I just love to do writing samples. That's why I always provide some at my sales.

...and they looks good. It's kind of advertisement I think.
And sometimes, I only want to show how really cool a pen does write.

I also did some very special writing samples for very special pens like this:

I am more collector than seller, that's why I can take the time I want for a sale. It's part of the hobby for me I think.
Christof

Great pens, great writing!!!

To me, whether a writing sample is useful or not is up to the buyer's decision, and taking into account the limitations of internet transactions, I would not purchase from a a seller who is not willing to produce that at the request of a serious buyer. If I sold pens online, I would see that as part of my job.

Regards

 

 snip
The only converter that fits this pen is the so called red-button converter.

The push-button converter? The one I have has a black button.

 

Sorry, it's black indeeed 

Frankly, even I was surprised that no one else happened upon this or tried to snipe it, 

Little wonder when you read the careless auction tittle: Sheaffers White dot Lifetime Ink Pen. # 2

If the seller had headlined the auction with Sheaffer Imperial cartridge pen maybe he would have got a better deal (and you a worse one).

The only converter that fits this pen is the so called red-button converter.

From the ebonite feed (which we haven't seen yet) and the plastic thread, the evidence suggest that we can safely say that the OP's pen is from 1975-1990. So our controversy refers to the earlier part of this period, that is to say 1975-80.

The evidence for a pre-1980 production would be the "german" inscription in the clip ring and the testimony of our fellow member AeRoberto, who has claimed he has one like the OP's from the late 1970s. The evidence agains the 14K nib, which appears later in the MB149 production.

Concerning the "germany" inscription you have disregarded the evidence by saying it is meaningless without telling why. However, I've seen quite a few 1970s 149 pens -including one I own- with that inscription, whereas never seen one from that period with w-Germany. While I'm not prepared to assert that the "germany" inscription was replaced with the "w-germany" by 1980 as many people in FPN contend, I don't have reasons to claim that such contention is "meaningless" or unfounded.

As to testimonies of people, I would invite AeRoberto to expand his statement given in a post above. Does he keep a record of when he bought the pen? If he can confirm his statement I must say that to me it would be more trustable than anything said on the Penboard site. They are sellers and quite "hetherodox" -to put it mildly- about the characteristics of their pens:nibs that do not correspond with the pen advertised, etc.

Regards 

-I have a similar pen found in the wild in a box that has the "Art of Writing" slogan.  This began in the mid to late 1980s.  Boxes can be easily switched, but no one else has offered anything more substantial as evidence for dating.

 

As you say, boxes can be switched. In addition, old stock of pens manufactured in the late 1970s or early 1980s could have been sold years later.

 

-According to the Barry Gabay article on the 149 in Pen World, the brass threads on the piston started in 1990 (p. 42). The FPN charts shows 1985 as the date for this transition, but there are lots of 149s with two piece barrels and plastic piston threads, so I believe the chart is wrong.

 

Yes, if BarrY Gabay is right, the chart is wrong on this point.

 

-The Germany vs W Germany designation of the clip is meaningless.

 

Could you possibly share with us the reasons why you think that is meaningless?

 

Here is a similar pen being sold on penboard.de that is dated to the 1980s by Tom Westerich:

http://penboard.de/s...blanc 146 61576

 

In that ad we don't see the piston knob's threads or the feed. But let's suppose they are made of plastic and ebonite, respectively. If as you suggest we have to take Tom Westerich's word for granted, he dates the pen in the early 1980s, which is not compatible with your Art of Writing argument above.

 

 

I don`t think that the pens look like Montblancs. 

 

Thomas, when I mentioned the similarity with Montblanc I was not speaking of all Mercedes pens in general, but of my model 55 in particular, the one that I showed in my post above.

The facetted pen is a stunner!!!!

Hi,

I've taken a look and see that it follows the same layout as martiniauctions, which is a bit dissapointing as I believe that interface is confusing. Some items are displayed first, but then, if you scroll down find a list of other items. What are those items featured first? highlighted items? randomly selected items?

Best regards

Thanks for the information Thomas, and impressive collection. Mercedes are not pens that show up easily on e-Bay and the usual sale channels. So I guess yours must be one of the most comprehensive collections of these pens. I had never seen so many together.

From what you say apparently Mercedes pens (it sounds almost like Mercedes Penz ;-)) were produced from the 20s/30s to the 50s/60s. I guess the red ebonite one is from early production whereas my model 55 is from the 1950s. I have no basis to say that, but that 55 reminds me the 2nd and 3rd tier Montblancs of the period.

Best regards

Carlos

Taking into account that the pen shows plastic threads at the filling knob, if it also happens to sport the split ebonite converter you can narrow down the date to the range 1975-1985. That is because the split ebonite converter was used from 1975 to the early 1990s while the plastic threads were used before 1985.

On top of that, since the w-germany inscription was only seen between the early 1980s and the early 1990s and before that it was used "germany" (I've got a 149s dated in 1972 with that mark in the clip ring), then my guess is that your pen can be reasonably dated in 1975-1980.

