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Seeking info: WIrt--Aikin-Lambert connection


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#1 david i

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Posted 17 November 2010 - 07:21 AM

Aikin Lambert (pre Waterman ownership days) apparently had a relationship with Wirt, at least if I can believe some recently discovered evidence.

Anyone have any info?

Yeah, i know, fat chance.

regards

David
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#2 djohannsen

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Posted 17 November 2010 - 01:20 PM

Aikin Lambert (pre Waterman ownership days) apparently had a relationship with Wirt, at least if I can believe some recently discovered evidence.

Anyone have any info?

Yeah, i know, fat chance.

regards

David


I have no evidence (except observation) but believe that Wirt supplied hard rubber holders to many makers. I don't know anything of Aikin-Lambert, but believe that I have "read somewhere, at some point in time," that they were one of the makers who purchased from Wirt. Perhaps David N will have something more substantial (and credible) to say on this topic...


Dave

#3 Kirchh

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Posted 17 November 2010 - 04:36 PM

Aikin Lambert (pre Waterman ownership days) apparently had a relationship with Wirt, at least if I can believe some recently discovered evidence.

Anyone have any info?

Yeah, i know, fat chance.

regards

David

Some early trade materials seem to indicate that A,L was manufacturing or at least distributing Wirt pens:

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From 4/7/1897 "Jewelers' Circular and Horological Review".

I suspect others will have more refined information on this.

--Daniel

#4 david i

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Posted 17 November 2010 - 07:11 PM

Some early trade materials seem to indicate that A,L was manufacturing or at least distributing Wirt pens:

SNIP

I suspect others will have more refined information on this.

--Daniel


Thanks Daniel. Useful info.

Rummaging through the "1000 pen hoard" a black hard rubber eye-dropper caught my eye. In decent shape for something that might date to 1900 or so. Recognizing that my involvement with early FP's is casual, I nonetheless suspect this pen is a bit of a pot stirrer. I've seen no reference before to anything like it.

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regards

david



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Email: isaacson@frontiernet.net

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#5 Kirchh

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Posted 17 November 2010 - 07:25 PM

Dutcher and Speary concur that A, L was Wirt's agent and/or made pens under license during the late 1800s. I hope David N. will weigh in as I suspect he knows a bit more about this.

--Daniel

#6 david i

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Posted 17 November 2010 - 07:29 PM

Dutcher and Speary concur that A, L was Wirt's agent and/or made pens under license during the late 1800s. I hope David N. will weigh in as I suspect he knows a bit more about this.

--Daniel


Not a surprise given the imprint, but still I wonder if any pens that explicitly demonstrate linkage have been shown before. I'd not be shocked if there were such pens. I just have not seen them.

-d





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Email: isaacson@frontiernet.net

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#7 Kirchh

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Posted 17 November 2010 - 07:30 PM

Not a surprise given the imprint, but still I wonder if any pens that explicitly demonstrate linkage have been shown before. I'd not be shocked if there were such pens. I just have not seen them.

-d

One went by on eBay a couple of years ago (might be the same example, I suppose...).

--Daniel

#8 david i

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Posted 17 November 2010 - 07:34 PM

One went by on eBay a couple of years ago (might be the same example, I suppose...).

--Daniel




That's good to know. I doubt this is same example. This elderly fellow was buying pens throughout the NY area for decades. This is same source as the odd Waterman early nib is what perhaps is an early Waterman taper cap.

http://fountainpenbo...er-seen-before/


While I did not explicitly push the point during the evaluation (family present, not the collector), I had the distinct impression he was not so active with this the last few years as local sources were less productive, and I received the impression he was not competing with other buyers online via ebay. Not proof of course.

-d
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Email: isaacson@frontiernet.net

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#9 David Nishimura

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Posted 17 November 2010 - 07:58 PM

I've had and seen a number of pens with this imprint.  I believe they normally have a long, paddle-like feed inside.

Discussion of Wirt and Stone here, from a couple of years ago.



#10 david i

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Posted 17 November 2010 - 08:09 PM

I've had and seen a number of pens with this imprint. I believe they normally have a long, paddle-like feed inside.

Discussion of Wirt and Stone here, from a couple of years ago.



Sounds as if the Aikin nib was not imaged with that ebay pen, given the original reference to "Mercantile" alone in the first post. The Mercantile model name was used by Aikin Lambert of course even as late as the plastic lever-fill era (under Waterman ownership).

Here are the key quotes from Lion/Pen.

Per Ron Dutcher: The pen mentioned above from the ebay auction is not a Wirt, but a Aiken Lambert. In the late 1880's, before Waterman started taking over Aiken Lambert, ALCO, produced fountain pens of their own, licesing both the patents of Wirt and Stone. Mercantile was one of Aikin Lambert's best selling pens.


When Paul Wirt sued F. C. Brown of Caw's Pen and Ink for patent infringement, and again when Wirt sued Lampham and Bogart for their Rival pen, the defenses argued that Wirt didn't deserve a patent himself pointing out the patents of Mavin Stone. Wirt just squeaked his case by, arguing that his feed protruded into the barrel where Stone's stoped at the joint.


However, these arguments must have phased Wirt a little bit, because he quickly bought the patent rights from Stone.

This can be seen in the early Wirt imprits:

(pasting from my Wirt site...)

PAUL E. WIRT PAT. FEB - '85
Above is the first standard Paul Wirt imprint. All of the fountain pens bearing this imprint would be over feeds, and these are not easy to find.


PAUL E. WIRT FOUNTAIN PEN
PAT'D JUNE 27, 1882 FEB 3, 1885

Though this imprint bears an earlier date than the imprint above, Paul Wirt fountain pens with this imprint were made later. The 1882 date refers to Marvin C. Stone's fountain pen patent. In the late 1880's Paul Wirt was caught up in many law suits, protecting his fountin pen patents from infringements from the likes of F.C. Brown of the Caw's pen company. In all of these trials the defending parties raised the question of Stone's earlier pen patent that was very similar to Paul Wirt's. Around 1889 Wirt acquired the Stone patent rights and began imprinting that date on his pens. If you find an early Wirt overfeed fountain pen, chances are it has this imprint.


Regards

David
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Email: isaacson@frontiernet.net

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#11 david i

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Posted 17 November 2010 - 08:12 PM

Just an image to show how late Aikin made Mercantile models (though, on the early HR pen shown, "Mercantile" arguably is a brand, not a model)

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regards

David
David R. Isaacson MD. Website: VACUMANIA.com for quality old pens with full warranty.
Email: isaacson@frontiernet.net

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#12 david i

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Posted 17 November 2010 - 08:21 PM

Per Ron Dutcher: The pen mentioned above from the ebay auction is not a Wirt, but a Aiken Lambert. In the late 1880's, before Waterman started taking over Aiken Lambert, ALCO, produced fountain pens of their own, licesing both the patents of Wirt and Stone. Mercantile was one of Aikin Lambert's best selling pens.

Regards

David


I also note that while the WIrt/Stone info is helpful, still a bit hazy are the details of the relationship between Aikin and Wirt (eg. who physically made the pens, etc). Obviously some of that might prove difficult to pin.

-d




David R. Isaacson MD. Website: VACUMANIA.com for quality old pens with full warranty.
Email: isaacson@frontiernet.net

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