30 replies to this topic

[TimGirdler]

All right Rev Tim.  What is it the world wonders?

Jerry

 

It isn't that it's a trade secret....  But, those who use it encourage one another to keep it secret-ish because of its volatility.

 

Yah, Ron uses the evil stuff. It is pretty evil.  Think I first heard about it 8 years ago. I blank on the fellow's name, but for a bit he was aggressively selling "Depression pens" on ebay.

 

regards

 

d

 

As far as how nasty it is....  It's pretty bad.  "Dr. I" could probably tell us more of the dangers to humans, as far as respiration and contact.  It is used in a well-known compound that has likely been used in your house in some form or another, but that doesn't mean it's safe.  Until I get a respiration mask, I can only use it in REALLY small bursts--and I have to hold my breath for a considerable amount of time.  Having been a trumpet player for most of my life, I can hold my breath longer than most.  Thankfully, I have my workshop in a rather large room, and it is well ventilated.  If I was working in a confined space, I simply would not be able to use it at all--without a mask or ventilation hood.

 

Amazingly, I found it on a website and could get it.  But, really, it's only used on celluloid.  For acrylics, I use another substance that is also quite nasty (but, perhaps not as protected a secret).  But my acrylic solvent had to come via UPS ground, because it could not be sent through the air.  Almost everything I mentioned about the celluloid nasty-stuff applies to the acrylic stuff, too.

 

For one thing I use MEK, and I got my MEK at a model shop (so, I think it has glue in it also).  When I fix the older Laban Mento pens, I have to make a new inner cap that is inserted into the existing (and quite inadequate) inner cap.  I use polystyrene and my modeler-shop MEK.  So far it's worked well.

 

All that said, I have considered buying a large fire-proof document safe to store the several bottles of nasty stuff in....  But, the greater question there is what problems, if any, would all of those nasty things bring to each other in a closed space. 

 

Considering that the celluloid stuff is used in that nasty, but common, compound I referred to earlier, and the people who work with it don't have to wear hazmat suits to do their jobs, I think the danger is more an improper and careless use--not simply exposure (though the fumes can bring dizzy-ness and general loopy-ness).  And, of course, it's highly flammable.

 

If you should happen to find out the substance, please don't spread it around (you've seen what happens when people think themselves to be nibmeisters because they think nibs can be smoothed with a brown paper bag!!!???), and, certainly, be careful with it.

 

Blessings,

 

Tim

 

EDIT:  A bit of spelling.

Edited by TimGirdler, 12 February 2014 - 09:16 AM.

[TimGirdler]

 

You need a vapor hood or a very well ventilated area. I will probably use it outside.I have been taught the proper method for using it, and have tried it before. 

 

Your biggest risk in the present context is fire hazard after accidental spillage, I would think.  Otherwise, there's exposure and then there's exposure.  I haven't had any significant uses for MEK since I was into model building as a kid.  However, I researched acetone when I was using it to clean optics.  For some reason, people think acetone is highly toxic and don't want to moisten a Q-tip with it to clean an eyepiece lens on that account.

 

 

The thing is with acetone....  It's nail polish remover.  It works well for cleaning schmutz off of certain rubberish implements and tools before using them.  It is volatile, but exposure isn't likely to be a problem--since ladies can and do soak their hands in the stuff to take off acrylic nails.

 

It is a solvent, of course, but MEK is supposed to be so much better and the other stuff we've been coy about mentioning is much better than the MEK.

 

Caution, though, with everything is a great practice.

 

Blessings,

 

Tim

[piscov]

Acetone works for me in Celluloid, especially if I mix it before with shaves of celluloid  I get from machining a similar piece of celluloid. It becomes more gel like and can be used to fill voids or fill larger cracks after they are welded only by using the acetone. The only problem I face sometimes is air bubbles in he mixture, so I need to use it in very thin layers and let it cure for 2 days before the next  layer. Acetone is not really dangerous, it is used to take the nail polish fro ladys nails as Tim already wrote, I just use the pure one, not the scented and colored one you can find in most places for as nail polish remover.

 

Acrylic as been a problem for me, I don't have MEK, need to source it yet.

 

Chloroform is also used in the acrylic industry to weld, even to weld fish tanks. Is this the evil stuff you are talking about?? It is volatile, can put you to sleep but is not flammable and is pretty stable... does not look to be so evil if you do it outdoors with a mask and with tiny quantities....

 

Edit:

 

Ok, Now I found out what is the product name and  why all are calling it the evil stuff, pretty nasty..... I found this link to another forum I read interesting and with several solutions for the same problem we are discussing here. http://www.practical...acrylic-216404/

 

Regards

Edited by piscov, 12 February 2014 - 10:44 AM.

