26 replies to this topic

[david i]

An interesting Balance showed up on ebay.

 

Thoughts?

 

 

 

regards

David

 

 

 

[Rocco P]

I am as far removed from a Balance expert as is possible to be, but I'll bite.

The white dot was damaged and had to be - expertly - replaced by someone who had easier access to greenish celluloid than white one?

[FarmBoy]

It has been de-dotted or un-lifetimed. One could propose this was a repair due to a lost dot or a deliberate action taken to use existing factory stock that was to no longer posess a life-time (the white dot or the blue diamond) warranty.

Perhaps a more elegant solution than drilling the gold seal.

Todd

[Fred H]

Did lifetime warranties end during the Balance era?

 

Fred

[piscov]

I am with Paolino... the repair guy had readily available a bit of green celluloid and didn't had the correct white one...

 

What is your point of view David?

Did you get the pen?

[BMG]

In the pic it appears that the celluloid of the "green dot" matches that of the cap (the lighter color of the one aligns with the other).

[AeRoberto]

I agree with Todd, I don't think it was a repair, most probably a factory intervention.

[AZuniga]

I do not know much about Sheaffer's but I have another example related to the dot and I thought it would be the place to include it...

I believe it is from the factory, and one of the dots is not really white but let's say "clear"

 

 

[David Nishimura]

Ariel, those White Dots I find very elegant, as they are inlaid using a partially translucent ivory colored celluloid, looking something like the old Montblanc stars. Maybe not bright enough for consumers of the era, though, since they seem to have been replaced by opaque bright white dots rather quickly.

[AZuniga]

Ariel, those White Dots I find very elegant, as they are inlaid using a partially translucent ivory colored celluloid, looking something like the old Montblanc stars. Maybe not bright enough for consumers of the era, though, since they seem to have been replaced by opaque bright white dots rather quickly.

Thanks for the information... I find them very elegant too, although I have nothing against the bright white dot either

[PatM]

David I - what nib is in the pen?  Haven't been able to track it down yet on ebay.

 

Thanks,

Pat

[david i]

David I - what nib is in the pen?  Haven't been able to track it down yet on ebay.

 

Thanks,

Pat

 

Hi Pat,

 

I can find again, though probably not until tomorrow. If you do an Advanced Search and hit Seller (since "Buyer" no longer pops up at first) and THEN hig Buyer which does pop up on the left while it asks for seller name (go figure...), enter Kirchh for the Buyer name, and ask for sold items. Daniel won it recently.

 

I'll hunt otherwise if not tonight then tomorrow.

 

Glad to see you peeking in here.

 

For those who don't know Pat, he is the reason I usually describe my off-catalogue cap-band Sheaffer Balance collection as "One of the 1-2 most comprehensive extent" rather than just the "most comprehensive out there"   

 

One day we shall have to count...

 

And, yes, I realize I have not seen every private collection out there. A bit of provocation adds spice to life.

 

Of note, I did pick up something interesting  just tonight on ebay..   I have hope the clip is just tarnished, which I suspect, and not brassed. Look at my newly bought Balance.

 

Link to the gray red Ebay  Balance with funny dot.

 

 

regards

 

d

[david i]

Pat, I found the pen Daniel won on ebay.  Here is the direct auction link. Pen has a 3-25 nib

 

 

Link to the de-dotted/re-dotted Marine Green Balance from Daniel's Ebay Auction

 

regards

 

David

[Mike Hosea]

I wonder if the brassing on the top of the clip is related to the situation.

[david i]

Probably time now to launch my own comments about the pen. Others' views remain, of course, invited. I've enjoyed reading the various views offered so far.

 

The pen indeed appears to be, depending on how one looks at it, either:

 

• de-dotted
• re-dotted

or....

• differently dotted.

Go figure.

 

  it looks as though the space for the dot had been  drilled (assuming that is how such space was made), but instead of containing white plastic it was filled with a  cut piece of  matching plastic.  Why do that in the first place?  After all, had a hole for the dot not been drilled at all, it would have matching plastic there for well less hassle and with better match!

 

Was this a glitch, someone at factory started to drill for the dot, only to find out the pen should be no-dot with plan for a non-Lifetime nib, marking a lower tier version? The lower priced pens with in this size with  "3-25" (later, #3 ) nibs have thinner cap-band as well though. This one to my eye has the wider band of the Lifetime/White-Dot pen.  And, based on other parts lists I've seen for other pens (Have I seen one for Balance?  Maybe...) caps were pretty cheap. 

 

If this pen had accidentally had a hole drilled and... again... accidentally had the wide band put on it, it would not look like a proper 3-25 (third tier) pen d/ that wide band, so  then why fill a cap hole for a white dot with matching plastic (probably not pre-cut and lying in piles like White Dots), vs using another cap and letting this cap be used for a White Dot pen?  It's not like Sheaffer was making just one last pen, right?  Those would be   many accidents and too much hassle I suspect.

 

Pens were returned for repairs no doubt, but I've never heard (which is not proof of anything)  of a warranty being voided for future work by drilling out (no small task) and replacing the White Dot, while also then given a lower tier nib which would require a section swap to hold the narrower nib in place. Again, too much hassle and perhaps no evidence available of such a policy.