I've seen very few 146 clips marked 14C instead of 14K, so maybe14 K was used in these 146 pens before it was extended to MB149 as from 1985.

The blue Mercedes with the snake clip is gorgeous.

We know very little from this German penmaker, don't we? Apparently it was established in Heidelberg, like many other German penmakers in the 1940s and 1950s and there has been some controversy about whether the founder, a Köenig, was or not a Montblanc former employee. Apparently he was not.

Regards

I also have a Mercedes. I reckon mine is from the fifties. It sports a broad oblique gold nib and I would say its quality is at least as good as any second or third tier Montblanc of the period. In fact, by contrast with my Montblanc pens of the 1940s and 1950s, the Mercedes has the cork intact and takes ink perfectly after more than 50 years.

Cheers

Carlos

Amazing thread and amazing mini/focused collections, but I cannot compete in this league  It's a thread for big collectors.

Interesting to learn the clip was plain on white dot models - it also, IMO, makes for a sleeker design.

I'm finding the nib is writing a little dry (using Diamine Quartz Black). Are the Touchdowns often dry?

I'd rather say there was no imprint on the clips of the 1961 Imperial IV (your pen) and most other white dot pens of the period, but there was at least another line of white dot pens that had an imprint on the clip: the 1963 Sheaffer's Lifetime pens, which had "Lifetime" engraved on the clip.

Difficult to say what kind of nib your pen sports without a close-up of the nib at several angles.

Regards

Deleted

 

Pics have been  taken with an i-Phone this afternoon and I've used original Sheaffer's advertisements from the 1963 series "What will it be like the 21st Century" as a background. They predicted 50 years ago that on 21st century Christmas we will receive such presents as a device for instant mail delivery and camera glasses !!! 

 

 

Hi Idazle,

 

Those adverts are fantastic! I'd love email to work that way

Do you have a photo of them straight on?

Best wishes

Robin

 

Hi Robin,

I'm glad you've liked them. Maybe those who invented the email got the whole thing wrong. The Sheaffer's 1964 idea would have made a friendlier, nicer email ;-) They also prefigured the Google Glasses and the mobile TV.

Have a happy New Year 2014!!!

Carlos

Penmex, outstanding collection. Is the Imperial Meisterwek a Montblanc pen?

Hope this helps to answer only some of your questions.

Christof

It does indeed!! A very enlightening post on cork made piston fillers Christof. A pleasure to read you ;-)

By way of conclusion, I think I'll proceed to empty the pens that I've had filled with water during a few days now and keep them dry for a couple of months or so. I will then test them again and if they don't take water will have a professional repair to fit fresh lubricated corks.

Thanks so much for your help.

Carlos

So, I've been converted - and who couldn't like Parker pens, the founders are such nice people!  The Great Grandson has co-authored a book - has anyone read it?  Any recommendations for books on Collecting Parker. 

 

Gary

 

You already had one: the Shepperd and Zazove's book on Duofold (old and news), which is now on my working table along with my black Duofolds. See below:

But I would also consider a more generalist book, such as Andrea Lambrou's Fountain Pens of the World. Apart from being a very beautiful book, it can open your mind to vintage pens other than Parker.

Yeah.  We might need to change, at least for this thread, from "mini" to "focused", and at some point play with defining a top end for "mini"

 

"Focused" on very rare, difficult to find, real vintage pens to stun the world (and your fellow members) maybe? 

Hello!

 

I'm a 17 year old guy from Michigan who has recently become enamored with fountain pens. I recently mustered up enough cash to buy two LAMY Safari's, a Joy, and a bottle of PR Avacado. Since I picked up the first pen, I couldn't stop writing. I actually enjoy taking notes now, and my handwriting has improved significantly. 

I really like saturated inks from what I've seen and love colors that are strong but subtle. If anyone had any suggestions of inks please let me know! (And if anyone would be willing to send me a few samples or anything, I would be ecstatic...if not I won't be disappointed.)

I've been eyeing the TWSBI mini and Pilot Prera, and am currently saving up enough to buy them. (I'm 1/10th of the way there..wooo).

 

Merry Christmas!

 

Kind regards,

 

JDP

Though I'm a newcomer too I also want to say welcome :-)

I also like saturated inks. In fact I've got my Lamy Joy (1.5mm italic nib) inked with one of those inks, the discontinued Parker Penman Sapphire. By the way, Lamy Joys are great pens. I lernt italic penmanship with them.

About the Parker 45, I love them but from the ones I've used I have the impression that when they say they were designed to compete with ballpens in the early sixties they did not refer to marketing aspects only. Thus even medium points lay down dry lines on the fine side, probably what one would expect from a ballpen.

Vintage pens are OK, but to me what is really important is to have fun when writing with a fountain pen, and that sensation can be obtained with both old and new pens. Write on!!!

Carlos

 

I always thought that it would be cool to create a list of iconic vintage pens that are a cross representation of the bigger makers, or that were significant that they should be included in a sampling of the period, say 1900-1970

For example...

