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Starting a Parker Collection..


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#21 david i

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Posted 29 December 2013 - 08:39 PM

Hi,

 

Hi,

 

I'll start a general mini-collection thread in the Elements of Collecting Forum.

 

Such collections of course need not be complete.  Probably will ask you to show the pens relatively close together, in single shot or montage. You'll see an example.

Beyond that, it is quite open ended.  This board is not very regimented.  A thread is not an article for magazine-- I highly recommend subscribing to the academic PENnant Magazine for solid articles, including mine-- and as such can evolve flexibly and naturally.

 

regards

 

david


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#22 Gary D

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Posted 29 December 2013 - 09:04 PM

 

Edit by Ye Olde Admin:  In his HELLO post, Gary noted an interest in Parker pens.  The Parker question has been split from the original thread for fresh consideration in the Parker Forum.

 

Hey David;

 

I have a five and dime pen - a Keko!  However, I would be interested in starting a collection that can tell a story about the history of Fountain Pens.  I don't know why but I'm not a big fan of Parker.  Any suggestions?

 

Gary

 

Of course I meant Kreko instead of Keko.

 

Gary



#23 Gary D

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Posted 29 December 2013 - 09:13 PM

Hello Gary,

 

I like your idea of starting a collection that can tell the story about the history of fountain pens. As for me, if my own experience is of any use, I would add that the collection should also tell a story about my own life. On top of that, what I demand from pens, either vintage or modern, is that they write well. I don't collect pens that are useless as writers. It doesn't have any sense to me.

 

Taking all that into account, my collection does not include a single brand, but a few of them, mainly Sheaffer, Waterman, Montblanc ... and Parker!!! I've put Parker in bold because, from all the brands mentioned, for me only Parker does fullfill all criteria at the same time. Therefore I have Sheaffer pens from the 1960s (the PFM and the so called "Imperial" line) as I was born in 1960 and they are representative of a period when fountain pens had to be re-invented to compete with ballpoint pens. I have also acquired Waterman pens from the early 1980s, like the LeMan 100, as they were the pens I would have liked to buy when I was at College -but couldn't afford- and, at the same time, they were representative of the rennaisance of fountain pens driven by Wall Street boom and the emergence of the "yuppies" . More recently I've fallen in love with vintage piston filler Montblanc pens from 1935-1955 because apart from being superb writers they are a methafore of the rise, fall and rebird of Germany before, during and after WWII, and a symbol of German engineering. But as for Parker ... I have found reasons to have Parker pens from all periods from 1926 to 1988!!!

 

As I started collecting pens I felt I had to own an iconic Parker Senior Duofold from the 1920s as they were referred to in an article I read in a train from San Sebastian to Madrid which arouse my interest for vintage fountain pens. A black Senior Duofolf and then the more representative orange one were my first acquisitions for my historically-informed collection. Then I went for the pen my dad used when I was a little boy and that fascinated me, particularly because I was forbiden to touch it ;-): a Parker 51. When I tried one at a shop in Madrid I was also deligthed at the way it wrote, and that was my second acquisition. Then I re-discovered the silver made cross-hatched Parker 75. I remember these pens from the time when I was a youngster, though I must confess I was not very much attracted by their look then. I am now. They have a superb design and are extremely comfortable to use. The fact that they are made of solid sterling silver also appeals to me. I have bagged myself a 1st year edition (1964) exemplar which writes smoothly and wonderfully. Then I discovered the Parker Vacumatic, which has no connection with my own personal experiences true, but they are such wonderful pens and were such a landmark in the history of pens. I think we can hardly imagine what people could think of these pens when they were launched in 1933 ... that they were pens from another world I guess!!! I have also included an under-rated 1967 Parker 45 in my collection. These were pens I received as a gift when I was a boy. Maybe they are dissaponting for die-hard vintage pen collector who are mainly attracted by top quality materials and complex filling systems, but they have a nice design and attacked a niche in the sixties and seventies, students who were also the target of ballpoint pens. And finally, my last acquisition, which has not yet arrived to my hands, is a Parker Duofold Centennial, collector's edition, from 1988, the first year of production.

 

As you see, by contrast with other brands, with Parker I've found reasons to acquire pens ranging from 1926 to 1988 ;-)

 

Sorry for the long post. 

 

Best

 

Carlos

Thank you very much for the post Carlos.  The one Parker that I do like are the Duofolds, there's something about them that appeals to me - I'm thinking that might be my next purchase if I see one with a decent price tag.  The Montblanc's that you collect, does it make a difference to you if they are in original condition or completely overhauled?

