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Parker 51 Fishscale 1941? General MacArther questions?

parker 51 fishscale ebay true false 1941 general MacArther WWII

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#1 Reaper

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Posted 29 August 2015 - 12:06 PM

Can I get you all's expert opinion of the Parker 51 "fish scale" on Ebay claiming General MacArthur purchase them in 1941 in Israel? What I found was MacArther was never in Israel? Here is the auction number please forgive me i do not know how to list the link:  ebay auction # 121738650843

 

here is the link :    

http://www.ebay.com/...-/121738650843?


Edited by Reaper, 29 August 2015 - 04:29 PM.


#2 Reaper

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Posted 29 August 2015 - 12:09 PM

Here is what I found on MacArthurs whereabouts in 1941 WWII: 

MacArthur was recalled to active duty in 1941 as commander of United States Army Forces in the Far East. A series of disasters followed, starting with the destruction of his air forces on 8 December 1941, and the invasion of the Philippines by the Japanese. MacArthur's forces were soon compelled to withdraw to Bataan, where they held out until May 1942. In March 1942, MacArthur, his family and his staff left nearby Corregidor Island in PT boats and escaped to Australia, where MacArthur became Supreme CommanderSouthwest Pacific Area. For his defense of the Philippines, MacArthur was awarded the Medal of Honor. After more than two years of fighting in the Pacific, he fulfilled a promise to return to the Philippines. He officially accepted Japan's surrender on 2 September 1945, aboard the USS Missouri anchored in Tokyo Bay, and oversaw the occupation of Japan from 1945 to 1951. As the effective ruler of Japan, he oversaw sweeping economic, political and social changes. He led the United Nations Command in the Korean War until he was removed from command by President Harry S. Truman on 11 April 1951. He later became Chairman of the Board of Remington Rand.



#3 Reaper

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Posted 29 August 2015 - 12:11 PM

Just trying to find out if it were possible this was MacArthur's Parker 51? If it is it belongs in a museum!


Edited by Reaper, 29 August 2015 - 12:11 PM.


#4 Reaper

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Posted 29 August 2015 - 12:14 PM

David I can you help me out with this?



#5 Norm

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Posted 29 August 2015 - 04:11 PM

Well to me, I would have serious doubts about the authenticity of the pen.  That certificate does not certify that McArthur actually owned the pen.  That box looks very un vintage and un Parker and Parker pens advertised that Eisenhower used Parker 51's and it is even documented that Parker gave several 51 sets to Eisenhower.   There are pictures of Eisenhower holding 51's They also advertised that McArthur used a Big Red Duofold to sign the surrender documents aboard the USS Missouri and there is a picture of that,  but there has been no documentation that I know about where it was ever mentioned that McArthur owned a 51. 


Edited by Norm, 29 August 2015 - 04:14 PM.


#6 Reaper

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Posted 29 August 2015 - 04:19 PM

Thank you Norm.. I messaged the seller about the MacArthur theory.. And sent him a history lesson. My question is was there fish scales in production that early 1942?

 

I just had to post this for you all to see, #1: it is unbelievable $25,000 (i offered him $2500) #2: if it was MacArthur's Parker it should be in a museum.

 

Here is what they replied to my question of authenticity and my offer:

 

The pen is belong to the father of my best friend. He is a pen collector.

The pen was bought from the US and you can see on the listing the certificate of the listing it was bought from.

 

He bought it from Dana pens in Israel and this is the most respected place for pens in Israel.

 

Its worth calling them and ask them for more information about this pen.

 

He bought it for large amount of money so I dont think there is a chance he will accept thia offer.

 

Thanks

 

- quadrone



#7 Norm

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Posted 30 August 2015 - 05:58 PM

1941 is when Parker 51's first became available the public in the USA.  First year pens, at least the early ones had aluminum jewels.  This one has a plastic jewel. I don't know when fish scale caps first were made but it would probably be worth $2500 alone if it weren't for the name engraved on the cap.  Of course it would be worth more if it really belonged to McArthur. Since the seller said it was purchased in Israel, I wonder if there is a date on the bill of sale?  Israel wasn't a country in 1941. It didn't exist until 1948. I am older than Israel. 


Edited by Norm, 30 August 2015 - 06:06 PM.


#8 vintage penman

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Posted 30 August 2015 - 08:49 PM

As bent as can be I'd say.

Who knows when the engraving went on for starters........... I smell an opportunist hoping some unfounded provenance will increase his pen's value tenfold. I suspect that all he has managed to do is reduce it tenfold with that strangely modern looking inscription.



#9 Reaper

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Posted 31 August 2015 - 02:44 PM

Norm Thank you I had been focusing on General MacArtur's whereabouts in 1942, I did not think about when Israel became a country.. I have attached the Hebrew Certificate I am not sure but it looks like it was purchased in 2011 not 1942?

http://www.ebay.com/...item1c583064db 



#10 Reaper

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Posted 31 August 2015 - 02:45 PM

Norm Thank you I had been focusing on General MacArtur's whereabouts in 1942, I did not think about when Israel became a country.. I have attached the Hebrew Certificate I am not sure but it looks like it was purchased in 2011 not 1942? Also here is the link to the relished Parker 51 fish scale, he resisted it in an auction starting price $25,000 dollars.. 

http://www.ebay.com/...item1c583064db 

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Edited by Reaper, 31 August 2015 - 02:48 PM.


#11 Norm

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Posted 01 September 2015 - 12:24 AM

The case for this pen's original ownership is getting weaker and weaker.


Edited by Norm, 01 September 2015 - 01:22 AM.


#12 BrianMcQueen

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Posted 01 September 2015 - 02:07 PM

Note that the certificate doesn't certify that Douglas MacArthur owned the pen.  The only thing it certifies is that it is a genuine Parker 51.

 

(And that it has a Fhish scale cap)


Edited by BrianMcQueen, 01 September 2015 - 02:09 PM.


#13 Reaper

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Posted 24 September 2015 - 05:53 PM

Note that the certificate doesn't certify that Douglas MacArthur owned the pen.  The only thing it certifies is that it is a genuine Parker 51.

 

(And that it has a Fhish scale cap)

The certs were the first thing I noticed.. and I sent him a message telling him he had a fine Parker 51 double jewel with  "Fishscale" caps and offered him a generous $2500 but he kept insisting it was McArthurs pen? I quoted history of McArthurs whereabouts during that time period and reminded him that Israel was not a country until 1948 (thanks to NORM's input, Thank you Norm) and offered him a little lower price for the fish scales, But honestly would not want those since they engraved the caps.. I told the seller if this Parker 51 belonged to McArthur the Parker 51 belonged in a museum and I told him, he needed more than those certs that only certify a genuine Parker 51...







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