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New one to me. Sheaffer Balance desk pen double band


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#1 Jiffypens

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Posted 24 October 2010 - 11:12 PM

I have seen these in pens and pencils, however not as a desk pen:

http://cgi.ebay.com/...T#ht_500wt_1156

Deus ex Edita: Screen grab courtesy of FPB:

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#2 matt

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Posted 24 October 2010 - 11:26 PM

David's rare double band too...

#3 Jiffypens

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Posted 25 October 2010 - 12:18 AM

The bands are the main reason I posted it, normal pens I have seen, I also have a Sr. balance size pencil, but I have never seen a desk pen with these bands.Posted Image

#4 david i

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Posted 25 October 2010 - 02:43 AM

The bands are the main reason I posted it, normal pens I have seen, I also have a Sr. balance size pencil, but I have never seen a desk pen with these bands.Posted Image




This is a great find. I actually perused the sale, but in my haste missed the double deco barrel band. While I'm casual with Sheaffer 1920's-1930's desk pens and while I don't know with certainty that double cap-band desk pens were not made during the flat-top 1920's era, the presence of the pattern on these bands (vs smooth), puts this pen firmly in the Balance era and off catalogue to boot.

With the usual caveats left unstated, it is possible I have the (or one of the) largest collections extent of off catalogue double and triple band Sheaffer Balances. The spread below shows most of them, but I have acquired bunch more since this image was shot. I won't do the whole "double/triple cap-band" speech for now. Too tired. But, if folks have interest, can pursue a bit down the road.


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I have never seen a double-band desk pen of this sort before. If someone here won it, I'd like to shoot it at some point.

regards

David
David R. Isaacson MD. Website: VACUMANIA.com for quality old pens with full warranty.
Email: isaacson@frontiernet.net

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#5 Roger W.

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Posted 25 October 2010 - 09:22 PM

I've not seen one of these before. I wondered how I missed it - buy it now 4 hours into the auction - smart buyer for feedback of only 24. Even with the discoloration well worth the $75.

This pen goes with a jewelers desk set advertised in October 1931. The sockets are double banded as well! I don't have any of the eight bases that were offered, very rare indeed (four are double banded and four are not banded at all - also very unusual).

Roger W.

#6 david i

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Posted 25 October 2010 - 09:32 PM

I've not seen one of these before. I wondered how I missed it - buy it now 4 hours into the auction - smart buyer for feedback of only 24. Even with the discoloration well worth the $75.

This pen goes with a jewelers desk set advertised in October 1931. The sockets are double banded as well! I don't have any of the eight bases that were offered, very rare indeed (four are double banded and four are not banded at all - also very unusual).

Roger W.




Roger, you have seen the decorative pattern advertised for these?

-david



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Email: isaacson@frontiernet.net

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#7 Roger W.

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Posted 25 October 2010 - 11:01 PM

Roger, you have seen the decorative pattern advertised for these?

-david



David;

Yes, the patterning is shown though the writing does not address it (I assume you are talking about the bands). The two desk bases here are not uncommon in themselves but, double banded sockets are extraordinary.


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Roger W.

#8 david i

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Posted 26 October 2010 - 01:16 AM

David;

Yes, the patterning is shown though the writing does not address it (I assume you are talking about the bands). The two desk bases here are not uncommon in themselves but, double banded sockets are extraordinary.

Roger W.


This is a powerful datum, possibly the only info publicly posted (I wonder how many besides you have even seen it) that illustrates the doube deco bands well more famous (if poorly contextualized) for pocket pens.

Bravo.

-d
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Email: isaacson@frontiernet.net

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#9 Jiffypens

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Posted 26 October 2010 - 01:21 AM

That truly is nice, I have never seen those before!

#10 Kirchh

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Posted 26 October 2010 - 12:58 PM

I would like to add that the 10/8/31 Retailer's Review that Roger refers to not only shows fancy-banded desk pens, but it explicitly separates these (and others with fancy-banded sockets as well as Autograph desk pens) into a separate group designated as being for retailing by jewelers. There is a much larger group of desk sets shown elsewhere that are of the non-fancy-banded variety which would be the usual stationers'/pen shops' stock. Thus the reason I have been comfortable applying the term "jeweler's band" for the fancy-banded Sheaffers (though we don't, of course, know that all such fancy-banded items were always and exclusively offered to or sold through jewelers).

I will also note that this material supports the theory that fancy-banded pens were distinguished by an 'X' prefix in their model symbols. I don't usually engage in (or at least publicize) guesswork, but I wonder if these pens were offered seasonally as gifts for the holidays, and the 'X' is a reference to Christmas. Only a couple of pieces of documentation have surfaced to date, but they are both from the Christmas selling season.