 

Late repair I suppose is possible, but barring something crazy being done by one of today's Torrellis or Zorns, to get that perfect match in contour would seem to me (a non-restorer) to be a heck of a great hassle.

 

It might have been Todd who suggested or implied late-parts-blow-out. If Sheaffer wanted to let a pen go  say in 1940 (this color ended years earlier), and had a pile of drilled caps without dots in them"yet" and had lower tier nibs in a pile, and thus wanted to sell the pen as a non-WHite-Dot, akin perhaps to Wahl Gold Seal pens sold with cheaper nib and with a drilled Gold Seal, then this might have been done at factory.  Strikes me as no small hassle  again, and even then I might expect a later #3 nib rather than an early 3-25 nib. But, this remains possible.

 

I have seen some non-White-Dot FLAT-TOPS (generally earlier model than Balance, though not always)  that appear  to have plugs of matching plastic making a small circle where a White Dot might have gone, unless we are seeing just a trimming marked placed before a hole was cut, one which in fact never was cut out.  Some Service Pens if I recall correctly.

 

I have trouble considering this an accident, someone grabbing wrong plastic at factory, because there would not (one imagines) be a pile  of matching plugs lying about, while there would be white plugs present to make the dots.

 

I do wonder about "just for fun", along the axis of the infamous Lunchtime Special. An employee doing it with or without direction just to see...

 

regards

 

David

[david i]

I do not know much about Sheaffer's but I have another example related to the dot and I thought it would be the place to include it...

I believe it is from the factory, and one of the dots is not really white but let's say "clear"

 

 

 

 

I do not know much about Sheaffer's but I have another example related to the dot and I thought it would be the place to include it...

I believe it is from the factory, and one of the dots is not really white but let's say "clear"

 

 

 

 

 

Ariel, those White Dots I find very elegant, as they are inlaid using a partially translucent ivory colored celluloid, looking something like the old Montblanc stars. Maybe not bright enough for consumers of the era, though, since they seem to have been replaced by opaque bright white dots rather quickly.

 

 

 

Interesting. I hadn't had awareness of  a trend toward more subdued dots during the late Balance (presumably into Triumph) era.  Time to go back and look at some pens.

 

Regarding the White Dots, I'll toss out the observation (there have been prior chats) that getting into the early Touchdown era (1949-50) the dots used do appear sensitive to color bleed. Burgundy pens in particular turn up with pinkish dots.

 

regards

 

david

[PatM]

I've seen enough of the "plugged" dots to not think it was done by an employee on a lark, but to come up with a definitive answer is tough.  As David notes, there are a lot of possibilities.  I do find the variation among the "white" dots to be interesting, something to which I'll have to pay more attention.

 

With respect to the red-veined gray balance that David I. just purchased, I will be interested to learn how the dot became black/discolored and the clip tarnished/blackened.  I have seen that done on military clip pens and was told, long ago, by a retired WWII military officer that the shine on pen clips was reduced/removed by some in the military to avoid something in a pocket or in use that would pick up reflection or glare.  I don't have any evidence on that other than the anecdotal which seemed to make sense at the time I was told.

 

Best,

Pat

[Greg Minuskin]

Can I throw my hat into the discussion?

 

Is there a distinct possibility that the pen left the factory with a white dot, yet the retailer, hoping to bank on the larger gold nib of the pen, would cover up the dot/remove and plug, and install a lesser nib, thereby creating a whole pen, but with not the white dot/and nib originally supplied?

 

Rolex did this often in the 1960's with delivery of PX Submariners costing a fraction of what they cost in the States/Switzerland; instead of the 25 jewel 1520 movement, a brass bushing 17 jewel 1520 movement was installed, and sold for 2/3 the price at the PX stores.

 

Canadian market also had "sub tier" Date dress models, again, same quality case, but the movement is of lesser quality.

 

Greg Minuskin

www.gregminuskin.com

greg@gregminuskin.com

[david i]

Hi Greg,

 

Most things are possible, and clearly there is some creative hypothesizing in play in this thread

 

I have some doubts on your proposal, mainly because the time/hassle/skill  cost for a dealer to remove a white-plug without destroying pen, then shaping a replacement celluloid piece from what would have to be donor plastic, then making a perfect and essentially seamless fit, would- in my view- be prohibitive,  especially when the dealer could get from Sheaffer as a routine and catalogued model, exactly what you describe, a non-White-Dot, non-Lifetime-Nib version of this pen. Sheaffer offered several tiers of largely identical Balance pens, separated by price, presence/absence  of white dot, width of trim ring, style nib and so forth. At some point, some pens might  have offered five different tiers, at five different prices, all looking generally the same.

 

regards

 

David

[BMG]

Ariel, those White Dots I find very elegant, as they are inlaid using a partially translucent ivory colored celluloid, looking something like the old Montblanc stars. Maybe not bright enough for consumers of the era, though, since they seem to have been replaced by opaque bright white dots rather quickly.

 

IIRC, those older, "ivory" Montblanc stars were made of casein, and were at some point replaced by brighter white (plastic?) ones. You can also see the bright white ones on some of the '50s-era 3XX series, whereas those of the 2XX series were still the ivory-colored.

Edited by BMG, 31 December 2013 - 08:16 AM.