 

Gary



#24 david i

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Posted 29 December 2013 - 09:13 PM

The Mini Collection thread is up and running

 

Link to Mini Collection Thread

 

 

 

regards

 

David


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#25 Gary D

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Posted 29 December 2013 - 09:15 PM

A few images

 

Parker Vacumatic

 

pen3213sm.jpg

 

Parker Duofold

 

pen2594sm.jpg


Parker 75

 

pen3360sm.jpg

 

Parker 51

 

pen2789sm.jpg

 

 

regards

 

David

What a beautiful Duofold - that's the Parker that does appeal to me and one that I would consider collecting.  I've noticed a number of makers that copy that look.

 

Gary



#26 Gary D

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Posted 29 December 2013 - 09:19 PM

One thing I would suggest is to learn to do simple repairs - polishing, sac replacement, etc.  This will save you a bit of money and provide a lot of satisfaction.  That is one reason I started with vintage Parkers.  They came apart easily, and you could basically disassemble the whole pen by just screwing apart the pieces.  Later on, however, the vacumatic filling system is a little tricky to repair, and you need a few special tools.  Parker Duofolds from the 20's are a good place to start.

 

I would also suggest Waterman's.  These pens stuck with a lever filling system longer than most - making them easy to repair.  Waterman always stuck with things longer than most other manufacturers - hard rubber, lever filling, etc.  These are easy to work on and come in a variety of sizes and models - including many beautiful overlays.  I think it is a good idea to try to round out mini-collections, such as trying to get all colors of a certain model. 

Thanks for the advice Allan - makes total sense and is a great way to really get to know a "fountain pen" when one takes it apart.

 

Gary



#27 david i

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Posted 29 December 2013 - 09:20 PM

 

A few images

 

 

 

Parker Duofold

 

pen2594sm.jpg


 

 

regards

 

David

What a beautiful Duofold - that's the Parker that does appeal to me and one that I would consider collecting.  I've noticed a number of makers that copy that look.

 

Gary

 

 

The Duofold "Big Red" is iconic.  Of course, most makers at the time turned out cylindrical flat-end pens, but Parker's Duofold no doubt influenced the evil opposition

 

regards

 

david


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#28 Gary D

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Posted 29 December 2013 - 09:24 PM

 

I think it is a good idea to try to round out mini-collections, such as trying to get all colors of a certain model.

I think, this is a great advice: I just love mini-collections, or sub-collections as I call them. I also like to photograph them as a group.
Here my Duofolds:

6992219787_0d9e0b5208_b.jpg

And here my Gray Vacumatics:

7453177176_385c3d98bb_b.jpg

And a range of "51"

7194192604_20d9787a2a_b.jpg

Parkers in the same color...and so on...

10593555666_9a793502df_b.jpg

...these are no Parkers, but one of my favourite, sub-collections

11631107363_110e254729_b.jpg


Christof

 

Christof;

 

Thank you and thank you.  The only thing that really turned me off of Parker were the 51's for some reason - that's just me.  However, WOW, those Duofold's are one nice fountain pen and your Vacumatic's are stunning!  Typically, in what condition are these pens when you purchase them?  Once again, thanks for the post and what a great collection.

 

Gary



#29 Idazle

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Posted 29 December 2013 - 09:27 PM

My pleasure Gary.

 

The Montblanc's that you collect, does it make a difference to you if they are in original condition or completely overhauled?

 

 

As a general principle, it does make a difference to me whether a pen is or not in original condition. All my Parkers and Sheaffers are in mint original condition. My red 1926 Senior Duofold certainly is. However, when talking of vintage MB I feel I have to relax that rule as most pens from the late 1930s and 1940s have been reassembled from parts either during the harsh war and post-war times or recently by unscrupulous dealers. Of course there are vintage MB pens in original condition, but it is difficult to tell them apart and they generally come at high prices.


Edited by Idazle, 29 December 2013 - 09:59 PM.


#30 david i

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Posted 29 December 2013 - 09:31 PM

Hi Gary,

 

Typically, in what condition are these pens when you purchase them?  Once again, thanks for the post and what a great collection.

 

 

I won't speak for Christolf,  but in the general case pens can be found anywhere from mint-stickered to trashed, badly repaired, mixed-parts, etc.

 

That's part of the charm and challenge of collecting old pens, and it is not-- unfortunately-- something to be dismissed lightly. Hunting quality-- I assert-- is one of the core lessons in collecting old pens.   There is nothing wrong with buying trashed pens to be affordable users, but one wants to make sure he buys then with the appropriate discount.