[TimGirdler]

Acetone works for me in Celluloid, especially if I mix it before with shaves of celluloid  I get from machining a similar piece of celluloid. It becomes more gel like and can be used to fill voids or fill larger cracks after they are welded only by using the acetone. The only problem I face sometimes is air bubbles in he mixture, so I need to use it in very thin layers and let it cure for 2 days before the next  layer. Acetone is not really dangerous, it is used to take the nail polish fro ladys nails as Tim already wrote, I just use the pure one, not the scented and colored one you can find in most places for as nail polish remover.

 

Acrylic as been a problem for me, I don't have MEK, need to source it yet.

 

Chloroform is also used in the acrylic industry to weld, even to weld fish tanks. Is this the evil stuff you are talking about?? It is volatile, can put you to sleep but is not flammable and is pretty stable... does not look to be so evil if you do it outdoors with a mask and with tiny quantities....

 

Edit:

 

Ok, Now I found out what is the product name and  why all are calling it the evil stuff, pretty nasty..... I found this link to another forum I read interesting and with several solutions for the same problem we are discussing here. http://www.practical...acrylic-216404/

 

Regards

 

It's not chloroform.  And the link you posted mentions the stuff I use for acrylics.  But, the celluloid stuff, which is far nastier than what is mentioned in the article, is still best left unsaid.

 

Blessings,

 

Tim

[FarmBoy]

THF?

[jjlax10]

The bottom line I think is that Tim and I have had instruction from a very talented and knowledgeable individual, and all these solvents are nasty, and like anything, if you understand the issues you can make good decisions on how to handle the substances and safeguard your health.

[JanesvilleJones]

But, the celluloid stuff, which is far nastier than what is mentioned in the article, is still best left unsaid.

 

We are all adults here (or else we couldn’t buy the stuff, anyway)…  if it’s not a trade secret, what is the harm in telling? Is it simply potential damage to pens? Under what circumstances would you feel comfortable telling someone?

 

As one who is ambitious about learning pen repair, I would like to someday earn access to such information… (and I assume that earn would be the correct word here? ‘Dues to pay’ in any field…)

 

Thanks in advance.

[TimGirdler]

 

But, the celluloid stuff, which is far nastier than what is mentioned in the article, is still best left unsaid.

 

We are all adults here (or else we couldn’t buy the stuff, anyway)…  if it’s not a trade secret, what is the harm in telling? Is it simply potential damage to pens? Under what circumstances would you feel comfortable telling someone?

 

As one who is ambitious about learning pen repair, I would like to someday earn access to such information… (and I assume that earn would be the correct word here? ‘Dues to pay’ in any field…)

 

Thanks in advance.

 

 

Actually...it's not about potential damage to pens....it's about potential damage to people.

 

If you PM me, I’ll tell you what I’ve told others—and it’ll lead you to the answer.

 

The reason I’ll not confirm or deny the substance here is due to the dangers of the substance itself.  There are, after all, some states where you have to show due cause for owning the substance, claiming it is a necessity for your business.  Some people hear things (like the brown paper bag thing for nibs) and cause damage to their pens.  Others hear about this substance and try to use it and not know the dangers, saying “so-and-so can use it so I can, too.”

 

I’m sorry for the coy-ness, but it’s actually a way of covering my own rear-end.  No one can say, specifically, “Tim said…..”

 

Blessings,

 

Tim

[Jim B]

THF?

 

Yes, that is what Tim is being coy about. It is nasty stuff but the best stuff on celluloid.

Doesn't work on Acrylic or Styrene, for those I like Weld On 3 or 4.

 

Disclosing this information in no way condones amateurs using any of this stuff, cautions must exercised. 

Edited by Jim B, 15 February 2014 - 05:36 PM.

[Rick Krantz]

Anyone thinking of grabbing some of this stuff, be careful, it is quite dangerous, and even though it might seem a bit awkward how everyone protects the actual name of the compound, it is certainly with reason. Do some research, and don't take the hazards and caution lightly. 

 

if you are starting out, try acetone or MEK on junk pens, follow the cautions. I don't think that anyone outside the realm of the pro's should be using the THF. 

 

you all have been informed and warned. Be safe everyone

 

Rick 

[JanesvilleJones]

Thanks for the clarification, everyone. My slop about “earning” access seems quite silly now… no hazing, grueling 7-year apprenticeships or even PM’s necessary…

 

In all seriousness, I had wondered if this was in the realm of: “I would have to know you personally and have confidence in your understanding of certain concepts of materials science and handling, etc” in order to be entertained...

 

For myself, I have no intention of messing with any of this any time soon. But many thanks for sharing… I’m glad that this information isn’t actually a secret.