27 replies to this topic

[welch]

I have been baffled for several years by the assumption, found widely on "another" fountain pen board, that I need:

- waterproof
- bulletproof
- archival
- freeze-proof
- fraud-resistant
- fire-proof
- bomb-proof

inks.

I've lost count of the threads that begin, "I'm a student, so of course I need a water-prooof ink", or "I'm writing a journal for posterity, so the ink must not fade for 300 years". Linked to them, I think, are ink-reviews that sneeringly dismiss an ink as "flees at the approach of water. Others begin, "I live in south Georgia, so humidity causes my hands to smear common ink". (I grew up in Washington, DC, wherfe it gets about as humid as anyplace, and at a time when we were expected to practice our "cursive" writing with a fountain pen. (Mine was a Sheaffer cartridge...less mess)

Why?

Much of this is unwordly amd illogical, or else Parker, Sheaffer, and other ink-makers missed a huge market when the fountain pen was the universal word-procesor. They were large companies, and both Parker and Sheaffer continually looked for a competitive edge. Quink with Solv-x. for instance, should have helped to win WW2 because it would reduce the death of ink-sacs and provide more rubber for the war effort.

This sort of discussion is discouraged in "that other" pen board, for reasons I can't quite understand. Is it that many -- too many -- people there read and believe everything from an on-line pen&ink seller, who believes all the advertising from an ink company that seems to concentrate on saturated water-proof inks? My Dad laughs about someof the weird things he saw in the navy, including fellow-mechanics who forgot to take fountain pens out of their shirt pockets before climbing into the back seat of a dive bomber -- getting flight time toward flight pay, but landing with a shirt full of ink...ibnk that was tough to wash out.

Is there an obsession with water-proof inks?

Why?

[Shadow Wave]

As a student using fountain pens, I did have some accidents where I spilled liquid on class notes, but I can never remember it being so bad that they were illegible, even using Washable Blue Skrip. I can also recall an experience of taking letters to the post office, being caught in a shower, and worrying about having to redo the envelopes -- but it turned out to be not so bad.

On the other hand, can remember a LOT of incidents where indelible or near-indelible inks got on clothes, which were either ruined or took a lot of trouble to launder. And then there are the pens which got stained by said inks.



As to why another board would discourage discussion of ceratin topics, there's a huge thread here speculating about that.


Also, I wouldn't worry about someone reading my writing 300 years from now, since nobody will be able to read cursive a generation hence.

Edited by Shadow Wave, 27 July 2013 - 03:21 AM.

[Rocco P]

I use exclusively fountain pens (which is a silly thing to do, as rollers and ball points are more practical), so I like to carry a waterman eyedropper loaded with iron gall ink, so that I won't have to worry that addresses on envelopes might become unreadable if caught under rain.
Plus, with iron gall inks I can use funky colors even at work, with the happy knowledge they will become boringly black by the time they'll reach my boss.

[AndyR]

I'm self employed and keep old style pen and ink accounts records, one reason being that this is one of the few times I routinely get the chance to use fountain pens and it means I can put the occasional pen related purchase down as a legitimate business expense! However, I live in fear of tipping a cup of coffee over one of my accounts books and I do feel the need to use a more water resistant ink for this to give me a chance to salvage the situation should it occur. I find de Atramentis blue document ink perfect for my accounts work but otherwise, whether the ink is waterproof or permanent or whatever doesn't come into it.

Other thoughts - I would never use anything other than a nice simple washable ink in one of my vintage pens but I also note that, despite the idea of these inks being washable, they never seem to wash out completely if spilt on clothes.

Andy

[cedargirl]

I don't need all my ink to be waterproof. I do like to address envelopes and sign cheques with waterproof ink, so I do make sure I always have at least one bottle available.
It is a need for those people who use it in pen and wash sketching.

I am as baffled as you with the "unfortunately it's not waterproof so it won't make it into my collection" line that I read quite often.

[Inkysloth]

I think it's a love for all things gadgety, and a sense of faux preparedness.

Think of the amount of people who obsessively prepare, document and carry daily a little pack of emergency wilderness equipment. How many of those will genuinely be caught in a zombie apocalypse? But it's fun, and appeals to the slightly nerdy (and I count myself as nerdy) to be so ready. Waterproof ink seems to carry a similar sense of "ready for anything"

There's also a desire to have "the best" possible, even if that's overkill for the task.

If it keeps a small business in trade, that's fine by me! I'll just keep writing my diary with any colour I find attractive, and if it's readable after the fall of our civilisation that's a bonus.

[AeRoberto]

I always have a pen with waterproof ink with me, but it's not because of the waterproof feature, simply I like the ink and the way it behaves with the pen (yes, it's always the same pen with the same ink). But on the other hand (and on the other pen) I use normal ink, and for instance I use Lamy washable blue with Parkers c/c pens.
Basicly I've never faced a situation where I would absolutely need a waterproof/bulletproof ink, apart writing address on envelopes. But I've ruined a couple of shirts with a waterproof ink, never happened such a thing with washable ones.

[Josephine]

I don't have any waterproof ink. So I address all my envelopes with a ball point. Because I've received many a damp limp envelope that if I'd used a fountain pen would have lost the address and ended up being undeliverable. I'd buy a bottle of water proof, but I don't address enough envelopes to keep one pen inked with it forever so it just doesn't make sense.

That's the primary reason for having some waterproof ink in my world.

[David Nishimura]

I think it's a love for all things gadgety, and a sense of faux preparedness.

