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Waterman Commando


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#1 Rocco P

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Posted 21 July 2014 - 05:32 AM

Here's what I have found this weekend at Rome's biggest flea market, a Waterman Commando in good condition, save for the end transparent plug that crumbled away.

The nib is a fantastic extra fine, with ample flex.

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I'd like to restore the end plug, but I have no lathe. Is there someone in Italy who could fabricate a new one?

Edited by Paolino, 21 July 2014 - 05:33 AM.

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Rocco


#2 needfulthings

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Posted 21 July 2014 - 06:50 AM

I wonder if it would be more affordable to find a replacement barrel?  



#3 Rocco P

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Posted 21 July 2014 - 12:10 PM

A replacement barrel would probably suffer from the same problem, in my experience. I have four commandos, and each one has lost the butt end.

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Rocco


#4 David Nishimura

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Posted 21 July 2014 - 01:59 PM

25 years ago, one could still find a significant number of these pens with intact ends -- though usually with some internal cracking visible. By now, they are essentially all gone. Restoration is the only real option.

 

Have you asked Fabio Moricci? He's certainly capable of doing the work. And doing four at once would make more sense than doing just one.


Edited by David Nishimura, 21 July 2014 - 01:59 PM.


#5 Rocco P

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Posted 21 July 2014 - 06:24 PM

Have you asked Fabio Moricci? He's certainly capable of doing the work. And doing four at once would make more sense than doing just one.


Thanks for the pointer. Is he a member here?

Edited by Paolino, 21 July 2014 - 06:24 PM.

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Rocco


#6 Rocco P

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Posted 21 July 2014 - 06:31 PM

By now, they are essentially all gone.


Would this mean that a few decades at most and there'll be no Patrician, no Doric etc.. left in the world? The celluloid used seems almost as prone to crazing as the one used on Commandos ends.

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Rocco


#7 Madame Stylo

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Posted 22 July 2014 - 02:20 AM

Funny, I was just thinking about Lucite pens today and I believe the ends of Commandos were Lucite, the same material as the transparent 100 Year pens.  I've read that Parker used Lucite for the hoods on some P51s.  Does anyone know why those pens are not suffering the same disintegration as the Waterman ones?    



#8 david i

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Posted 22 July 2014 - 02:46 AM

 

By now, they are essentially all gone.


Would this mean that a few decades at most and there'll be no Patrician, no Doric etc.. left in the world? The celluloid used seems almost as prone to crazing as the one used on Commandos ends.

 

 

Well, in a few decades at most many of us won't be around ;)

 

While some plastics are well more stable than others, the Watermans from this era/style are particularly at risk. Among 1930's pens, some are more at risk than others. Black pens seem to be holding up very well.

 

regards

 

david


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#9 David Nishimura

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Posted 22 July 2014 - 03:26 AM

 

Have you asked Fabio Moricci? He's certainly capable of doing the work. And doing four at once would make more sense than doing just one.


Thanks for the pointer. Is he a member here?

 

 

No. Contact info at his website: http://www.pennaio.com/



#10 David Nishimura

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Posted 22 July 2014 - 03:31 AM

Funny, I was just thinking about Lucite pens today and I believe the ends of Commandos were Lucite, the same material as the transparent 100 Year pens.  I've read that Parker used Lucite for the hoods on some P51s.  Does anyone know why those pens are not suffering the same disintegration as the Waterman ones?    

 

The transparent ends that disintegrate are celluloid, not Lucite (acrylic). The first Hundred Year pens were made of Lucite, and they do not craze or disintegrate. Soon after, Waterman changed over to celluloid, probably due to wartime materials constraints. Note that Parker made 51 pencil barrels out of celluloid during the war as well.



#11 David Nishimura

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Posted 22 July 2014 - 03:35 AM

 

By now, they are essentially all gone.


Would this mean that a few decades at most and there'll be no Patrician, no Doric etc.. left in the world? The celluloid used seems almost as prone to crazing as the one used on Commandos ends.

 

 

Most Patrician materials have held up pretty well. Not so for the Dorics, especially certain colors.



#12 amk

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Posted 22 July 2014 - 08:54 PM

Anyone know why certain celluloids are worse than others? Is it always the brightest and most saturated colours that are most prone to crazing? Is black usually the most robust? Or is the determining factor something quite different?

#13 David Nishimura

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Posted 23 July 2014 - 11:08 PM

It's very complicated.

Part of the issue is how well the nitrated cellulose is washed and deacidified, before it is plasticized and mixed with the other ingredients.

A big part is transparency. Blocking out light helps keep the material from deteriorating.

Some pigments act as stabilizers -- carbon black stabilizes nearly everything it is mixed into. Other pigments may not play as well.

It's not necessarily the most intense colors that are most prone to deterioration. Often it is the lighter shades that are the most vulnerable.



#14 Cob

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Posted 24 July 2014 - 08:34 AM

This thread has been fascinating; can I assume then that pre-war Waterman's pens were manufactured from celluloid (apart of course from the BHR ones)?

 

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#15 david i

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Posted 24 July 2014 - 09:36 AM

Yep. TBOMK all pre (and a bunch of post) Acrylic (1939-1941-2 or so) plastic Watermans are Celluloid.


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#16 Cob

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Posted 24 July 2014 - 09:54 AM

Yep. TBOMK all pre (and a bunch of post) Acrylic (1939-1941-2 or so) plastic Watermans are Celluloid.

Thank you David.

 

Cob






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