 

The things we discuss today are 50-90 years old.  Frankly, it is amazing any of them remain.  Many were well used.   Many quality old pens cost a couple weeks (or more) of salary at minimum wage. People used the pens for a decade or more, having them tweaked and repaired at fountain pen hospitals throughout the country.  They were not bought to store in display cases on the shelf, perhaps never opened so as to protect the imagined cachet of the Sealed Outer Box.

 

regards

 

d


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#31 Gary D

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Posted 29 December 2013 - 09:35 PM

My pleasure Gary.

 

The Montblanc's that you collect, does it make a difference to you if they are in original condition or completely overhauled?

 

 

As a general principle, it does make a difference to me whether a pen is or not in original condition. All my Parkers and Sheaffers are in mint original condition. My red 1926 Senior Duofold certainly is. However, when talking of vintage MB I feel I have to relax that rule as most pens from the late 1930s and 1940s have been reassembled from parts either during the harsh war and post-war times or recently by unscrupulous dealers. Of course there are vintage MB pens in original condition, but is difficult to tell them apart and they generally come at high prices.

I have heard of individuals sending their pens to MB for adjustments of some sort and to have the pen returned to them completely overhauled including new barrels etc.,  I don't know how old the sac is in my 206 and I really don't have the means to do it myself so I'm thinking of just sending it in to ensure the sac is good.

 

 

The red 1926 Senior Duofold is sweet and is a pen that I would definitely consider.  The colour is awesome, mainly because it rubs against the traditional black or darker colours I see for pens in that era.  I'm new at this so maybe I haven't seen enough pens to make that assumption.

 

Gary



#32 david i

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Posted 29 December 2013 - 09:42 PM

I would suggest not sending old MB's to MB.  There are focused restorers who do work on the long out of production pens.

 

As an aside, if you want a clean restored guaranteed Parker Duofold Senior in red, I have a bunch, including some freshly back from the restorers, though I caution that I am a retailer of old pens , so these won't be bargains ;)

 

regards

 

david


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#33 Idazle

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Posted 29 December 2013 - 09:52 PM

I have heard of individuals sending their pens to MB for adjustments of some sort and to have the pen returned to them completely overhauled including new barrels etc.,  I don't know how old the sac is in my 206 and I really don't have the means to do it myself so I'm thinking of just sending it in to ensure the sac is good.

 

 

The red 1926 Senior Duofold is sweet and is a pen that I would definitely consider.  The colour is awesome, mainly because it rubs against the traditional black or darker colours I see for pens in that era.  I'm new at this so maybe I haven't seen enough pens to make that assumption.

 

Gary

 

 

Gary, I've heard the same thing. In fact ever since I got an interest in MB pens from the 1960s and 1970s I have been able to see myself how hard rubber feeds or original valuable 14C or 18C nibs from that era have been ruthlessly replaced with modern parts by MB after sale service. My advice is that you look for a good repairman in the USA to fix your 206. I'm sure in this Forum you'll be pointed to some of these experts. It'll be safer than sending the pen to the MB official repair service and surely cheaper too.

 

With regard the red Duofold I entirely agree with you. That tangerine red scarlet tanager colour should have been a revolution back in the 1920s, and the fact that it had such a good reception speaks of the apetite for new designs of that era. This is my Big red:

 

gallery_80555_350_120337.jpg


Edited by Idazle, 30 December 2013 - 09:16 PM.


#34 AeRoberto

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Posted 29 December 2013 - 10:26 PM

Starting a Parker collection is quite easy, you can find tons of pens in decent condition on markets and on the internet. From which model to start it's different, my first vintage pen was a Vacumatic, and this was the first pen I've ever repaired (ok, actually we can't talk of repair, at most it's a resack), soon other Vacs followed, and 75s, and 51s, then I discovered Sheaffers, etc. etc. but probably the best first pens to start a collection are the 75s, it's not difficult to determine the condition of the pen by the (usually blurry) photos on internet, and there are no hidden parts or filling mechanisms to repair.



#35 Gary D

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Posted 30 December 2013 - 12:06 AM

 

I have heard of individuals sending their pens to MB for adjustments of some sort and to have the pen returned to them completely overhauled including new barrels etc.,  I don't know how old the sac is in my 206 and I really don't have the means to do it myself so I'm thinking of just sending it in to ensure the sac is good.