Think of the amount of people who obsessively prepare, document and carry daily a little pack of emergency wilderness equipment. How many of those will genuinely be caught in a zombie apocalypse? But it's fun, and appeals to the slightly nerdy (and I count myself as nerdy) to be so ready. Waterproof ink seems to carry a similar sense of "ready for anything"

There's also a desire to have "the best" possible, even if that's overkill for the task.

If it keeps a small business in trade, that's fine by me! I'll just keep writing my diary with any colour I find attractive, and if it's readable after the fall of our civilisation that's a bonus.

Nail on the head!
But now I'm wondering how long it will be before we see zombie-proof inks . . .

David

[jonro]

There are three situations were waterproof inks are useful. Envelopes, as have been mentioned before, benefit from waterproof ink. If the address runs, a letter could become undeliverable. As a left-handed overwriter, I have to make sure my hand is dry because it tends to "hit the ink." That's why I also only buy quick drying inks. Finally, there are professions were anything written has to be archival. Accounting, for example. You wouldn't want anyone changing a ledger entry or making it illegible. There are places that have legal requirements to ensure anything written is as permanent as reasonably possible.

[jonro]

Oops.

Edited by jonro, 04 September 2013 - 03:20 AM.

[John Danza]

I don't have any waterproof inks. For envelopes, I use regular FP ink and then rub the area with a block of paraffin that I got at the grocery store about 10 years ago. It protects the address perfectly fine. The paraffin comes in a four pack for use in the canning process and after all this time, I'm still only less than half way through the first block. I guess the one box is a lifetime supply.

[The Good Captain]

As I've mentioned elsewhere, Pelikan 4001 Blue-Black has been perfectly good enough for most of my 'waterproof' needs. More recently, I've added Montblanc Midnight Blue; R&K Salix & Scabiosa; ESSRI; Pilot Blue & Blue-Black and one or two others, to my list.
I still end up with 4001 every time. And I don't use this just because it's waterproof/resistant. One of the best inks I've ever come across.

[BMG]

I have never felt the need for any waterproof/permanent/bullet-proof inks and have subsequently never bought or used any.

 

The various non-eternal inks I have been using have proven long-lasting enough for me.

[alfredop]

I usually do not use permanent inks, but I've a bottle of a such type of ink that I use when at work I need to compile official documents that need to be preserved and not falsified.

As a consequence, from my point of view there is certainly a market for this type of inks; of course when I compile official documents I'm not very concerned about the ink color, it suffices that it is black or blue (blue-black is also ok).

 

Alfredo

[welch]

I usually do not use permanent inks, but I've a bottle of a such type of ink that I use when at work I need to compile official documents that need to be preserved and not falsified.

As a consequence, from my point of view there is certainly a market for this type of inks; of course when I compile official documents I'm not very concerned about the ink color, it suffices that it is black or blue (blue-black is also ok).

 

Alfredo

 

In the financial industry, PDF is the final and "official" document. GE requested that all their banks send monthly account balances as PDF reports...easier to replicate and to store. Imagine the paper and space that saves. At my company, we scan a contract, store it in three or four data centers, and shred the original.

 

There are fancy mathematical ways to tell if a document / message has been altered. That's how cross-border payments are secured.

[93vtQF]

welch, on 26 Jul 2013 - 5:24 PM, said:

My Dad laughs about someof the weird things he saw in the navy, including fellow-mechanics who forgot to take fountain pens out of their shirt pockets before climbing into the back seat of a dive bomber -- getting flight time toward flight pay, but landing with a shirt full of ink...ibnk that was tough to wash out.

 

Then there's the U.S. Navy blue nose ceremony, when you cross the arctic circle longitude, in one case onboard a P-3 Orion while chasing Russian subs, they rub indelible blue ink on your nose that never comes off - until it does.

 

John Danza, on 04 Sept 2013 - 11:33 AM, said:

I don't have any waterproof inks. For envelopes, I use regular FP ink and then rub the area with a block of paraffin that I got at the grocery store about 10 years ago. It protects the address perfectly fine. The paraffin comes in a four pack for use in the canning process and after all this time, I'm still only less than half way through the first block. I guess the one box is a lifetime supply.

 

I remember those 4 packs of paraffin from elementary school when we had to bring one in for a project.

[ac12]

I think it is a group mentality, someone says you need waterproof/bulletproof, then everyone jumps on the bandwagon.

I used Parker washable ink all thru college, undergrad and grad and never once had a situation where my papers got soaked so I could not read the ink.

Then again, I wrote my on filler paper, came home and put the notes into a ring binder.  So I was not carrying my entire semesters notes with me to school. 

If it rains, there is something called a zip-loc plastic bag that you can put your notes into.

Heck you better have a plastic bag for your iPad or laptop.

[Zoe]

Duplicate post error.

Edited by Zoe, 28 October 2014 - 08:05 PM.

[Zoe]

Hope it's all right to revive an older topic, but it is a subject that interests me.

 

As a fountain pen user for years, I never gave a wink to whether ink was waterproof or otherwise, but more recently as I draw with ink(s) the subject got more of my attention.  So for normative writing, I care naught, but for scribbling I cared a great deal.  Swipe some watercolour over ink, and you get rather a mess.

 

I bought a bottle of Document/Archive by De Atramentis recently as it was recommended as "waterproof."  Is it?  Not quite. 

 

This recent purchase has persuaded to give up the notion that there is a ink that does muster both for both a traditional fountain pen and a calligraphy type pen that might warrant something else.