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In the wild find - Conway Stewart Pens and trays


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#1 piscov

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Posted 11 October 2014 - 04:32 PM

God day all,

 

Today I was offered 23 writing instruments (pens, BP, MP) and 2 trays. I bought the lot just because some of the pens, like a Pelikan 400 a Pelikan 20 Silvexa set and the Conklin lady size that still has the paper band, but above all because of the lovely CS trays.

 

The tray look really great. The inner tray slides-off the frame.

Are these store trays?? Are they hard to find?

 

About the CS Pens:

All black Hard-Rubber pens are CS (6 of them), except the ones that have the white top and the small Conklin with the band.

Unfortunately all, except one, clips are ruined and even the one remaining is place in in really bad shape.

All nibs are CS 14Cts nibs. All pens are engraved The Conway Stewart,  372

 

Where can I get replacement clips for these pens? Are these pens rare or common? Year of manufacture?

 

I really like the trays!!

 

Thanks in advance!!

 

 

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DSC08694_zpsab823b25.jpg

 

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Edited by piscov, 11 October 2014 - 06:14 PM.

Best regards
Vasco

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#2 AndyR

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Posted 11 October 2014 - 05:49 PM

This is a great find, congratulations!

 

The style of the clip on the one good 372 pen indicates that these are early models, probably imported by CS from a North American manufacturer around 1918 - 1920.  A range of similar model numbers such as 369, 370 etc. are known from this era, and most of them are found only rarely, but we generally know very little about them. If you can get hold of a copy of my article about Harry Worth in the WES Journal no. 100, you will be able to learn a little more about how these pens might have found their way to England and then on to Portugal (if that is where you bought them). I can't help with a source of clips, but if the pens are indeed of American manufacture, you may consider contacting collectors of early American pens to see if they can help.

 

The trays look to be in perfect condition, and they are very desirable to CS collectors. Such trays were generally part of a glass display cabinet, the sliding tray would allow the shop assistant to easily remove the whole tray of pens from the cabinet to show to a prospective customer. My feeling is that the trays are not quite as old as the pens, my guess would be about mid or late 1920s.

 

Andy



#3 piscov

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Posted 11 October 2014 - 06:35 PM

Thanks Andy, great news!!

 

It´s a pity the clips are gone ( most CS pens look not have been used) and it´s even more unfortunate that the cabinet is no where to be found.... only the trays, that are gorgeous.

 

I would love to get hold of your article!

 

Need to read about CS a bit I always though that all production was made indoors.

 

Best

 

 

Vasco


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Vasco

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#4 AndyR

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Posted 11 October 2014 - 07:27 PM

Conway Stewart did import a lot of pens from America during WW1, when, in England, experienced workers were hard to find and demand for pens was very high. Though they started to make their own pens about 1912, it was not until about 1921, when they moved into their new factory at Shoe Lane, that they could begin to manufacture really large numbers of pens by themselves.

 

Andy



#5 piscov

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Posted 15 October 2014 - 09:58 PM

Is this web site a good reference on CS numeric codes and descriptions?

 

Turns out that The CS lot of pens I got are made of 2 different pens. The CS 372 and CS 372A.

I could not find any reference online to  the372A model ( I have 2 of these), Only 372 ( I have 4) is referred in the previous referred website. 

I can also find a reference here at the WES database, although my pens have differences from what is described in the later.

 

On the first site the pen is described as:

"The Universal Pen: Shallow domed top, CP fixed clip, no band, no groove, CP flange lever, CS nib. Dimensions - length: 13.2cm; barrel+ section: 10.7cm; cap: 5.9cm."

The author refers that pen as "* = 0 to 1 record" in is database making it very rare ( not sure about the sample he uses!!)

Well, in my database there are four 372A's and two 372 ;) :D  and my sample is of 6 CS pens....

My pens match the description there with some lite differences in sizes. Description on WES is very diferent from the other website and from my pens.

