9 replies to this topic

[soot]

Does anyone know the pattern on this Waterman safety? Vine, Oriental, Hand engraved, or what? I am confused.

 

 

 

Thanks in advance!

 

-- Bob

Edited by soot, 12 January 2014 - 08:57 PM.

[david i]

Hi Bob,

I do essentially nothing with the euorolay Watermans, though eventually I must own a a couple, but that pattern at least evokes the Hand Engraved Vine

 

regards

 

david

[soot]

David, you are fast! At least I know it's some sort of hand engraved vine now. Thanks!

[david i]

Hi,

 

Well, don't take me on this one as a 'know', but that is what I think I see

 

regards

 

david

[david i]

Hi,

 

Well, don't take me on this one as a 'know', but that is what I think I see

 

IIRC Waterman_USA also had a Etched pattern that looks  a bit similar.

 

regards

 

david

[David Nishimura]

The pattern is "Etched". "Hand Engraved Vine" was a more expensive pattern, but I find "Etched" much more attractive. HEV was offered on a greater number of models. Some photos are on my Waterman Overlay Patterns page; this is one topic I need to expand upon there.

 

The pen in the OP certainly does not appear to be European. The term "continental safety" is one that should be retired. "Continental" was/is the term used in the Anglo-American antiques trade to lump together anything from continental Europe for those who couldn't tell (or couldn't be bothered to tell) the difference between French, Spanish, Italian, etc. "Continental safety" was the parallel usage in early pen collecting to refer to a group of safeties with fancy overlays that were not English or American -- and in fact, pretty much all of them were actually Italian (for some reason German overlay safeties were never called "continental safeties", though some French safeties were/are so labeled).

[soot]

The pattern is "Etched". "Hand Engraved Vine" was a more expensive pattern, but I find "Etched" much more attractive. HEV was offered on a greater number of models. Some photos are on my Waterman Overlay Patterns page; this is one topic I need to expand upon there.

 

The pen in the OP certainly does not appear to be European. The term "continental safety" is one that should be retired. "Continental" was/is the term used in the Anglo-American antiques trade to lump together anything from continental Europe for those who couldn't tell (or couldn't be bothered to tell) the difference between French, Spanish, Italian, etc. "Continental safety" was the parallel usage in early pen collecting to refer to a group of safeties with fancy overlays that were not English or American -- and in fact, pretty much all of them were actually Italian (for some reason German overlay safeties were never called "continental safeties", though some French safeties were/are so labeled).

 

Thank you, David! This is very informative and good to know. How exactly do you distinguish the difference between the American/English made safety overlays with those European ones?

 

Thanks! Bob

 

**Thread title has been edited for correction.

[David Nishimura]

Assuming we're talking now about Waterman safeties with overlays, we can divide them into a few basic categories. There are the standard USA overlay patterns which were also exported. There are patterns that are similar to the standard USA patterns, but with differences, the overlays being factory-supplied and very possibly USA-made. Then there are the patterns that are nothing like those in the previous categories, which were made by multiple subcontractors who also did an active business supplying similar or identical patterns of overlays to other companies.

 

The last category describes the great majority of Italian Waterman safeties.

The second category describes nearly all French, English, and Spanish-market Waterman safeties.

 

Quite aside from their patterns, the markings are different depending on where the pens were sold.

[Penprophet]

David N:  Didn't the etched design also refer to the silver acid etched pens as well??

 

Mark

[David Nishimura]

Yes indeed -- Waterman reused the "Etched" name, though with a gap of several years.