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The PITMAN SUPER FONO PEN


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#1 Paul M

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Posted 06 April 2014 - 02:12 PM

I have come across a few Pitman pens in the past, and was of the view that they were all made for the Pitman Short hand college by Waterman UK. Examples of the "Pitman Fono Leverfill" and the Pitman Fono Deluxe" had characteristics that would support this view, notably their very Waterman-esque feed.

 

Recently I picked up a PITMAN SUPER FONO  PEN off ebay, which is less obvious as to origin;

 

     The split cap is something I link with DLR and Wyvern. My Waterman collection is very small but I cannot recall having seen this design on any of their models.

     It has a box lever, and I have only seem one very early Wyvern with this kind of lever system. 

     The nib is a warranted 14ct marked A.3

 

Any one able to throw any light on the origin of this example?

 

gallery_5000_394_751106.jpg



#2 Deb

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Posted 06 April 2014 - 05:00 PM

I wrote a bit about the Fono Deluxe here but you have an altogether better example than I had.  I was unable to throw any light on the source of the pens but the lever box on your pen looks quite like that used by De La Rue on some Magnas and lesser lever fillers.  The large lollipop end is especially characteristic..



#3 AZuniga

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Posted 07 April 2014 - 05:35 PM

I have a Wyvern 60 and the cap top is very similar to your Fono, although it has three gold cap rings and the clip as well as the lever are very different.

Nevertheless I believe the link Fono / Wyvern is right... since they manufactured many pens for other companies, for example Ford Patent.

Regards



#4 Paul M

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Posted 08 April 2014 - 07:11 AM

Thanks for the link Deb, as always an interesting piece.

 

Penmex, I have seen a number of Wyverns with caps of this design, including a few Ingersoll's that were clearly made by them. However, it is the box-lever that has thrown me; I would be tempted to say Wyvern never used the box-lever method, except that I have an example that showed that it was used in a very early Wyvern 60 Clutch Selfil-Safety:

 

gallery_5000_394_222996.jpg

 

Looks unusual in the picture, but it is a box-lever, and the Pat No is linked to Wyvern so not a replacement. 

 

I have similarly seen a few DLR models with split caps, but none with the domed top.



#5 AndyR

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Posted 08 April 2014 - 07:43 AM

Hi Paul,

 

Regarding Wyvern and the box levers, I can only draw a parallel with CS. At first thought you would say CS never used box levers either, but you do see them occasionally if you look hard enough, especially on pens made for others, and there are a few examples pictured in FPFTM. Maybe if the client particularly requested a box lever, they would fit them rather than lose the business.

 

If you also look at my topic on Bentley pens a bit further down this forum, you will see Simon has posted several pictures of various pens with the split cap with the domed end.

 

Andy



#6 Deb

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Posted 08 April 2014 - 08:59 AM

An ever more interesting topic.  The only thing that I would have thought would be challenging to any of the manufacturers would be the box lever but I'm surprised to find that even Wyvern had done this.  The mid-cap clip would have posed no problem to any pen manufacturer, nor would the domed cap.  As always when we try to decide who made a given pen we come up against the fact that any of the pen makers around at the time could make any pen.  Resemblance to a manufacturer's output can rarely be taken as a guide.  Without documentary evidence we can continue to speculate but we're unlikely to arrive at a reliable conclusion.  Not that the speculation is a bad thing - look at all the information it has brought out here!



#7 Paul M

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Posted 08 April 2014 - 05:58 PM

Hi Paul,

 

 

 

If you also look at my topic on Bentley pens a bit further down this forum, you will see Simon has posted several pictures of various pens with the split cap with the domed end.

 

Andy

 

Andy

 

The thought that there might be a Bentley link had crossed my mind, but I discounted it because I have assumed the Fono to pre-date Bentley production.

 

would that not necessarily be the case?



#8 AndyR

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Posted 08 April 2014 - 07:15 PM

I'm showing my ignorance by not knowing the date of your Super Fono, but Bentley dates would be 1930 to 1934, possibly a few years later if Egertons actually carried on selling Bentley pens. However, I am still no clearer as to who actually made the Bentley pens either, it could have been the Dixons or it could have been somebody else. I have very few leads to follow up on these, nor any time at present to even follow those that I do have!

 

Andy



#9 Cob

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Posted 02 July 2014 - 09:45 PM

gallery_80961_406_249535.jpg

 

I adore these obscure pens - and some of the Pitmans are very nice-looking.  I couldn't resist this one which I have just bought.  I hope that the picture will add something to this thread.  Apart from anything else it is English and has a flat top!

 

 Photo credit goes to ebay seller nataliejv.

 

Here's another snap:

 

gallery_80961_406_106663.jpg

 

Best wishes,

 

Cob


Edited by Cob, 02 July 2014 - 09:50 PM.


#10 Deb

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Posted 03 July 2014 - 10:28 AM

Beautiful pen in superb condition.  The mid-cap clip probably dates it to the mid-twenties as that style was popular then.  There was another example of this Pitman's College pen sold in May this year on eBay.  The seller at that time said that the warranted nib was etched "RK Super" and had some flexibility which he says was required for shorthand.  Not that I would know anything about that.



#11 Cob

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Posted 03 July 2014 - 11:34 AM

When I get the pen, I'll take it apart and photograph the feed which might perhaps allow the experts hereabouts to identify the maker!

