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PELIKAN 100N - Sticking piston seal


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#1 Innes Cate

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Posted 28 February 2015 - 09:42 PM

I have have had my vintage Pelikan 100N restored by a reputable professional which included replacing the worn cork piston seal with twin rubber seals.   When I received the pen back from its restoration the piston seal was stuck fast to the inside of the barrel.   It spent around two weeks in transit, so though it may be the humidity on the plane.  The restorer confirmed the seals are to Pelikan specification.    

 

Under video instruction I was able to the free up and remove the piston and seal and re-apply silicone grease and the seals moved freely when the knob was wound in and out. Within 24 hours the piston movement was showing signs of sticking and into 48 hours it was stuck fast again, so it wasn't flight humidity as a cause.   

 

At this point I have not replace the piston mechanism into the pen for fear of breaking parts in trying to remove it after being stuck fast.

 

The product I have used is CRC Silicone Grease - Plastic and Rubber Lubricant which states it has a temperature range of -40 deg C to 200 deg C so it will not harden, freeze, dry or melt.  A query to the CRC manufacturers confirms it is 100% silicone and is alcohol free.

 

Has anyone experienced this problem - was there anything special in overcoming it?    

 

Thanks

Innes 


Edited by Innes Cate, 28 February 2015 - 09:43 PM.


#2 piscov

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Posted 01 March 2015 - 10:40 AM

Hi Innes,

 

Can you post pictures of the seal used? Where are the seal getting stuck? ( on the rear part bellow the sleeve, or in the ink-window) What type of barrel do you have? Celluloid or acrilyc)

 

 

There are some possible causes, I list them here from what I think is more probable to the least probable ( IMO)

 

1)The seals are probably to tight for the barrel. That tends to happen when orings are used and when they are just a size to big to for the inner diameter of the barrel. A smaller one would solve the problem, but even better then orings are some nylon gaskets that David Nishimura sells. Maybe David can clarify you better.

Note: if your barrel is one of celluloid ( first ones used in 100N with cork seals) the shaft that holds the seal will not fit the seal David sells, but you can source a new shaft to fit the more modern seals. Or you can have the pen re-corked as originally they were made by Pelikan back in 1938. A good cork will last you years!!

 

3) very tiny imperfections in the inner surface of the barrel that will increase drag in the movement. Sanding and polishing the barrel from inside a bit may help, to much sanding can be a problem!

 

2) In case the barrel is of celluloid -It can also be differential  shrinkage in the barrel meaning the ID is not the same all through the course of the piston, in that case the cork will definitely be the better option as it is more elastic than any modern seal.

 

All of those problems have a solution, but in order to give you the best one more data is needed about the problem.

 

Pictures of the piston, barrel and seals used would help to find you an easy solution. The problem you have is probably not a big thing and IMHO you can solve it yourself easily, but I am sure the repair man will be glad to help you, it will just take longer :)

 

 

Hope to have helped and not cause more confusion!

 

Best Regards

 

Vasco


Edited by piscov, 01 March 2015 - 10:44 AM.

Best regards
Vasco

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#3 Christof Z

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Posted 01 March 2015 - 12:33 PM

I made similar experiences with O-rings in celluloid barrels and can not recommend this kind of repair.
It seems that O-rings can get stuck in the barrel if not moved for a longer period.
As Vasco suggests, cork would be the correct material for a proper repair job.
I never had problems with a properly fitted and with paraffine sealed cork.
C.

#4 Innes Cate

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Posted 02 March 2015 - 06:30 AM

Thanks for your helpful responses.   I have attached a couple of photos that you have asked for.   The photo of the complete pen is prior to restoration.  I would say that the barrel is celluloid.  The seals would stick either in the closed (ink in) or open (ink out) positions so that leads to the seals as the problem rather than differential sizing within the barrel.  

 

Is there a restorer that you know who would supply a cork seal 100N pre-made that I could fit myself?   Just saves on expensive shipping costs from New Zealand. 

 

Christof - can you provide more information on the "paraffine" sealed cork?   Is this liquid or wax?

 

Any further advise would be appreciated

 

Innes

 

gallery_12729_167_729979.jpg

 

gallery_12729_167_23430.jpg 


Edited by Innes Cate, 02 March 2015 - 06:32 AM.


#5 piscov

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Posted 02 March 2015 - 09:41 AM

Hi Innes,

 

Your barrel is acrylic and looks in very good condition. The orings are probably too tight. A cork would work better.

 

A ready made cork is hard to find. You will always need to tune fite it there. To be safe the cork would have to be made a bit on the large side and then you could sand it to the desired dimention. Parafin stirene or bee was bath and silicone grease would then follow to finish the job.

 

Making a cork from the start yourself is not so hard as it seems and you can do that with a drill and sand paper. I have a PDF I have made explaining how to do it. Send me your email back channel and I will send it to you.

I have seen in a thread from Christof were he also explains how he makes a cork, just cannot find it now, but if I recall correctly is in the great thread at FPN called " what´s up at Christof's", check it out. Even if you don´t find the instructions, the thread itself is worth to be read!

 

The paraffin will fill the micro porous of the cork and extend the life and also lube it a bit. Before I install the cork I also use a bit of silicone grease to lube it more.

 

By the way, the top cap and the rear knob look also acrylic judging by the colour and brightness of the parts. Only the cap tube and the sleeve is celluloid, so I would say that piston shaft can be replaced by a more modern one and you can use a nylon gasket bought from David Nishimura. Check them out here:

9900sub.jpg

 

So I would say:

 

1) to keep that piston shaft, use a cork.

