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Waterman's keyhole nib


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#1 Cheshire

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Posted 20 June 2014 - 04:26 PM

Greetings, 

 

I'm searching for articles or info about Waterman's keyhole nibs. I have read R. Binder's page on Waterman #5 and #7 for color codes. There are a few scattered old FPN threads featuring collections and sales but nothing new. I'm specifically interested in looking for "Pens For a Particular Hand" by Robert Astyk which had been hosted on the former Lion and Pen forums if anyone has a copy.

 

I know the #5 and #7 had been color coded but sometimes I see unlabeled keyhole nibs on 1940s models. Is there a major difference between the two keyhole nibs? Also, did other models have keyhole nibs? I have a Waterman's 94 and I'm curious if anyone knows if it's rare or normal. Reminds me, I've seen a lot of sales for BROWN, RED, and PINK nibs but BLUE nibs seem to be uncommon. 

 

I know keyhole nibs are uncommon but is here a specific reason why there aren't more around? Were they unsucessful or just a limited time run? Thanks. 

 

OT: Are special tools needed for restoring keyhole FPs? I assumed they could be restored the same as ... all the other Waterman's lever fillers. 


Edited by Cheshire, 20 June 2014 - 06:04 PM.


#2 Procyon

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Posted 20 June 2014 - 05:15 PM

I can guarantee you haven't seen a lot of sales for a BLACK nib - they are by far the rarest.  Since nobody has ever seen a WHITE nib, I don't count that one - I doubt that it ever existed. 

 

The next time you see a BLACK nib for sale, please let me know.  It's the only color I am missing from my Waterman #7 Red Ripple collection.

 

gallery_6983_116_36053.jpg

 

gallery_6983_116_67993.jpg



Schrödinger's cat walks into a bar.  And doesn't.

 

 

Regards,
Allan


#3 Cheshire

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Posted 20 June 2014 - 06:03 PM

Wow, impressive collection. If you have time could you describe the writing for the BROWN nib? 

 

Yes, you're correct. I ended up confusing up the BLACK with PINK nibs. The only search for BLACK nibs brings up some writing samples and a comments about it's rarity. Let me fix the OP. 



#4 Procyon

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Posted 20 June 2014 - 06:48 PM

Well, the BLACK and PINK are essentially the same nib - very flexy and with long tines. Some think that the BLACK was produced because some men wanted that type nib, but didn't like the feminine connotations of a PINK nib. 

 

The BROWN nib's imprint is essentially the same as all the rest.  It is:

 

BROWN

WATERMAN'S

IDEAL

REG. U.S.

PAT. OFF.

MADE IN

U. S. A.

 

The size of the nibs is a little confusing.  The #7 pen is exactly the size of the previous #55, which of course, had a #5 nib.  With the color-coded nibs it seemed like Waterman abandoned their previous nib size scheme, as well as the numbering convention of the pens themselves.  The keyhole nibs on the #7 pens seem about the same size as a previous #5 nib to me.  However, a lot of people call these "# 7 nibs", which is a bit confusing.  However, one of my nibs is actually stamped "7" (the YELLOW), so maybe Waterman sort of "downsized" their nib numbering system at that time. None of the rest have a number.

 

EDIT:  It should be noted that there are more than one type of BROWN nib.  Originally it was a very flexible nib like the PINK, but with shorter tines.  At some point, it was changed to a very stiff nib, for some reason.  This type is less desirable.


Edited by Procyon, 20 June 2014 - 06:51 PM.


Schrödinger's cat walks into a bar.  And doesn't.

 

 

Regards,
Allan


#5 Cheshire

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Posted 20 June 2014 - 07:18 PM

Hmm-- I read here that the BLACK NIB replaced the PINK nib later on. Wait, does that mean if you have a PINK nib, you essentially share the BLACK nib's flex properties? 

 

Sorry, I forgot to ask about the writing properties of the BROWN nib. I read that it's a fine nib with medium flex. I was curious if it would be similar to semi-flex nibs like #2 or greater flexibility? 

 

Also, were the stiff BROWN nibs used in the same models or came out in the later years? I like both firm and flexible nibs but I always wanted to try a flexible nib other than semi-flex. Although, I'm not expecting "wet noodle" flexibility. 

 

Thanks for being patient and answering all my questions  ;)


Edited by Cheshire, 20 June 2014 - 07:19 PM.


#6 Procyon

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Posted 20 June 2014 - 07:55 PM

The first BROWN nibs were very flexible - almost like a PINK.  If you want semi-flex, the RED might be more like it.  However, there is a lot of variation, and I have seen RED nibs that were just about as flexy as a PINK.  I don't think they actually replaced the PINK nib with the BLACK, since they offered both at the same time - they just changed the description (stenographer vs bookkeeper).  Later on, the stiffer BROWN was used in the same pen models I believe. Most of the BROWN nibs I have seen have been the flexible ones.

 

BTW, many people claim to have seen a Yeti.  Many claim to have been kidnapped by aliens and taken aboard flying saucers.  Yet, I don't know of a single person who even claims to have seen a WHITE nib, never mind owning one.  ;)


Edited by Procyon, 20 June 2014 - 07:57 PM.


Schrödinger's cat walks into a bar.  And doesn't.

 

 

Regards,
Allan


#7 Cheshire

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Posted 20 June 2014 - 09:05 PM

BTW, many people claim to have seen a Yeti.  Many claim to have been kidnapped by aliens and taken aboard flying saucers.  Yet, I don't know of a single person who even claims to have seen a WHITE nib, never mind owning one.  ;)

 

I'm sure they exist ... just like ghosts. Just because you can't physically interact with it doesn't mean they are not real.



#8 Cob

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Posted 20 June 2014 - 11:07 PM

The other day there was a No4 Keyhole nib on ebay - I did bid on it - only because it's pretty - I don't own a Waterman's pen!  It went for £35 and it looked very nice indeed.  Sorry I cannot find the listing.

 

Cob



#9 Cheshire

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Posted 21 June 2014 - 01:46 AM

The other day there was a No4 Keyhole nib on ebay - I did bid on it - only because it's pretty - I don't own a Waterman's pen!  It went for £35 and it looked very nice indeed.  Sorry I cannot find the listing.

 

Cob

 

I do sometimes see spare nibs for sale but I wouldn't know which nibs fit each pen. To check old auctions that you didn't win it should be under Summary>Buy> Didn't Win. I like to use it to as reference for sellers and prices for pens. 



#10 Cob

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Posted 21 June 2014 - 05:41 AM

 

The other day there was a No4 Keyhole nib on ebay - I did bid on it - only because it's pretty - I don't own a Waterman's pen!  It went for £35 and it looked very nice indeed.  Sorry I cannot find the listing.

 

Cob

 

I do sometimes see spare nibs for sale but I wouldn't know which nibs fit each pen. To check old auctions that you didn't win it should be under Summary>Buy> Didn't Win. I like to use it to as reference for sellers and prices for pens. 

 

Thanks very much - I was asleep at the switch!

 

Here;'s the link:

 

Cob



#11 Cheshire

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Posted 23 June 2014 - 03:20 PM

FP arrived. BROWN nib is stiff as any modern nail.




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