 

Dimensions of my pens:

 

372A - Total length with cap fully screwed on - 13,6cm

          Cap length - 5,97cm

          Barrel + section length - 11cm

          Cap diameter - 12,2mm

          Barrel diameter - 10,5mm

 

372 -Total length with cap fully screwed on - 13,75cm

          Cap length - 5,96cm

          Barrel + section length - 13cm

          Cap diameter - 12,2mm

          Barrel diameter - 11,5mm

 

Tomorrow I'll post detailed pictures but so far the biggest difference betwen 372 and 372A is diameter, 372 is larger than the 372A.


Best regards
Vasco

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#6 piscov

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Posted 15 October 2014 - 10:05 PM

Very interesting  is that both CS 372 are marked "MADE IN ENGLAND" bellow the engraving  "The Conway Stewart

                                                                                                                                                                 Nº 372"

 

All the 372A don´t.

 

Note:

Correction : All pens have the Made in England imprint. More detailed pictures can be found on a post bellow


Edited by piscov, 16 October 2014 - 10:46 AM.

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Vasco

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#7 AndyR

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Posted 16 October 2014 - 09:16 AM

Hi Vasco,

 

The first site you mention was set up by Jonathan Donahaye, who is unfortunately no longer with us. The site has therefore not been updated for about 7 years, and our knowledge has moved on a lot since then. There are a plenty of known errors and omissions, but it is still the best online reference to Conway Stewart. The other site belongs to David Wells, another well known CS collector, but again, I don't think he maintains his site these days, his collecting interests are moving on from general CS to more specific areas, such as Le Tigre.

 

If you look at Jonathan's site, you'll see he actually describes two different versions of the 372, one marked 'The Conway Stewart Pen' (as yours), and another one marked 'The Universal Pen'. The picture he posts of the second one indicates that this is a later pen (after 1925), and that one is certainly manufactured by CS. The information and picture he posts for the first pen was supplied in any case by David Wells, the information is the same on each of the websites.

 

Irrespective of the marking, there is no doubt that these pens originated in America. You need to remember that they were wartime pens, and for patriotic reasons it was important to tell people that the pens were made in England, even if that meant stretching the truth. For example, the basic parts could have been supplied from America and just assembled over here, or even putting on the barrel imprint in this country could have been enough to justify the claim.

 

I would suggest that the differences you see between the 372 & 372A are just down to the pens being supplied by two different American manufacturers, for example we know definitely that CS had contacts with both Diamond Point and Eclipse, and almost certainly others as well. If a later manufacturer could not supply precisely the same pen as the original 372, CS would very likely have numbered it 372A, simply a later version of the 372 (and maybe they date to after the war, so the 'Made in England' imprint might have been less important).

 

So the pens you have are very interesting, and rare, as you say - the model number 372A is a new number to add to the list of CS pen numbers that we know about. Unfortunately, rare does not necessarily mean that they are worth a lot of money, especially because of the condition of the pens. But the knowledge you have given us by reporting your find is very valuable indeed!

 

Andy


Edited by AndyR, 16 October 2014 - 09:17 AM.


#8 piscov

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Posted 16 October 2014 - 10:41 AM

Hi Andy,

 

Thank you so much for your precious help and guidance. CS is not my neck of the woods and I appreciate you taking time to reply me.

 

Today with good light I took the pictures and found out that both 372 and 372A have the Made in England Imprint. Interestingly all "Made in England" engravings are outside the engraving "box"

 

IMG_0685.JPG

 

I believe you are correct in your assumption. Pens look to have been engraved with Made in England prior to fabrication. Probably already in UK.

 

372 and 372A are really similar, including the chasing pattern, pen shape, section shape, the same feed, the same nibs and the same levers. All identical except the size ( nib and feed are identical, even in size)

 

Here are detailed pictures.

 

Conway Stewart 372 - The larger one

 

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Conway Stewart 372A - The smaller one

 

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372 and 372A side by side

 

IMG_0686.JPG

 

 

Writing sample

 

These nibs are simply amazing!!