 

2) If you can source a more modern piston shaft ( from a later 100N or 400 pen, buy one of those nylon seals and install it yourself. The pen would be historically correct IMHO.

 

Hope it helps

 

Vasco


Edited by piscov, 06 March 2015 - 11:05 AM.

Best regards
Vasco

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#6 D Armstrong

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Posted 03 March 2015 - 01:19 AM

Hi Innes,

 

Vasco has made some good recommendations, but I thought I might just add a couple of thoughts.

 

First, o-rings might be similar in size to a Pelikan's barrel inner diameter, but they are never to truly to spec, because Pelikan didn't ever use them. You have found out the hard way why it doesn't pay to fiddle too much with what the original manufacturer did (although others may well dispute that opinion!)

 

If you do switch the shaft with one that uses a gasket, it will not be historically correct; it wasn't on the pen to begin with. That would need to be disclosed, should you decide to sell it. (Although the Nishimura gaskets are, indeed, an excellent and unequaled product.)

 

A good cork fit is not difficult for practiced hands, but may not be something you should try on your own if you haven't done it before. As Vasco quite accurately pointed out, it's not the general fit that counts, it's the fine-tuning of it to that particular pen.

 

This is a lovely and valuable pen. No matter how careful you are, doing work like this causes stress to it. In fact, fitting piston seals causes more stress than many other repairs, and this pen has had quite a bit of that stress lately. Your best option would be to send it back to the original repair person with a request to repair it properly (with a cork gasket), or to find another more experienced repair person who can do this for you.

 

Hope this helps.


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#7 piscov

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Posted 03 March 2015 - 09:41 PM


If you do switch the shaft with one that uses a gasket, it will not be historically correct; it wasn't on the pen to begin with. That would need to be disclosed, should you decide to sell it. (Although the Nishimura gaskets are, indeed, an excellent and unequaled product.)

 

 

 

I don´t  quite agree with this point D. Armstrong makes.
In my opinion the pen now is historically incorrect as is because the red parts look to me of plastic and not red hard rubber and the  grip  section is not edged , so that would put he pen in the later ones ( after 1949) and those should already have the Rubber or nylon seals that uses the more recent shaft I suggested (cork was replaced as of 1942).

 


Best regards
Vasco

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#8 Christof Z

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Posted 04 March 2015 - 05:35 AM

If you do switch the shaft with one that uses a gasket, it will not be historically correct; it wasn't on the pen to begin with. That would need to be disclosed, should you decide to sell it. (Although the Nishimura gaskets are, indeed, an excellent and unequaled product.)



I don´t quite agree with this point D. Armstrong makes.
In my opinion the pen now is historically incorrect as is because the red parts look to me of plastic and not red hard rubber and the grip section is not edged , so that would put he pen in the later ones ( after 1949) and those should already have the Rubber or nylon seals that uses the more recent shaft I suggested (cork was replaced as of 1942).


Absolutely correct. This is a barrel made between 49 and 54. No cork seal originally. But this is a repair you can see sometimes. Repairmen took an older piston shaft in lack of proper seals. I have seen this also on a Pelikan 400. I think that Vascos suggestion is quite reasonable. Get a proper piston rod and seals from David Nishimura* and you probably will never have any Problems.

* Note: there are two different sizes existing. Buy both to be sure to have the correct one.

The paraffine that I use is not liquid. You have to melt it for soaking the seal.
C.

Edited by Christof Z, 04 March 2015 - 05:36 AM.


#9 Innes Cate

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Posted 04 March 2015 - 09:05 AM

With the help of Vasco who is providing me with the correct shaft for this model and I will fit the David Nishimura seals and then it will be good to go.

Thanks for all your input as it certainly has provided me a greater insight to my Pelikan 100N.

 

Innes



#10 piscov

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Posted 04 March 2015 - 09:25 AM

By the way, that is a 101N :)


Best regards
Vasco

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#11 David Nishimura

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Posted 05 March 2015 - 04:37 PM

Pelikans can be finicky, as there are often small variations in the inside barrel diameter that are just enough that one has to adjust the seals to fit.

 

While there is no doubt that O-rings are "stickier" than cork seals, there is something amiss if in a particular installation they are getting completely stuck to the barrel walls in the space of 48 hours.

 

I keep a good number of piston-fillers in inventory, which have O-ring replacement seals and celluloid barrels -- mostly Pelikans, Aurora 88s, and Conklin Nozacs. I periodically take them out and check that the seals aren't sticking, but this is something I typically do once every few months, not every day!

 

Pelikan barrels in acrylic are generally slightly smaller inside than barrels in celluloid -- about 0.1mm. That is likely why the O-rings were sticking.



#12 Innes Cate

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Posted 19 March 2015 - 03:35 AM

Final update - correct shaft received from Vasco and matching silicone seals received from David's Vintagepens.com which I fitted to the pen with a little silicone grease.

 

Outcome - the piston mechanism is working correctly in drawing ink and discharging with no leaks.  The piston seal is no longer sticking and the Ink starts instantly at the nib when writing.  

 

I now know my pen is actually a Pelikan 101N being manufactured 1949 - 1956 (not the earlier model that I first thought) and have learn't a lot more through the feedback and contribution of you guys to this Post.

 

Many thanks

Innes 


Edited by Innes Cate, 19 March 2015 - 10:19 PM.





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