7 replies to this topic

[Roger W.]

OK, I have secured (EBayed) a Moore B-12.  I have heard that the Moore B series was made for them by Boston.  Oddly enough this B-12 comes with a Boston nib.  When it arrives I have several Boston 12's to compare it to as a Boston 12 is a common model.  I'd intended to corner a Moore B before this but, we'll see how this one goes.  If the comparisons are fairly equivalent we'll score a different model B and continue the experiment.  It is likely true that Moore B's were made by Boston as Boston folks came over to a restructured American (becoming Moore after Boston's sale to Wahl) by April of 1917.  When Wahl finalized the sale of Boston and what Boston might have been producing in 1917 is likely to be conjecture only with the B models supporting a likely though ultimately unproveable conclusion.

 

Has anyone ever done this comparison? 

 

Roger W.

[david i]

Pics?

 

Boston or Boston Safety?  What's the difference again?

 

regards

 

-d

[Roger W.]

There was a Boston Pen Company.  Bruce Speary mashes their history with Boston Fountain Pen Company (Watches and Pens) that is how (and sometimes quoted) you get 1894-1917 for a timeline.  Boston Pen Company existed circa 1894 and made the "Victor" pen which shortly after moved to New York.  Companies often made named pens.  American Fountain Pen Company made the Moore pen until they changed the name of the company to that in 1917.  So the Boston Fountain Pen Company made the Boston Safety Fountain Pen (1904-1917).  Of import American reincorporated to Moore the year George Brandt from Boston joined them and he had patents with them.  The reincorporation could have been done to add Brandt(s) and others to the new corporation.  The auction is here - http://www.ebay.com/...984.m1497.l2649.  I'll post when the pen arrives and I can compare - pics to follow.

 

Roger W.

[Roger W.]

Pics to follow but, the B-12 is here.  It is not a Boston 12.  This pen does have a Boston 2 nib and it could even be a Boston section.  The pen itself is close to a Boston 13 with sections being interchangeable.  The outer barrel threads on the Moore are cut differently and the length of both the cap and the barrel are longer than Bostons.  Also, we need to keep in mind that the pen is marked the Moore Pen Company so it is after it was reorganized in 1917.  We know the L models are for lever so what does the "B" stand for?  A Boston 13 cap will somewhat thread on the Moore pen.  While the cap says patent pending I could not find a Moore patent on just a cap (no clip - they had other patents for those).  It could be that these pens were designed by George Brant who came over to Moore after it was reorganized but, I doubt the pens were made by Boston for Moore.  Maybe Moore made them as early as 1917 at their works in Boston.

 

Roger W.

[david i]

Roger, to clarify...

 

We know there were Moore pens prior to 1917.

 

Moore pens prior to 1917 were made by company not called Moore but rather American.

 

In 1917 American became Moore and still made Moore pens.

 

Also in 1917, American-- which became Moore- bought/absorbed  all or some of The Boston Fountain Pen Company, whose product line (not just a model) was the Boston Safety Fountain Pen (in this case not referencing what collectors in the general case call safety pens). 

 

This left the newly-renamed Moore Pen Company (which had been making Moore pens as the American Pen Company for around 20 years), a mix of Moore and the prior Boston Fountain Pen Company.

 

And, of course, some of BFC went to Wahl-Eversharp, who started issuing Boston Safety Fountain Pen-ish products under the Wahl name.

 

Feel free to correct...

 

regards

 

d

[Roger W.]

"Also in 1917, American-- which became Moore- bought/absorbed  all or some of The Boston Fountain Pen Company, whose product line (not just a model) was the Boston Safety Fountain Pen (in this case not referencing what collectors in the general case call safety pens)."

 

This is only if you do research worthy of Rob Astyk - which couldn't be more WRONG.  Another researcher (not positive which off the top of my head) found an ad that Wahl ran in 1917 which clarified that they bought Boston including the patents (Brandts really not Boston).  What went to American renamed Moore (who made the Moore Pen which would become the company) was George Brandt and some other key Boston personnel and that was it.  Now what patterns or intellectual property George brought with him is hard to say.   

 

Roger W.

 

"We have just purchased the entire business..."  It did not get broken up on the alter of East Coast money grubbing pen companies as Astyk has so wrongly said without having 1 iota of supporting documentation!  I'd been coming to that conclusion for years through the tax records but when this ad was found it cinched it.

[david i]

Oh happy to clarify what is right and wrong. I thought you were suggesting some of Boston Fountain Pen ended up at Moore.

 

Apparently not.

I do note that the announcement you show is extraordinarily useful

 

-d

[Roger W.]

David;

 

I had heard that people thought that the B series bchr Moores were made for them by Boston before they closed up.  That the pen says it is the Moore Pen Company, so post reorganization, makes it very unlikely for any case supporting Boston having made this series.  There are certainly similarities to Boston but, that is easily attributable to Brandt and some of the workers coming over from Boston to Moore.  Perhaps the "B" is homage to that fact as these are dropper pens and "B" doesn't lend itself to anything but, Boston - perhaps the city and the company.   There are two other notable differences.  The wave chasing on the more the waves have greater rise and fall.  More importantly, the barrel threads are single start on a Boston and triple start on the Moore.  I think if they had been made at the Boston factory there would be more similarities.

 

My poor old 13 was one of the first vintage pens I bought some 30 years ago.

 

Roger W.

 

Moore in the middle, Boston 13 on top Boston 12 on Bottom

 

Moore section on top Boston Section on bottom - both have Boston 2 nibs but, note the difference in the threads

 

Longer Moore cap in the middle