 

I have had a Waterman #7 pink key hole nib and I must say these  Conway Stewart are far flexier and responsive. This is the first time I try a CS nib and I confess to be very impressed by them. All nibs look to be EF and all are Extra flex and responsive, I am very happy with them!!

 

IMG_0675%20%282%29.JPG

 

Vasco


Edited by piscov, 16 October 2014 - 10:45 AM.

Best regards
Vasco

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#9 AndyR

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Posted 16 October 2014 - 10:45 AM

And talking of the CS - Eclipse connection, I just saw this Eclipse pen on ebay, which looks very similar to the 372 that still has the clip!

 

http://www.ebay.co.u...=item51afb62929

 

They may or may not be related to each other. Do the sections look to be the same shape?

 

Andy



#10 AndyR

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Posted 16 October 2014 - 10:52 AM

I've just seen your new pictures, sections are similar but not as flared at the end as the Eclipse in the auction picture.

 

The nibs look great, the engraving is typical of the early CS nibs.

 

Andy



#11 piscov

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Posted 16 October 2014 - 10:53 AM

Yes.

Section, and also lever and clip look to be similar, at least from what I can discern from those ebay pictures (bad quality and very far away shots)

 

Best

 

Vasco


Edited by piscov, 16 October 2014 - 11:04 AM.

Best regards
Vasco

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#12 Innes Cate

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Posted 12 January 2016 - 08:54 PM

Hi Piscov & Andy

 

I recently acquired an estate lot of pens with a Conway Stewart No.372 included.   While googling for info on this pen I found your post so have added the following photos FYI.   My 372 pen is imprinted "THE Universal PEN" with the MADE IN ENGLAND around the barrel just below the lever along with PAT.NO.235447 which I discovered relates to the lever patent.   The cap has two indentations from where the clip has broken off - I think this is called a Z shaped clip which differs from your pen.   The measurements of my pen also differs slightly from your 372:

 

  • Total capped length:  132 mm

  • Cap length:  59.2 mm

  • Barrel & section:  107.6 mm

  • Cap diameter:  13.1 mm

  • Barrel diameter:  11.4 mm

 

My pen is fitted with a later model nib than that of yours - which I have never seen before, looks great.   I am thinking my 372 was probably made in England, hence the variation is production sizes.   Those CS trays are a great find.

 

Innes

 

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#13 AndyR

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Posted 12 January 2016 - 09:36 PM

Pretty much spot on analysis I would say, Innes!

 

The locking lever puts it after 1925, but there is only a Universal 370 (not a Universal 372) listed in the 1926 UK price list, which probably means the 372 was an export model destined for Australia & New Zealand. At this date the clip would have been as in this link for the Universal 372 from Jonathan's site http://jonathandonah...ok/cs372985.htm , not the Z clip. You'll note the dimensions Jonathan gives for that pen match yours exactly. The nib looks perfect for the c1926 date.

 

Andy



#14 Innes Cate

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Posted 12 January 2016 - 10:49 PM

Pretty much spot on analysis I would say, Innes!

 

The locking lever puts it after 1925, but there is only a Universal 370 (not a Universal 372) listed in the 1926 UK price list, which probably means the 372 was an export model destined for Australia & New Zealand. At this date the clip would have been as in this link for the Universal 372 from Jonathan's site http://jonathandonah...ok/cs372985.htm , not the Z clip. You'll note the dimensions Jonathan gives for that pen match yours exactly. The nib looks perfect for the c1926 date.

 

Andy

 

Thanks Andy - most helpful info (makes sense re the NZ export)  which I will enter into my Fountain Pen Inventory as this pen is a keeper and hopefully one day I will find that clip.

Cheers

Innes



#15 piscov

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Posted 13 January 2016 - 12:13 PM

Those are very interesting nibs. From the CS batch above I´ve kept in my collection one of each and the nibs are simply amazing! Nice find!


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Vasco

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