No David you're wrong.

I'm done with it.

My only problem was I inadvertently deleted the messages from the seller.
Exception being the first one.

Enjoy your playground

Steve

good luck on your sale then. hope you make a nice fat profit, which you so richly deserve, being so smart and honest at the same time. welcome to FPB--we could use your moral guidance here, for sure!

Thank you
Steve

i'd have to wonder where the joy is in going out of one's way to make anyone feel awful, especially an innocent party like the seller seems to be.
There was NO joy. In fact I apologized that a member of the pen community would take advantage of someone.
I didn't make the seller feel awful. The person that "tricked" them did.
The seller was grateful for the knowledge. And quite frankly. Happy for it and glad I'd been able to acquire the pen.


in any case, the practical result is that a valuable item has been acquired--*honestly*, it has to be emphasized--through someone else's duplicity, if it can be called that, and will soon turn a tidy profit. the *virtuous* fellow wins and is handsomely rewarded

Seems to me most of this transaction illustrates what's really good about the eBay marketplace. The seller was happy (for a little while anyway) because he got a lot more than he expected. Win. Buyer was happy because he paid a lot less than he could have. Win. The only loser was the one who tried to get away with something, and I think that's just fine. Too bad it couldn't have been left that way. The seller would have been content to know he got what he did because it's a rare find. Now he's going to expect a lot more next time from something likely worth a lot less, which I think is also too bad.
Again, the seller ASKED me. I don't taunt them with the information.
If One more semi-educated. Or certainly more skeptical seller is created. Then I'm satisfied.
Yeah too bad. The pen might actually go for some kind of a market price instead of a low ball offer.

There is a certain local antique dealer who I've gotten a number of great deals from. Before I bought my Blue Balance from him I told him it was a special pen only made for one year, and that I really wanted it. I also told him it was in unusually good condition. After paying for it I didn't yell "Sucker!" and do a happy dance in the store. I said thank you and that they always treat me great and that it's my favorite place to buy pens. I like knowing that I'll likely continue to get great deals. I'm pretty sure they like to sell stuff. We all win.
I have bought many pens. I ask the seller what they want for it. If I like the price I buy it.
I don't say hey this is just a red pen. You want 300 Will you take 50?
I've paid honest and fair prices for nearly all my pens. Yes I've gotten a few sumgais. Never under the cloak of deception, however.
Let's be cl;eaar. I did not do a happy dance in the face of the seller. I was asked and I gave an honest answer.
They had a follow up question. Specific to the pen's value and I honestly answered that one, too..

Tim

A. You map a general concept (my discussion of back channeling) onto specific circumstance. I have noted there is room for backchannel dealings. You have created a straw man in making my opening in that venue synonymous with Sucker's Deal on a red pen. Naughty.
Naughty. Please David. It's no straw man. I bring up our past discussions to illustrate my abhorrence for back channel dealings.
It is quite applicable in this instance.


B. You have taken advantage of what you call a "Sucker's Deal", which is fine, but let's be clear on that fact.
I did not in any way take advantage of the sucker's deal. I bought a pen that as far as I knew was offered by the seller for X price. Period. I bear no culpability whatsoever.
I would have had to have known about the BIN back channel deal. I assure. I had no knowledge of it.


C. You have invoked bad JuJu or whatever you care to call it, by giving pain to a Seller who did no wrong to you and from whom you have benefited. I would worry about that more than the general concept of back channel dealings, in the universe of Karma.
Please don't degrade another's beliefs. It is very unbecoming. I don't poke fun at you when you won't eat shellfish. Right?
What you don't know. Is that I did answer the question. I did explain that it is an uncommon, scarce, pen. The seller replied asking me what it should be "worth".
I can bear no responsibility for any bad feelings. Between the seller and the original flim flam artist. (attempted)


C. To degree you believe you owe the seller nothing, that is not true. By any system so quaint as to invoke Karma, to not cause harm to one who has not you caused harm clearly is something you do owe. You, after all, invoked the Karma thing, so for the moment we will play along with that notion. The harm was not in buying the pen. The harm was telling him he was a sucker.
Well, as you are obviously ignorant of the true laws of Karma. I'll make this brief.
Karma is not in play when honesty is invoked.

Probably the person in this dynamic who has done the most personal harm is you.
I've done no personal harm. I saw a pen listed. I bought it.
My telling the seller of its true worth. Can only be seen as helping them.
The hurt seems to be. That now there is one less ignorant seller for people to take advantage of. People that think Back channel deals are OK.

Karma. Interesting notion. Once again. Your condescending attitude is quite disgusting

-d

The pen is here. It was a sucker deal.

My Karma point is this.
The entire scenario, that you've publicly supported, of back channel off board dealings is my issue.

I owe the seller nothing. I paid what they asked for the pen.
The Karma is on the person that instigated the deal in the first place.

It is quite simple.
The only way an offer to get a seller to change their auction is deceptive and dishonorable.
It takes advantage of them. Period.

Never mind, that other bidders are robbed of the chance to openly bid on the item.

I did email the seller. I did tell them the pen has a much higher value than what they sold it for.
As expected. They feel duped.


Steve

David
We have been around this bend before.
I won't rehash the entire difference of opinion that we have.

I'll just say that Karma isn't delivered in Degrees.
It's wrong or it's not wrong.
Back channel offers are a way of taking advantage of another human being.
Never mind Pen buyer and Pen seller.

I assure you. In my response to this seller.
I made it plainly clear that they screwed themselves by accepting this offer.

Steve

p.s. not debating the point. We just disagree.

I asked the seller what happened.
Here is their reply:

hi , another person wanted to buy it for $85 so I relisted it with a buy it now price, and you snagged it up before he had a chance to purchase it. Lucky you. I was shocked to find out that it was worth that much. Now I have a question for you, if you don't mind? What makes it so valuable? Thank you.


Now my dilemma is do I tell them that it is worth significantly more than the Buy It Now sucker deal they accepted.

Steve

I wouldn't dream of gluing a pen.
But
Thanks

Steve

So I'm the one that bought the Red Secretary.

The pen was put up originally at about 8:30PDT
I never saw the first listing.
I saw the Buy-It-Now for $85.00 within minutes of it being re-listed.

I never spoke with nor emailed the seller in any way.
I've also no idea why they changed the listing.

Theory:
Some one did contact them.
Asked them to take an offer.
They changed the listing
I got very very lucky and bought the pen. Before the other buyer got it.
If so. I'm grateful they honored their listing for anyone.


It happens.


Don't worry.
I'll have it for sale soon enough.

It's a pretty nice pen. BTW

Steve

Ok here I am...

For the majority of the "Parker Vacs' they have all had the fillers removed a plug of ebonite glued in, with I have no idea what, then the exposed plug part is threaded to match the blind cap.
More often than not the blind cap has been glued in place. I have tried heat etc but to no avail.
The blind caps aren't removable. Well, not by this hack.

My limited understanding is that these were 'found' without gold nibs, feeds or fillers.

I did get a WILSON that has a plastic vac filler unit that is restored and working as a Vacumatic would.
A breather tube was necessary but it fills well.

So long story just a bit longer.
NO they can't be returned to their original state of a Parker Vacumatic.

However, if you need a clip ,a cap or blind cap feel free to buy them.

Thank you

Steve

p.s. I'll buy Rick if we find some daggone pens and it isn't 110* in the shade!

This one I've had for a bit. Writes great by the way.

Steve