 

 

The red 1926 Senior Duofold is sweet and is a pen that I would definitely consider.  The colour is awesome, mainly because it rubs against the traditional black or darker colours I see for pens in that era.  I'm new at this so maybe I haven't seen enough pens to make that assumption.

 

Gary

 

 

Gary, I've heard the same thing. In fact ever since I got an interest in MB pens from the 1960s and 1970s I have been able to see myself how hard rubber feeds or original valuable 14C or 18C nibs from that era have been ruthlessly replaced with modern parts by MB after sale service. My advice is that you look for a good repairman in the USA to fix your 206. I'm sure in this Forum you'll be pointed to some of these experts. It'll be safer than sending the pen to the MB official repair service and surely cheaper too.

 

With regard the red Duofold I entirely agree with you. That tangerine red colour should have been a revolution back in the 1920s, and the fact that it had such a good reception speaks of the apetite for new designs of that era. This is my Big red:

 

gallery_80555_350_120337.jpg

 

Beautiful!  And this is the history that I have referred to earlier - what inspired a colour such as this? What was going on at that time in areas such as fashion, etc.  Again, what a nice pen.  On another note - my wife has become quite savvy at figuring out that I'm about to purchase something when she sees a theme of what I'm looking at on my laptop!  If she were to see a pen as distinctive as this she would automatically give the evil eye!  lol 

 

Gary



#36 Gary D

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Posted 30 December 2013 - 12:08 AM

Starting a Parker collection is quite easy, you can find tons of pens in decent condition on markets and on the internet. From which model to start it's different, my first vintage pen was a Vacumatic, and this was the first pen I've ever repaired (ok, actually we can't talk of repair, at most it's a resack), soon other Vacs followed, and 75s, and 51s, then I discovered Sheaffers, etc. etc. but probably the best first pens to start a collection are the 75s, it's not difficult to determine the condition of the pen by the (usually blurry) photos on internet, and there are no hidden parts or filling mechanisms to repair.

When collecting Parker's are there many counterfeits to watch out for?  Particularly the Duofolds?

 

Gary



#37 david i

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Posted 30 December 2013 - 12:10 AM


When collecting Parker's are there many counterfeits to watch out for?  Particularly the Duofolds?

 

Gary

 

 

There really were not until recently. There have been some fakes coming from South Korea, but limited.  There have been remarkable repros made by people including Chris Thompson, generally marked as replicas.

 

regards

 

d


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#38 piscov

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Posted 30 December 2013 - 12:34 AM

Gary,

 

Is the MB 206 filling? If so do not bother to check the sac, it should be ok.

 

Don't send that 206 to MB, they don't have the parts and probably not even the skills for that sort of repair. It is rather easy and you can do it yourself.

 

I have some 206 and I can do a photo manual showing how to open it and change the sac. You will only need to buy a sac and some shellac. If you are in US David Nishimura can help you, if you are in Europe, Peter Twydle can help you herethere also.

 

Let me know if you need help


Best regards
Vasco

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#39 david i

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Posted 30 December 2013 - 12:36 AM

Rick Propas might do some MB work, and he probably can connect with Osman, if not.

 

regards

 

david


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#40 piscov

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Posted 30 December 2013 - 12:56 AM

My pleasure Gary.

 

The Montblanc's that you collect, does it make a difference to you if they are in original condition or completely overhauled?

 

 

As a general principle, it does make a difference to me whether a pen is or not in original condition. All my Parkers and Sheaffers are in mint original condition. My red 1926 Senior Duofold certainly is. However, when talking of vintage MB I feel I have to relax that rule as most pens from the late 1930s and 1940s have been reassembled from parts either during the harsh war and post-war times or recently by unscrupulous dealers. Of course there are vintage MB pens in original condition, but it is difficult to tell them apart and they generally come at high prices.

 

Carlos:

 

Why do you say that vintage 30-to 50´s MB are more prone to be found already altered than any other brand?

 

I don't agree with that statement. From my experience all brands have the exact same problem and most pens do not arrive to me altered. On top of that if a pen does need a replacement part as long as an exact original, similar and same age replacement part is used the pen will remain original.  Some arrive needing repair and I do some of those repairs myself and have professionals do others, but I have never noticed that MB pens arrive to me more tweaked that any other brand and 99% of them arrive in all original condition.

 

Pelikan, Sheaffer, Parker, Montblanc, Kaweco... all other are in the same circumstances regarding to vintage findings in my opinion, most need repair of any kind ( mostly sacs, gaskets, corks, pistons repair or with cap lip cracks) but the vast majority arrives with all parts correct and original.


Best regards
Vasco

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