34 replies to this topic

[entertainment]

Wonderful, piscov! It is great to see the M400 collar too.

[piscov]

Wonderful, piscov! It is great to see the M400 collar too.

One more thing:

the 3 first nibs have the same feed, the last one already has a plastic one with the horizontal fins

[entertainment]

Here is a pen that has been bothering me. The cap has a metal liner, a pointy clip and a plain band except for a plus sign: +. The stripes on the binde are thinner and more even in color than the ones on an early 400 that I bought from Rick Propas. The binde is engraved near the piston knob. The nib is a script nib and is marked with a plus sign where one would normally find the width designation. The nib collar is all ebonite. The piston knob is marked EF.





What I wonder about is the binde and the meaning of the plus signs (if any).

Even if this pen is a mix of parts, the nib is wonderful, so I am happy.

John

[Jos]

Here is a pen that has been bothering me. The cap has a metal liner, a pointy clip and a plain band except for a plus sign: +. The stripes on the binde are thinner and more even in color than the ones on an early 400 that I bought from Rick Propas. The binde is engraved near the piston knob. The nib is a script nib and is marked with a plus sign where one would normally find the width designation. The nib collar is all ebonite. The piston knob is marked EF.

What I wonder about is the binde and the meaning of the plus signs (if any).

Even if this pen is a mix of parts, the nib is wonderful, so I am happy.

John

Hi John,
I am not sure what bothers you exactly on this pen ... I think that your pen is all original. It is a bit difficult to see but is it a 400N?
It seems to carry the early ('compact line') nib and these nibs are found with and without the nib width imprint. I do not know what the "+" on the nib or cap band means. The "+" imprint on the cap band is quite common though although I generally found it combined with a "Pelikan 400" imprint (on the cap band).

[Josephine]

The shape seems wrong for 400NN, My 400NNs all have pointed piston knobs. Looks like my plain ole 400 green!

[entertainment]

It seems like I am splitting hairs. Here is a picture with the 400 I bought from Rick in the front. I was assuming that the narrower stripes and more regular color would suggest later production. I guess I was wondering if the binde was characteristic of an M400. This binde does not look like the other 400 bindes I have seen--though I admit my experience is limited!

A plus sign is a common part of cap band engraving, but this is a tiny one right on the edge and there is no other engraving. The mark is deep like it was stamped. It is so small, I couldn't photograph it with my set up, although one can just make it out in this photograph at full size.



Josephine, Jos was referring to the interim 400N model rather than the 400NN.

Edited by entertainment, 22 May 2013 - 04:04 PM.

[piscov]

I also think narrower stripes indicate later production and now that you mention, the one on top looks to be later production.... but we must admit some slight differences between production batches...

I have no information about the "+" mark on nibs, but I have seen it in nibs from Pelikan 100N taylorix and in Regular Pelikan 100N.... I have also seen that + on cap rings. I have no idea what it stands for... I would like to know the meaning of the "+" mark... Anyone can help??


About the nib:

I also have some Pelikans 400 with that type of nib (pelikan written in line not in tiny circles). In page 79 of the pelikan book from Dittmer and Lehmann that nib is said to be from 1937/1939 and 1948 /1954.. I don't know if that is a mistake or not, but would explain why early pelikans 400 are often found having that nib. If Pelikan had them available and in excess for the 100N why not use them also in the 400 until the stock ends?? Or maybe this nibs are an aftermarket swap for any reason...

Vasco

Edited by piscov, 22 May 2013 - 04:38 PM.

[Jos]

I also think narrower stripes indicate later production and now that you mention, the one on top looks to be later production.... but we must admit some slight differences between production batches...

...

About the nib:

I also have some Pelikans 400 with that type of nib (pelikan written in line not in tiny circles). In page 79 of the pelikan book from Dittmer and Lehmann that nib is said to be from 1937/1939 and 1948 /1954.. I don't know if that is a mistake or not, but would explain why early pelikans 400 are often found having that nib. If Pelikan had them available and in excess for the 100N why not use them also in the 400 until the stock ends?? Or maybe this nibs are an aftermarket swap for any reason...

Vasco

these are interesting discussions ...

about the binde:
the binde of the 1950s Pelikan 400 pens sometimes had an imprint (such as "Günther Wagner Pelikan 400", "Günther Wagner Germany", ... other variations possible) on the top end of the binde. I think that the 1980s M400 did not have such an imprint. So if the pen above with the narrower stripes has the imprint, my guess is that it is a 1950s barrel?

about the nibs:
I thought that the earliest Pelikan 400 of the 1950s always had the 'compact line' or 'broken line' logo nib and that the 'circle' logo came later in the life of the 400. On the other hand, I also found the circle logo nib on several 100N pens. So my guess is that there was a period in the 1950s in which the three different nib logos (compact line, broken line and circle logo) could be found on the 100N and 400.

Note: the 'compact line' or 'broken line' description of the Pelikan logo comes from Werner Ruettinger's Pelikan website www.ruettinger-web.de/e-pelikan-federn-logo.html

[kaushla]

Another minor difference in detail between extreme right (M400) and second from right (1960s 400NN): the gap between the breather hole and the circle of the Pelikan logo is wider in the M400.

Best wishes,

Kaushla

Great sketch John. Thanks!

Here is a picture I just made to show the same:

[David Nishimura]

The 400 doesn't have a binde. The stripes are in the barrel itself. A binde is the decorative sleeve that fits over the barrel (leaving the ink window uncovered).

[David Nishimura]

The 400 doesn't have a binde. The stripes are in the barrel itself. A binde is the decorative sleeve that fits over the barrel (leaving the ink window uncovered).

[Christof]

Well, technically seen, there is a binde but it's glued permanently to the barrel. It's nearly impossible to seperate without damage either the barrel or the binde.
Christof

Edited by Christof, 09 June 2014 - 06:33 PM.

[Jos]

Hi David,

 

The word 'binde' may be quite confusing because it is commonly used to describe the soft plastic decorative sleeve of the Pelikan 100. However, the 1950s Pelikan 400 pens also had a plastic sleeve, being a rather rigid one, that fitted over a transparent green barrel.

 

I am not sure whether the 400 sleeve is actually glued to the barrel, I think it just fits extremely tightly. I fully agree with Christof that it is very difficult to seperate the 400 sleeve from the barrel without risking damage beyond repair.

 

I once managed to do that though, rather by accident, by leaving a 400 barrel too long in the ultrasonic bath after which I noticed that the sleeve was a tiny bit removed from the barrel. I was quite curious to see whether I could seperate these further so I placed the barrel in a closed container filled with olive oil and placed the container in the ultrasonic bath. The idea was that the oil would penetrate between the sleeve and the barrel helping to seperate them. It did work but I had to wait three days before the sleeve was finally off. A 3 day ultrasonic treatment may well ruin the barrel because the micro hairline cracks that are often seen in Pelikan 400 barrels will definitely develop into genuine cracks when leaving the barrel too long in the ultrasonic bath. Nevertheless, the barrel of my pen survived the ultrasonic treatment well. 

 

Fortunately, I took some pictures of the seperate pieces:

 

[Christof Z]

Very cool! Thanks for sharing this pic.

...actually, I never was able to do this.

Christof

Edited by Christof Z, 10 June 2014 - 09:54 AM.

[soot]

Picture saved for future references. Thank you, Jos!