--Daniel

#11 david i

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Posted 26 October 2010 - 10:13 PM

I would like to add that the 10/8/31 Retailer's Review that Roger refers to not only shows fancy-banded desk pens, but it explicitly separates these (and others with fancy-banded sockets as well as Autograph desk pens) into a separate group designated as being for retailing by jewelers. There is a much larger group of desk sets shown elsewhere that are of the non-fancy-banded variety which would be the usual stationers'/pen shops' stock. Thus the reason I have been comfortable applying the term "jeweler's band" for the fancy-banded Sheaffers (though we don't, of course, know that all such fancy-banded items were always and exclusively offered to or sold through jewelers).

I will also note that this material supports the theory that fancy-banded pens were distinguished by an 'X' prefix in their model symbols. I don't usually engage in (or at least publicize) guesswork, but I wonder if these pens were offered seasonally as gifts for the holidays, and the 'X' is a reference to Christmas. Only a couple of pieces of documentation have surfaced to date, but they are both from the Christmas selling season.

--Daniel


Well, it's a start. For the Parker Vacumatic "Jeweler's Band" pens- despite the veritable cornucopia of Parker info available in general- I've seen nothing whatsoever. That we have even this for Sheaffer is something.

-d





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Email: isaacson@frontiernet.net

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#12 Roger W.

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Posted 30 October 2010 - 05:50 AM

The '31 Retailers Review does clearly show double bands but, does it do anything to establish the "jeweler's band". The wide bands shown in the ad are either plain or have small lines that don't show up. Let's go to the ad -

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The copy says that these are "autograph" which indicates to me plain or simply "autograph bands" as we typically call them.

Can I establish this further with actual examples. It's tough as autograph or jewelers bands happen about 1% of the time (in my collection so 1 in 1,000 or worse if you are looking). What we call jewelers bands are shown in the following -

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I got the black one today!

The problem for the '31 ad is that both of these pens are keyed for the 1935-39 dry proof sockets.

So what does a 1931 autograph look like -

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Note the section is shouldered to meet the walls of the socket as they diminish. There is no "inner cap" for the section to rest upon which causes the development of the dry-proof in 1935. So this is the right section. The band is what we expect in an autograph - smooth. So while "Jeweler" is prominant in the ad it does nothing to establish the "Jeweler's Band" as we've come to know it.

The "autograph socket" which is plain black makes a small resurgance in 1938 which is what the new pen belongs to however, it is on a H063 and not on an N118 or S061 as illustrated for that year.

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H063 of 1938 sporting an "autograph socket" - simply has no band which is highly unusual.

Roger W.

#13 Kirchh

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Posted 17 November 2010 - 12:50 AM

The '31 Retailers Review does clearly show double bands but, does it do anything to establish the "jeweler's band". ....

I was using the term "jeweler's band" to refer to the whole class of non-standard bands, not specifically to the wide milled band. My point was that the double chased band (which we cover with the "jeweler's band" mantle) appears on those sets segregated in the jewelers' desk sets section of the flyer. The other sets are clearly Autograph sets (14K smooth bands). I suspect the wide milled band is a later introduction. I speculate that items with the fancier bands, whatever their configuration, were issued as gift items for sale by jewelers in the holiday season each year (at least, for a time), but that's only one notch above a guess at this point.

--Daniel

#14 Roger W.

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Posted 17 November 2010 - 04:10 AM

I was using the term "jeweler's band" to refer to the whole class of non-standard bands, not specifically to the wide milled band. My point was that the double chased band (which we cover with the "jeweler's band" mantle) appears on those sets segregated in the jewelers' desk sets section of the flyer. The other sets are clearly Autograph sets (14K smooth bands). I suspect the wide milled band is a later introduction. I speculate that items with the fancier bands, whatever their configuration, were issued as gift items for sale by jewelers in the holiday season each year (at least, for a time), but that's only one notch above a guess at this point.

--Daniel


Daniel;

Thank you for clarifying that. I had, obviously, taken your statement to be establishing the milled band as the jewelers band (milled) as we call today supported by this advert. I agree with you conceptually that the milled bands were offered through jewelers (especially in light of WA Sheaffer's association with jewelers) and that calling an otherwise unnamed band a jewelers band is likely the most appropriate appelation that we can give it.

Roger W.

#15 david i

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Posted 17 November 2010 - 04:39 AM

Daniel;

Thank you for clarifying that. I had, obviously, taken your statement to be establishing the milled band as the jewelers band (milled) as we call today supported by this advert. I agree with you conceptually that the milled bands were offered through jewelers (especially in light of WA Sheaffer's association with jewelers) and that calling an otherwise unnamed band a jewelers band is likely the most appropriate appelation that we can give it.

Roger W.


