7 replies to this topic

[MxMJ]

David, this is the pen you unknowningly reminded me to buy. I can't believe it went unsold for so long.

 

The only information I have found about it is from the website of the late John C Loring:

"JFK or LBJ? Parker 45 'Demonstrator' perhaps the first Parker 'bill signer' - I am advised (second hand) that a gentleman who worked as a Congressional Aide saw President LBJ sign a bill using the Parker '45'  'Demonstrator' with an eagle seal pictured at page 10 and then was given the pen by LBJ.   Thus we now know that notwithstanding the non-presidential seal it is a 'presidential' pen that entered the White House either during the JFK or the LBJ administration and at least had limited use by LBJ as a billsigner.  While I could not find out which bill or date of signing, it would seem probable that it occurred during the period LBJ was using the Esterbrook 'bill signer' and before he settled on the Parker Eversharp felt tip.  Thus while it has long been believed that the Parker Eversharp was the first of the Parker bill signers it now appears that that 'honor' belongs to the Parker 45 'Demonstrator'."

 

The pen he had is pictured on the sale page, the seal on his is blue while mine is gold.

 

 

 

 

Does anyone have any more information about these? Has anyone even seen any others?

[david i]

Great find. Yep, a Demo apparently with a Presidential seal.

 

Provenance is limited, as the above quotes seem to be hearsay, but no doubt a clear 45 with that seal would command a nice premium over the typical pen.

 

regards

 

d

[Norm]

I have seen a lot of pens being offered with hearsay provenance but actual bill signers come with a presentation box and a typewritten note stating when it was used and what bill was signed with it, unless that paper has been lost of course. 

 

 

Johnson used Esterbrook dipless pens as bill signers until he switched to felt tip pens in 1965. He may have used Parkers at some time but initially, at least, he used Eversharps which were made by Parker.  Parker had purchased the writing division of Eversharp.  Eversharp bill signers have both the Presidential seal and a replica of Johnsons signature. This pen was presented together with the Eversharp and an unused Esterbrook.  The imprint The White House The President changed whenever a new batch of pens was delivered to the White House.  Eisenhower pens were appox 138mm. Kennedy used some of them before his pens with a 140 imprint was used and Johnson used some Kennedy pens before his pens with 142 imprint.  Johnson was the first president to switch to felt tip pens. He took the unused Esterbrook pens with him and sold them at his library as souvenir.  At some point someone bought up all the remaining pens and some time later some of the 142 mm pens started showing up with the claim that they were in Kennedy's office when he was assignated.  

 

At each bill signing ceremony, several pens were used and given to those invited to attend.  The people who were there were people who took part in getting the bill passed.

Edited by Norm, 02 September 2015 - 11:00 PM.

[MxMJ]

T1Love over on FPN knows of two of these, identical to mine that came from a Parker exec. Here are my current thoughts.

 

Given that

1. 45 Demonstrators were not sold to the public.
2. 45 Demonstrators with the Great Seal of the USA were not sold to the public or to Pen Dealers.
3. LBJ was apparently seen using a P45 Demonstrator at least once but much more commonly used Esterbrook desk pens or Parker/Eversharp felt tip pens.
4. T1Love knows of two identical to mine that certainly were never in the White House.

I suspect that Parker made these as an example for the White House, for one reason or another they were not selected or used much. Maybe LBJ didn't like them. Then Parker was left with P45 Demos imprinted with the Seal that they couldn't actually sell. So John Gibb (or other Parker employees) gave them away. My pen theoretically could have been used my LBJ but it is very unlikely, and since I don't have any documentation, I will assume that it was not.

 

I think that is fairly safe to say? Correct me if I'm wrong on any of the points.

Edited by MxMJ, 03 September 2015 - 12:24 AM.

[Norm]

The GSO supplied Esterbrook pens to the president, post office, Senate, Army, Navy, etc. They all were imprinted with the dept. to which they were going.  The president used them to sign bills.  Around the time Johnson switched to Eversharp bill signing pens is about the same time the GSO started suppling BPs instead of dip pens and also close to the time Esterbrook went out of business.  Fountain pens were out of general favor by the mid 1960's.  I don't know the thought process that the Johnson administration went through before choosing the Eversharp for the new bill signers.  I know several pen companies sent sample pens to the president for consideration as presidential pens,  but cheap pens were the norm for bill signers.  Johnson was the first one to have a replica of his signature on the bill signers.  I notice the demonstrator has the Great Seal on it but it does not have The Seal of the President of the United States around it like the bill signer that I have. 

 

The 45 was introduced by Parker while Kennedy was president so it is not out of the realm of possibility that it could have been submitted to either Kennedy or Johnson for consideration as a gift pen or perhaps even a presidential pen.  Just FYI I read once that Truman had the Presidential seal changed so the eagle's head was turned away from the arrows of war and toward the symbol of peace side. i have not confirmed that though.

 

PS: the felt tip part of the bill signer and the 45 fountain pen part are interchangeable. 

Edited by Norm, 03 September 2015 - 03:10 AM.

[Norm]

I just did some googling and noticed that the seal of your pen is the Great Seal of the United States and that is different from the Seal of the President.  

 

Great seal has stars in a cloud over the eagle's head

 

and the presidential seal is different.

 

 

 

The banner in the eagle's mouth is different on the two also.

Edited by Norm, 03 September 2015 - 02:53 AM.

[MxMJ]

Yeah, this definitely is the great seal. Turns out it also is the seal on the T1 ballpoint I have.

[MxMJ]

I messaged the seller asking if they knew where it came from (why didn't I do that first? doh.) Here is what they said (grain of salt, blah blah)

 

"It came from a Marine Corps colonel who worked in the White House under four presidents. This pen actually came from the White House. It was given to him by a Marine Corps General."