via some links.

regards

david

[brando090]

We really need some heavy hitter Water,man collectors to chime in... David Nishimura...

No, we really don't need heavy hitters for this chat, although anyone of course is invited.

We have seen though how a basic question can be swamped by poor form. And, of course, you were already provided the answer via some links.

regards

david

Well, need/want, both are debatable.

Any idea on value for that pen?

[Procyon]

To paraphrase a drunk Reese Witherspoon, this kid is BEYOND.