So now we are back from "Wide Milled Band" to Jeweler's Band ;)

Roger, this is a productive speculation but caveats abound. The milled band has a much greater prevalence today than any of the other bands under discussion (double, triple, fish-scale). If all were made at limited time of year and for... similar... limited market, even with the possibly longer use of the milled band, I wonder if there are more details in play.

-david





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#16 Roger W.

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Posted 17 November 2010 - 04:52 AM

So now we are back from "Wide Milled Band" to Jeweler's Band ;)

Roger, this is a productive speculation but caveats abound. The milled band has a much greater prevalence today than any of the other bands under discussion (double, triple, fish-scale). If all were made at limited time of year and for... similar... limited market, even with the possibly longer use of the milled band, I wonder if there are more details in play.

-david


David;

Perhaps we need a clearer definition of "Jeweler bands". Should that be an umberella for all special bands outside of autograph bands, covering double, triple and fishscale bands which were probably jeweler offerings as well? Right now I would venture if you say "jeweler band" that will equal in any knowledgable collectors mind the "wide milled" band. Terms are subject to change as we better understand them and your point is well taken. As the other special bands were in all likelyhood jeweler offerings we should probably say wide milled band if that is what we mean specifically. The term jewelers band(s) becomes unneccesary as few will ever talk about the collective of jeweler's band(s). I, therefore, will not be using anything but, "wide milled" band when discussing wide milled bands. I will reserve "jeweler" for the special desk bases covered by the advert previously mentioned as that would be a meaningful subset.

Roger W.

#17 Kirchh

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Posted 17 November 2010 - 02:03 PM

So now we are back from "Wide Milled Band" to Jeweler's Band ;)

Roger, this is a productive speculation but caveats abound. The milled band has a much greater prevalence today than any of the other bands under discussion (double, triple, fish-scale). If all were made at limited time of year and for... similar... limited market, even with the possibly longer use of the milled band, I wonder if there are more details in play.

-david

Fully agree with respect to the caveats, which is why I took pains to characterize my speculation as such, and also I qualified my speculation about Christmas-period offering with "for a time", meaning that perhaps after a few years, non-standard bands were offered for longer periods (including perhaps continuously) and perhaps for multiple years, and also that multiple varieties of non-standard bands may have been offered simultaneously during some periods.

--Daniel

#18 Kirchh

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Posted 17 November 2010 - 02:10 PM

David;

Perhaps we need a clearer definition of "Jeweler bands". Should that be an umberella for all special bands outside of autograph bands, covering double, triple and fishscale bands which were probably jeweler offerings as well? Right now I would venture if you say "jeweler band" that will equal in any knowledgable collectors mind the "wide milled" band. Terms are subject to change as we better understand them and your point is well taken. As the other special bands were in all likelyhood jeweler offerings we should probably say wide milled band if that is what we mean specifically. The term jewelers band(s) becomes unneccesary as few will ever talk about the collective of jeweler's band(s). I, therefore, will not be using anything but, "wide milled" band when discussing wide milled bands. I will reserve "jeweler" for the special desk bases covered by the advert previously mentioned as that would be a meaningful subset.

Roger W.

Though "jeweler's band" may be accurate, I think we all agree it is not yet at the level of conclusively shown. I have used that term for the non-standard bands, but I should perhaps stick with a more abstract designation; I've been using "fancy band", which follows the jewelry convention of referring to any diamond cut other than round, and any color other than white, as a "fancy". So it's a nicer-sounding term than "non-standard", while not implying any facts as does "jeweler's band".

--Daniel

#19 Pedro

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Posted 01 May 2011 - 11:14 PM

This is a great find. I actually perused the sale, but in my haste missed the double deco barrel band. While I'm casual with Sheaffer 1920's-1930's desk pens and while I don't know with certainty that double cap-band desk pens were not made during the flat-top 1920's era, the presence of the pattern on these bands (vs smooth), puts this pen firmly in the Balance era and off catalogue to boot.

With the usual caveats left unstated, it is possible I have the (or one of the) largest collections extent of off catalogue double and triple band Sheaffer Balances. The spread below shows most of them, but I have acquired bunch more since this image was shot. I won't do the whole "double/triple cap-band" speech for now. Too tired. But, if folks have interest, can pursue a bit down the road.


Posted Image

I have never seen a double-band desk pen of this sort before. If someone here won it, I'd like to shoot it at some point.

regards

David


Are there 4 OS Balance in this shot, or are they Full Size?
Pedro
Looking for a Sheaffer OS Balance with a Stub nib and other OS Oddities.

#20 david i

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Posted 02 May 2011 - 03:39 AM

Are there 4 OS Balance in this shot, or are they Full Size?


There are 4 OS Balance pens in that shot.

regards

david





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Email: isaacson@frontiernet.net

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