 

Best wishes

 

Cob


Edited by Cob, 03 July 2014 - 11:34 AM.


#12 Cob

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Posted 04 July 2014 - 08:12 PM

As promised, here a couple of rather poor snaps (I didn't promise the poverty of photography though!).

 

 

Do these help to identify the manufacturer?

 

gallery_80961_410_115294.jpg

 

 gallery_80961_410_81324.jpg

 

Best wishes,

 

 

Cob


Edited by Cob, 04 July 2014 - 08:13 PM.


#13 Cob

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Posted 04 July 2014 - 11:31 PM

Well I put the pen back together this evening; I had a great deal of trouble with the feed: it came out easily enough but was a pig to replace. 

 

The nib appears to have been made of boiled spaghetti, and of course the feed cannot keep up with it.  It needs a hose pipe rather than a feed I think.  Flexibility is a nice-to-have but this is silly - and also scratchy, though a lot better after I have been doing a bit of tweaking.

 

The pen is lovely; unless I can solve the nib and feed problems I shall be looking for a nib for it, a nice stub like an early Swan or perhaps a Waterman's with plenty of what I call "edge" to it.

 

Rgds

 

Cob


Edited by Cob, 04 July 2014 - 11:32 PM.


#14 Cob

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Posted 06 July 2014 - 05:24 PM

Thanks to the efforts of Annie and the encouragement of other "geeks", this pen now works.  As I wrote before, the nib is incredibly flexible, which I suppose (as Deb noted) was deemed to be an asset for making shorthand strokes.  I was all for changing the nib, but it's great now!

 

Sorry about the poor handwriting - this sample is purely to illustrate the flexibility of the small nib on this pen.

 

gallery_80961_410_185508.jpg

 

Best wishes,

 

Cob



#15 Cob

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Posted 07 July 2014 - 10:37 AM

Update.

 

I'm afraid I spoke too soon.  The nib is so flexible that unless one writes in such a way as not to exploit the flexibility one has to reset the tines every half hour - they spread and stay spread!  A pity, but there it is.

 

I am looking for an "interesting" small nib to replace it.

 

Best wishes

 

Cob



#16 Wardok

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Posted 08 July 2014 - 05:18 PM

I'm not so sure that shorthand nibs were flexible, I got a Senator shorthand last week with a lot of other pens, and it is a bit of a nail. I need to check my Waterman and Conway Stewart shorthand pens to support this, but I think they are pretty hard as well.

Simon



#17 Cob

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Posted 08 July 2014 - 08:04 PM

Thanks Wardok for your observations; I recall ahving read somewhere that shorthand nibs (I should say some shorthand nibs I suppose!) were flexible to produce suitable line variation.

 

Perhaps that was the thinking at Pitman's in the 1920s?

 

Meanwhile I have removed the uber-flexible nib and have replaced it with a Swan No 1 Calligraph nib, the only suitable spare I have.  It fits and works very nicely, though I had to use a Swan SF1 feed with it.

 

Rgds,

 

Cob



#18 Paul M

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Posted 08 July 2014 - 09:37 PM

Thanks Wardok for your observations; I recall ahving read somewhere that shorthand nibs (I should say some shorthand nibs I suppose!) were flexible to produce suitable line variation.

 

Perhaps that was the thinking at Pitman's in the 1920s?

 

Meanwhile I have removed the uber-flexible nib and have replaced it with a Swan No 1 Calligraph nib, the only suitable spare I have.  It fits and works very nicely, though I had to use a Swan SF1 feed with it.

 

Rgds,

 

Cob

 

It is my understanding that different shorthand systems required differing types of nib, but that the Pitman system needed a nib able to give line variation. I am very happy to be corrected as I was in the woodwork room when shorthand was being taught at my school.

 

If you suspect the nib is original to the pen then I would suggest keeping it that way... in my view putting other nibs and feeds in will detract from what is a nice pen. 



#19 Cob

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Posted 08 July 2014 - 10:51 PM

 

Thanks Wardok for your observations; I recall ahving read somewhere that shorthand nibs (I should say some shorthand nibs I suppose!) were flexible to produce suitable line variation.

 

Perhaps that was the thinking at Pitman's in the 1920s?

 

Meanwhile I have removed the uber-flexible nib and have replaced it with a Swan No 1 Calligraph nib, the only suitable spare I have.  It fits and works very nicely, though I had to use a Swan SF1 feed with it.

 

Rgds,

 

Cob

 

It is my understanding that different shorthand systems required differing types of nib, but that the Pitman system needed a nib able to give line variation. I am very happy to be corrected as I was in the woodwork room when shorthand was being taught at my school.

 

If you suspect the nib is original to the pen then I would suggest keeping it that way... in my view putting other nibs and feeds in will detract from what is a nice pen. 

 

 

 

Thanks Paul for your contribution.  Of course I have the original nib and feed put by safely, but that nib is simply not practical to use and I love using that particular pen - it is long, slimmish and light and I like the look of it.  I would rather like to have a stub like the one in my Waterman's 32, but for now the Calligraph is fun and if push comes to shove then I can easily restore the pen to original shape.

 

Best wishes,

 

Cob



#20 lorr1e1

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Posted 15 June 2015 - 06:47 PM

I was wondering if anyone is selling a pitman fono pen?




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