Parker duofold
Parker vacumatic
Parker 51
Parker 75


That's a basic off the top of my head list, and certainly arguments could be made one way or another, but it would be like a "type collection" as they have in coin collecting.

 

While I would agree it doesn't have the cachet of it's higher priced brethren, I think it's hard to omit the one pen with the longest continuous production period for Parker. The P-45.

 

Bruce in Ocala, Fl

 

+1 

SHEAFFER'S IMPERIAL FAMILY IN BLACK

All pens shown below came to me with their original chalkmarks. The first one, the PFM I, has lost them as I use it as a frequent writer.

From left to right:

1. 1959 PFM I snorkel pen with palladium nib.

2. 1959 PFM IIII snorkel pen with gold nib.

3. 1960 Compact II. By contrast with the blue model shown in the previous post, this doesn't come with the visulated barrel. Both types were part of Sheaffer's regular production at the time.

3. 1961 Imperial IV. This particular exemplar here has a chalkmark indicating a price of $13.50, which suggests that it is probably a later production as the pen was originally priced at $12.50 in 1961.

4. 1963 1250 Lifetime

I've thought it interesting to show the original cases too:

SHEAFFER'S IMPERIAL FAMILY IN BLUE

In Sheaffer's taxonomy, Imperials were the pens produced in the 1960s and early 1970s with a design inspired by the famous 1959 PFM and its inlaid nib.

Pics have been  taken with an i-Phone this afternoon and I've used original Sheaffer's advertisements from the 1963 series "What will it be like the 21st Century" as a background. They predicted 50 years ago that on 21st century Christmas we will receive such presents as a device for instant mail delivery and camera glasses !!! 

With the exception of the blue PFM III, all pens came to my hands NOS and with chalkmarks,

From left to right:

1. 1959 PFM III snorkel pen with gold nib. This was the first model to sport the famous Sheaffer's inlaid nib.

2. 1960 Compact II, Sheaffer's first premium line of cartridge pens sporting a gold inlaid nib which sold at $10, the same price as the PFM I

3. 1961 Imperial IV, the proper Imperial, a pen which was modelled on the PFM III but was slender and with the simpler touchdown filling system. It was sold at $12.50

4. 1963 1250 Lifetime, a cartridge pen with gold inlaid nib which was launched to mark Sheaffer's 50th anniversary 50 years ago. It was shaped like the Imperial IV and sold at the same price tag but used cartridges only. I find it amazing the advertising campaing that accompanied this pen, which forecasted that 50 years later -that is, in 2013- we would still be using the pen ... as I actually am 

1.

2.

3.

4.

5. 1973 Sheaffer Triumph. In this pic I have included this small pen with inlaid steel nib that uses both cartridges and a squeeze converter.

 

My pleasure Gary.

 

The Montblanc's that you collect, does it make a difference to you if they are in original condition or completely overhauled?

 

 

As a general principle, it does make a difference to me whether a pen is or not in original condition. All my Parkers and Sheaffers are in mint original condition. My red 1926 Senior Duofold certainly is. However, when talking of vintage MB I feel I have to relax that rule as most pens from the late 1930s and 1940s have been reassembled from parts either during the harsh war and post-war times or recently by unscrupulous dealers. Of course there are vintage MB pens in original condition, but it is difficult to tell them apart and they generally come at high prices.

 

Carlos:

 

Why do you say that vintage 30-to 50´s MB are more prone to be found already altered than any other brand?

 

I don't agree with that statement. From my experience all brands have the exact same problem and most pens do not arrive to me altered. On top of that if a pen does need a replacement part as long as an exact original, similar and same age replacement part is used the pen will remain original.  Some arrive needing repair and I do some of those repairs myself and have professionals do others, but I have never noticed that MB pens arrive to me more tweaked that any other brand and 99% of them arrive in all original condition.

 

Pelikan, Sheaffer, Parker, Montblanc, Kaweco... all other are in the same circumstances regarding to vintage findings in my opinion, most need repair of any kind ( mostly sacs, gaskets, corks, pistons repair or with cap lip cracks) but the vast majority arrives with all parts correct and original.

 

Sheaffer, Parker, etc. did not suffer the harshness of war neither had their factories bombed. It is a well stablished fact that during war times and after, due to shortage of materials, MB had to assemble pens from whatever parts available even if they did not belong to a particular model or belonged to an earlier production. That, along with the destruction of MB archives by fire, explains why its is often so difficult to date a MB pen or to ascertain whether it originally came from the factory as you see it. Besides, after the war many pre-war MB pens were disassembled to sell the gold nibs and the surviving ones had to be fitted with new nibs of a later period.That is history, well known facts, so much so that some modern dealers take advantage of that state of confussion to assemble frankenpens with parts from different models an eras and say "well you know, the pen looks atypical because is a war pen". Of course not all vintage MB pens are in this situation.

Anyway, I do not want to derail this thread, which is about Parker. If you feel like we can continue this interesting discussion in another thread.